My son's teacher says he lacks poor impulse control

[Lorix2]

We had a rough year in 3rd grade at the end of the school year, she had to discipline him and 2 other boys just like him, quite often.

What's conflicting me is that I know he can:

*sit thru a movie/tv show
*complete any project that interests him involving tools, like helping to assemble a table, taking the chain off of his bike, helping his dad mow the lawn, firing up a compressor (of course under adult supervision).
* he shows love and affection to our dog
* showers his younger nieces with smiles and hugs
* shows affection to us too, but we have to go to him or ask him for a goodnight hug or kiss and he complies
* complete assignments at school, not always on time, but he will

What he cannot do or does and it's serious:

*go for long rides or he's irritable and nasty, will provoke me and his sister to the point I want to drop him off at the nearest police station!
* respect you're personal space - he'll bump into you, walk over and on you
* respect you're personal possessions (has to play with everything and anything)
* has to have control of situations, has to have the tv remote
* argumentative and nasty comments and yelling and crying fits
* he cannot be respectful, he created the word "rude" and when I give him a look to provoke a thank you to someone or any other kind of respectful answer he'll such say it with attitude, not sincerely. He'll even be rude to an adult
*his attitude is usually "I don't care!"

We've been dealing with for about 4 years now and though the teacher won't say she thinks he ADD or the like, she kept stressing "impulse control" is what he lacks. He will show remorse when reprimanded but will repeat the action the next day and doesn't seem to care how it affects the classroom or the teacher trying to do her job.

My DH and I have had lenghty discussions and talks with him, taken things away, confined him to his room until he could comply and it's all in vain - he just doesn't care. His grades are considered average, though he is extremely articulate and smart.

I let him sleep as long as he wants since we're on summer vacation, only because I'm guilty of wanting peace in the house until he wakes up. How can a mother have love a child so much and but not like him? I'm so torn and I feel terrible that maybe I didn't so such a great job raising a second child, my oldest is nothing like this.

I know I need to seek help for him. We did see a counselor one time who couldn't fit me in for the 2nd session for 2 months, I am not joking.

My friends all notice his behavior and asking us to get together less and less all the time, I would do that too if I were them.

Sorry this is so long winded, this really needed to be let out because my friends just don't understand or want to know what may be the problem. Am I now in for a lifetime of torment and anguish with my son? NOT ONE DAY goes by that I don't raise my voice or make him leave his older sister alone, or scream that my kitchen table is not where you leave you're remote control boats after taking them off of the lake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just want to smash them and their remotes, it's a just a constant lack of respect for me and I'm just so disgusted and depressed. I always knew instintively that if I had a boy, he'd be trouble and my instinct was dead on.

Thank you for reading this if you have made it this far, the tears are streaming and don't know what today will bring, but knowing you DIS'ers have some same experiences to share will give me hope and encouragement to move forward.

 

[slmcn66]

Wow, what a difficult situation. My heart goes out to you. I have three children, 2G and 1B. My son is 10 and sanwiched between his 8 & 12 yr old sis's. He too can have difficult behavior. We are now on our fourth counselor trying to find a good fit. This is the first one with which he has been willing to interact

He is usually well behaved in school and performs well academically, but is extremely sensitive and tough on himself. He takes the pressures of the outside world out on his family. He exhibits many of the behaviors that your son does at home. At times he can have explosive scary anger and usually feels bad about it once he has regained control

Over the years we have discovered that he has low blood sugar so eating the correct foods regularly has become important to help him have the ability to control himself. In addition schedule and sleep play another key role.

It sounds like it may be important for you to find a good support system. Good friends will be more understanding, shallow friends will not be patient, instead you may find they are critical. I find adults like that use your difficult situation to make themselves feel more important. They have the unique ability at pointing silent fingers and causing you to feel like a bad parent.

While some behavior may be a response to parenting, the bigger problem is something inside him. It may help you to seek counseling for yourself. I found it very beneficial not just myself, but the relationship with my husband. We were often at odds on parenting and discipline; couseling helped bring our styles together and in turn we saw impvovements with the children.

Kids bodies mature and change at different rates, but their temperment usually stays the same. So a challenging baby becomes a challenging toddler continuing into a preschooler. etc.

It has helped me to read as much as I can about children and development and speak to as many people/professionals as I can. Sometimes the lightbulb goes on and something helps. You are not alone. Many of us have challenging children that are we are just not sure how to handle. Sometimes I want to brood and feel sorry for myself. While it helps for the short term it doesn't make anything better in the longrun so I have learned to deep breath, take time for myself, and continue to try and love and embrace my life as a parent.

My son still brings toys to the dinner table. It still bothers me a bit, but I have decided I'd rather have him at the table eating dinner with us than fight over the toys. It seems they give him comfort.

 

[mdsouth]

Please don't be hard on yourself, for not liking the behaviors of your child. Here is a hug for you. You love your child, but are frustrated with his actions! This is a common feeling for all parents at one time or another. It is just that those of us with children with disorders of sometype have to live with these issues on a daily basis.

I agree with the first poster, you should seek out a group or counselor where you can share your feelings. I suggest you check with your local hospital, try finding one through their website if they have one. I am sure other DISers might have suggestions.

I think you should probably start the process of trying to find out what is causing your son to display this type of behavior.

Good Luck and Wishing you a pleasant day!

 

[arminnie]

I have no clue as to what you should do, but I do want to give you some hope.

Years ago I babysat for the worst child in the universe. I am 60 years old and this undeniably was the worst child I've ever come across. Totally out of control - even as a toddler.

When he started the 1st grade they ended up putting him behind a screen because he bothered the other kids so much! (decades ago).

They moved away when he was maybe 10 and I did not see him again until he was in his mid 20s. I could not believe this was the same boy. He was so well mannered, polite, well educated, etc, etc - just the perfect son.

I did not bring it up - although I was dying to know what had changed him. He brought it up - told me that when he was a teenager he decided that he was tired of getting into trouble and started applying himself. He ended up with two degrees and is very successful today as a father and husband.

I know the hell that he put his mother through - but it does have a very happy endng.

 

[tink_n_pooh]

OP- I really don't know how to help you but I can tell you that my nephew is the same way. I think he is the spawn of the devil He is starting kindergarten in Sept, I'm interested to see how that goes.

My niece (his little half-sister) is becoming the same way and she isn't even 2 yet

My brother and SIL wonder why we don't spend that much time with them...

Good luck and please if you find an answer let us know!

 

[disneygirl_wdw]

Sounds a lot like my younger brother. He started about when he started school. He would be pretty well behaved in school, but come home and be an entirely different person. He would struggle in school, though. He was diagnosed with a mild case of ADD in about 6th grade. His worst years were about 2nd grade through high school. Although he still acts out ocassionally, he is pretty good. You might want to see if there is another problem going on. After my brother has grown up we found out he was picked on a lot at school. Even the teachers would say rude things to him. He would then pick on me and my other sister at home. He does go to counciling with my parents. He has been going since about 3rd grade and we finally found someone that works, somewhat. Good luck!

 

[KirstenB]

I have 2 friends with children with multiple diagnoses. More to your situation though, they both have impulse issues, and I really don't think these kids can "see" the logical outcome that their behavior causes. FWIW, both parents had their kids evaluated for ADHD. Both kids tested positive, and as part of their therapy, they see a child psychologist. The psychologist works on behavioral therapy with them. The doctors have been great at helping their parents pick their batttles with the kids, and great at working with the kids on sensory and behavior issues. Both kids have sensory issues which contributes a lot to their discomfort in different surroundings.

Also, have you ever read "The Out-of-Sync Child?" It explains sensory issues in a lot of detail, and has helped me understand these 2 kids a lot better. Anyway, I can feel your frustration loud and clear. I'd be frustrated too. I hope you can find someone to help your son.

 

[Goofyluver]

My son has several medical diagnosis. And some of the same issues as you DS...but not as behaviorally involved.

I am not offering a diagnosis or anything like that. BUT...as someone who also works with children with many of these issues, I would say the following as both a professional and as a momma:

Get an OT eval as many of his behaviors seem to be sensory seeking. The above post recommending the book is wonderful...and it describes my son to a T...except he is sensory avoiding.

Get a counseling eval as well. This can address implulse control and the like.

These can be done through the school and/or through private companies.

I am sorry for your frustration and I completely understand. My DS is 11, although cognitively is about 7 or so. When he throws his "fits"...I shut down sometimes. It can be very challenging. Sometimes...and I know I can say this here without judgment...I wonder how we have both survived this long. And it's a miracle on the bad days that I don't strangle him or myself.

BUT...these children are also the most rewarding to parent. Because once they "get" something, whether it be social, academic, whatever...they are so proud and wonderful. Good luck!

 

[My2Cinderellas]

Another good book to explore is "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. One thing I like is that it doesn't focus on a diagnosis, but on strategies for successful interaction. This is the book my DD's psychologist recommended we start with.

 

[DawnM]

I am reading this thread with interest.

We will be putting our 9 year old in school for the first time this fall. He has been homeschooled so far. He went to full time daycare and preschool and it was suggested that he get help then. We have had behavior therapy for 3 years and finally it was determined that he is somewhere on the ADHD-Autism spectrum. (we already knew that!)

I am VERY nervous about how he will do in school. He is the kid who will throw a FIT if you tell him to close his math book when he is over-focused on his math and is NOT finished! I have talked to the school already, but I think they have no idea what he is really like.

We are working very hard to prepare him this summer. I start work (teaching) in 2 weeks so it is coming up very soon! I wish I could be at his school, but I am secondary and he is elem.

Anyway, keep the thoughts coming.

dawn

 

[Lorix2]

To everyone here, I am the OP.

I sincerely appreciate you sharing you're experiences with me and I have read every post.

Something I forgot to mention, not sure how much it matters really, but he was suspended after christmas last year for this behavior too many times even after numerous warnings by his teacher, she had had it. I did the walk of shame into and out of the school that day and I cried for days. Can you imagine you're 9 y/o suspended?? That got his attention, but it was short lived at home.

I am going to read both books two of you have suggested until I can get together with his principal when school starts and ask for help.

Boredom is our enemy, like today, he's very quick to argue and complain because we have nothing going on and it's too hot to be outside. He's just not a happy person in general I guess, my friend with a son dx with ADHD says she can see that with him too, unsure of himself and unable to make and keep friends, but bonds with the rowdy kids because those are the ones who accept him. It tears me up inside.


goofyluver - what is an "OT eval"?

 

[Goofyluver]

Occupational Therapy Evaluation.

 

[fakereadhed]

Something I forgot to mention, not sure how much it matters really, but he was suspended after christmas last year for this behavior too many times even after numerous warnings by his teacher, she had had it. I did the walk of shame into and out of the school that day and I cried for days. Can you imagine you're 9 y/o suspended?? That got his attention, but it was short lived at home.

My heart goes out to you. I am the mom of a difficult child with several diagnoses, all or none of which may be correct. It is very frustrating, and sometimes a diagnosis may not even be an answer because you are still left dealing with the problem, and there are no answer books that automatically come with a diagnosis.

I agree with the person that said those are sensory-seeking behaviors. You may want to seek out an Occupational Therapist that can offer suggestions for alternative behaviors that won't impact others. My son(not my difficult child-my easier one!)used to bite and bang his head as a baby, but we give him "heavy work" to do which has eliminated the other behavior. We let him fill a backpack with cans from the kitchen or heavy toys and he wears it around the house. Or we give him balls filled with sand to carry and throw in a basket on the other side of the room. You would want to have an OT make a plan for your son, but just wanted to let you know what something like that looks like.

As far as the suspension goes, that is a good reason to get your son evaluated at school so he can maybe get an IEP(Individualized Education Plan). My daughter has problems understanding cause and effect. If she does something wrong, she needs to learn from it. Suspending her does not teach her why the behavior was wrong and what to do instead. Detention doesn't help either because the punishment comes so far after the behavior and isn't related to what she did. So in her IEP we have alternative plans for behavior situations as they arise. They would have a hard time suspending her the way the IEP is written.

It is really hard to deal with a difficult child. But you are not a bad mom, and he isn't a bad kid either. My heart goes out to both of you.


Just FYI for those who won't understand I have nothing against punishing kids if it is actually a deterrent for bad behavior. They can suspend my other neurotypical DD all they want! But if the point is to change the behavior so my kid can behave better they need to change the punishment to fit my kid.

 

[Selket]

Of course we aren't doctors here (usually) on the Disney boards but everything you described reminded me of a condition that sometimes goes along with ADHD called Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD). There is more about it here: http://add.about.com/cs/comorbidcondition/a/odd.htm
You could google it too. One of my kids was dx'd with ADD (not hyper or oppositional - just attention issues) a few months ago so that is why I'm familiar with it.

Our regular pedi could also diagnose this too (she had questionaires for the teachers, etc that I had to return to her).

I think if your child is in public school (or private either I guess) - I know you can ask the school to hold an evaluation meeting based on what you described. The school will do the testing for ODD (and other things) and come back with recommendations. You could get your own outside evals done too but this might be the easiest (cheapest if that is an issue) way of getting help right when school starts. I would think your child would qualify for an IEP or 504 plan based on what you've said - and the school should give support with counseling, etc. You would need your pedi involved if medication is an option.

Here are the symptoms of ODD which can also include ADD/ADHD type symptoms with it:

It is characterized by consistent disobedience, hostile or defiant behavior toward authority figures. The pattern of behavior must last for more than six months and must be compared to the behaviors of other children of the same age.

Some symptoms include:

* Argumentative
* Easily loses temper
* Blames others for own mistakes
* Difficulty making friends or sustaining friendships
* Often angry
* Uses vindictive behavior toward others
* Easily annoyed
* Defies adults and authority figures
* Often in trouble in school

 

[Christine43]

I agree with everyone here suggesting an evaluation but I would suggest an outside eval. I'm only saying this because in '06 my twins had school evals. that took us nowhere and they just had wonderful, involved evals. at a hospital here that included educational needs, OT, PT, psych and speech. There can be real biological reasons for your sons behavior and finding the root of the problem can be a real Godsend. I would get a neurologist to take a look at him first. Get a referral from the Pediatrician and ask the neuro. for an outside eval referral.
These evals. can get him the accommodations and the extra help (OT i.e.) in and out of school. I feel for you and I truly do understand. I have four kids and three have are on the autistic spectrum so I am very familiar with oppositional behavior from my sons and how taxing it is. But, I do love the way you firstly talk about his positive behavior and his kindness. He must be a great kid and I hope you can find all the help he needs. Good luck.

 

[fakereadhed]

I agree with everyone here suggesting an evaluation but I would suggest an outside eval. I'm only saying this because in '06 my twins had school evals. that took us nowhere and they just had wonderful, involved evals. at a hospital here that included educational needs, OT, PT, psych and speech.

I agree. But if you have the school do evals first, if you disagree the school may have to pay for outside evals which is helpful since they aren't usually covered and are quite costly(in the thousands). And even if you have your outside evals the school can say these needs don't qualify as educational needs. There are also ways to get the school to acknowledge your child's problems if they are less than helpful. Our school system was less than helpful(I have two that receive services)and they seemed to not want to provide them due to budget issues. If anyone needs tips on getting the school to help pm me. We have been there!

 

[lunapnp]

LoriX2...I felt like I was somewhat reading a story about my DD 11 when I read your post. I know all too well the problems you are describing with one exception...my daughter would not behave this way at school. DD was/still is at times VERY aggressive and argumentative with family members. She has taken her frustration out on me, dad, sis...physically...more times than I can count. We have had her in counseling/therapy for about a year now. We have tried different medications and have found one that really helps with her mood swings. I even asked her psychiatrist one day if he thought she was bipolar or just had poor impulse control (I have a family history of bipolar). He said at this point, he was leaning more towards impulse control. I know some people will disagree with medicating...but my husband and I were at the point that we couldn't handle her any longer. We had been battling with her for well over 2-3 years. No amount of discipline, threats, etc., would deter her behavior. When she "lost it", she would have rages for 20-30 minutes and then not remember what she actually got mad about to begin with.
Like others have mentioned, I would start with some evaluations. I would try to get help from the school system to start with. But, I don't believe that just because you disagree with what their evaluation shows that the school will pay for you to have an outside evaluation. If you don't agree, then you have to pay for your own outside evaluation. As a nurse practitioner, I can tell you that I have seen several patients that have had evaluations through the school system, but most don't receive much help after that. Most school systems will tell you that they don't have the funding, etc., for the testing but they do. From what you describe, I can see some tendencies for ADD, but it's so much like what my DD displays it's almost funny. My DD does have ADD, too, but we can't treat her for that (she has other medical issues, too, and we've tried ADD meds in the past but can't find any that work well with her other issues). As far as oppositional defiant disorder, he may have some of those symptoms...but not some of the Major ones that psych people look at such as stealing and harming animals, etc. I'm not saying this to say what others have posted is not true...because it is. I'm saying this as a parent of a child with disabilities...don't get too overwhelmed with what other people say and other's opinions. Go for professional evaluations and then go from there. With today's internet society...if you're like me...I research EVERYTHING!!! Sometimes I jump to conclusions with my own DD based on what I read online. My husband gets so mad at me!!! Just take it one day at time...especially until you can get more formal testing and help.

 

[Goofyluver]

Like others have mentioned, I would start with some evaluations. I would try to get help from the school system to start with. But, I don't believe that just because you disagree with what their evaluation shows that the school will pay for you to have an outside evaluation. If you don't agree, then you have to pay for your own outside evaluation.

I also work for the schools as an SLP. Federal law states that if you disagree with an evaluation performed by the school system, you have the right to have an independent evaluation performed by an outside evaluator (often one who needs to be approved by the school district). If the outside evaluation differs from the school's evaluation, then the school district is liable to pay you for any out of pocket costs that you may have for that evaluation.

Our jobs as parents are to advocate for our children. We must start somewhere. It took me almost 5 years to get a diagnosis for my son. At the beginning of my journey, I began as many parents do...with information finding and research. This is the place that the OP appears to be at this point in her journey.

Having my child is the most rewarding part of my life. I can look back, and place myself in the same frame of mind as the OP....when I was scared and needed answers and help. I now feel like I can help others, by sharing what I have learned as the parent of a child with disabilities.

To the OP...good luck on your journey. And there is help out there for everyone!

 

[Lorix2]

Hi again,

OP here. You're support here is more than I will probably ever get emotionally and I'm so, so grateful. It's a relief to feel that I have not failed him or have been a lazy parent. I really do feel worse for him at times, becaues I do know he's a great kid and when he's feeling included and engaged in something, you want to be around him because he really is very funny and we laugh alot, even his older sister cannot stop herself even if she's mad at him. (which is usually a few times a day) From the time he was 6 or so, he started bossing kids around and being possessive, easily angered and I couldn't understand how MY child who had an older sibling who would have given you the last Barbie tiara on the planet at that age, could not be as generous and kind as her.

Selket - that description of ODD describes my son 100%

Yes, I never saw that therapist again and was shocked when the appt secretary told me the date, I just said never mind and got nothing out of the last 50 minutes we had just spent in the office.

I have taken notes from all of you're posts and will reread most of them too.

From the bottom of my heart - I thank you all and hope you and you're children will continue to thrive in therapy/meds and life will bring good things to you.

I will go to his school the first week and ask to speak to the principal who knows him and is great with him, and start this ball rolling. This will be the most challenging thimg I will ever have to do, but I'm ready, I have to be, I need to be.

 

[slmcn66]

I will go to his school the first week and ask to speak to the principal who knows him and is great with him, and start this ball rolling. This will be the most challenging thimg I will ever have to do, but I'm ready, I have to be, I need to be.

Going to speak with the principal is a great idea. Consider going within the next week or two before school starts, you may find it helpful to discuss the teacher he will have as well as a friend or two with which he is comfortable. It may help if he gets the opportunity to meet his teacher prior to the first day.

My thoughts are with you. I try and embrace all the funny times, it helps me remain calm when my son is melting down.