New Definition of Rental Activity?

[Hubalorian]

I can guarantee you they are commenting but under burner accounts or just surreptitiously. They are the people arguing hard for rentals. No average dvc owner is on here arguing for rentals.

I am personally fine with a few rentals a year if needed. It’s when you log in to Facebook and see one person listing 19 reservations for rent at the hardest to book rooms at very popular travel times that irritates me.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

As of right now, they are correct. However, we shall see if things change moving forward

No, any attorney will tell you that Disney has the legal right to shut down rentals any time even under the old POS. I’ve asked 2 attorneys I know about this. This is Disney resale market bullying Disney publicly. They would be better off flying under the radar. Not smart at all on their account.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I am personally fine with a few rentals a year if needed. It’s when you log in to Facebook and see one person listing 19 reservations for rent at the hardest to book rooms at very popular travel times that irritates me.

I agree. I could care less if people rent. It is the systematic large scale renting that is a problem.

 

[DonMacGregor]

There is this, posted after the new language was published as part of the CFW declarations…

https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/blog/is-renting-my-dvc-points-authorized/#:~:text=DVC Rentals Are Authorized&text=The section titled Multi-site,of the first 20 reservations.”

But, curiously, it makes zero mention of the new language, and uses the old language to support the freedom to rent points.

 

[crisi]

I'm not sure that we are living in quite that much of a surveillance society yet, at least in the US. I don't know how any software would know who has been to restaurants together, unless the smartphone companies like Apple are selling a breathtaking amount of location data, showing that (for example) your and your friend's iPhones were both at the same Applebees for 90 minutes. And I think it's similarly unlikely that the airlines would be selling passenger lists to enable software to determine who has taken flights together. As for the verification that you sometimes have to do with a credit card purchase, I think that's more to do with an unusually large dollar amount as opposed to who the item is going to, as it's not uncommon for me to have to do that for fairly large purchases, even if they are going to my own home.

They are, and I've used the software - and 15 years ago when the software wasn't nearly as evolved. The thing is (as the salesperson explained to me) that a lot of these companies are eager participants. An airline doesn't want you to buy a ticket on a credit card that isn't yours.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I agree. I could care less if people rent. It is the systematic large scale renting that is a problem.

Exactly.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

My understanding is that right now it only applies to CFW - Maybe that changes in the future.

I know,
but my question is still valid…. The cabin open in July
so do we see the first thread in oct ? Nov?

 

[GoingSince1990]

It will be interesting to see if the DVC guides selling CFW points start to dial back on the “don’t worry about ever not being able to use your points, you can always rent them, and that is explicitly allowed” part of their sales pitch which has been very common when selling the older resorts.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

It will be interesting to see if the DVC guides selling CFW points start to dial back on the “don’t worry about ever not being able to use your points, you can always rent them, and that is explicitly allowed” part of their sales pitch which has been very common when selling the older resorts.

I think they may hang their hat on "frequent occupancy by others."

i.e., you can still rent some points outside of family members so long as you don't have "frequent occupancy by others."

The question is where the threshold is. Is that one rental a year..... several rentals in one year, followed by a long string of owner-occupied use?

Some are going to push the limits, thinking they will never get caught cause that's what our society believes these days. and we will soon see the first " BEWARE DVC CFW RENTAL CANCELED" thread

 

[heynowirv]

To me renting is fine when needed, but what get's me peeved is when I see someone who can't even IM yet, but having 1000 points to rent because they bought a Gold Sponsorship.

 

[Ursula J]

So how long before we see the first “My DVC Rental was canceled“ thread?

anyone have any guesses?

This is exactly why I just booked a hotel room at Wilderness for December instead of trying to get a DVC rental. It's obviously included in the language that they can (will) just cancel reservations, and I can't handle the stress.

 

[Genie+]

An ownership interest should only be purchased for personal use and enjoyment by Members and based upon its value as a vacation experience. Ownership interests should not be purchased for resale or rental, as an investment opportunity, or with any expectation of achieving income, capital appreciation, or any other financial return or valuable benefit, including any tax benefit.

^This is written on the bottom of every single page on the DVC site. Unescapable.



Occasional rentals. Ok. But how does a renter know if they are getting a legit reservation or one through an owner that is conducting a business with their DVC ownership interests. If someone consistently rents out more points than they ever use, that does not seem like the intention was ever for personal use. What kind of use does that make it?

I think DVC has plenty of room if they want to act.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

This is exactly why I just booked a hotel room at Wilderness for December instead of trying to get a DVC rental. It's obviously included in the language that they can (will) just cancel reservations, and I can't handle the stress.

And this is exactly what they’re hoping for. Create uncertainty and stress so the easiest decision is to go direct booking with Disney. I can’t say I blame them.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

I can’t wait for Disney to crack down on renters. I have no problem with people occasionally renting out their points, but there are commercial entities who manipulate the system and make it harder for regular owners to book what they want. It’s not a case of who cares who uses the points. These commercial entities do not behave as regular point owners and make the system sticky and clunky.

Being able to rent points if an owner has some they can't use rather than just losing them via expiration makes sense.

Buying hundreds or thousands of extra points for the purpose of renting them for profit seems to me the very definition of "commercial use."

I don't want to see owners impacted negatively, but I do think that cracking down on rentals (especially mass rentals by web-based businesses) could have a net positive impact for owners by improving availability.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

To me renting is fine when needed, but what get's me peeved is when I see someone who can't even IM yet, but having 1000 points to rent because they bought a Gold Sponsorship.

So just to be clear, if a gold membership can IM you’re ok with that…..

However, I understand what you are saying,
Recently there was a poster with about 45 or 65 total post ,

And 9000 points to rent at 7 separate resorts …

I think that is where Disney is going with this …

I have 4 separate resort 3 separate contracts,

I think I done with renting,

It worked well for me,

But now I want to use my points

But I can see why members and Disney has had enough

 

[Genie+]

Do contracts prior to CFW really need to be grandfathered? I don’t think so because every bit of documentation consistently states DVC is for personal use, over and over and over again. Saying renting is permitted is not the same as saying renting out is an expectation of ownership. Owners/buyers have all signed and agreed to commercial use being prohibited.

DVC let this grey area exist for a long time though. Stricter enforcement could come quickly, slowly or not at all.

 

[JackosinDIS]

Do contracts prior to CFW really need to be grandfathered? I don’t think so because every bit of documentation consistently states DVC is for personal use, over and over and over again. Saying renting is permitted is not the same as saying renting out is an expectation of ownership. Owners/buyers have all signed and agreed to commercial use being prohibited.

DVC let this grey area exist for a long time though. Stricter enforcement could come quickly, slowly or not at all.

I think we all agree that commercial use has always been prohibited.

The difference between the existing documents and CFW documents is that DVC now has sole discretion to decide whether or not a use is ‘commercial’. That is a big difference if Owners are not allowed to question a decision or provide explanations / require DVC to justify why a decision is reasonable.

For that reason, given it is arguably a ‘material’ change, it could not be retrospectively applied to other resorts.

But who knows what they will decide to do! It’s all guess work until they actually decide to dish out some consequences to owners…. Maybe they will decide the tighter rental restrictions only apply to resale owners

 

[Ursula J]

And this is exactly what they’re hoping for. Create uncertainty and stress so the easiest decision is to go direct booking with Disney. I can’t say I blame them.

It's hard! I have to go through a place like David's in order for my credit card to insure the trip in the event of cancellation (they won't insure something I find here or on FB). But as a consumer, I have no way of knowing if my rental is from a shell corporation, a for-profit owner, or one of the good guys--the DVC owners I see here who might occasionally rent out points or confirmed stays because they just can't use them. So let's say Disney decides to clamp down on LLCs renting out CFW this summer. That LLC might be the one offering points I rented for my beloved Boulder Ridge. Poof! My reservation gets cancelled. And yes, I could buy DVC but I really need to wait until the kiddo is done with college.

 

[Rex1993]

I agree that this may be the first step in Disney taking this in house and I’m all for it. I tried renting once and it was total brain drain. Too much time spent to earn a thousand or so taxable dollars. If there was literally a button click on the website where I could choose to either bank or give back the points to DVC to be inventoried, that would be great by me.

 

[Genie+]

Maybe they will decide the tighter rental restrictions only apply to resale owners

Lol I could see it ending up to appear that way. People wheeling and dealing in many rentals likely didn’t buy those hundreds or thousands points direct. Cuts in to the profit - cha ching!