Norwegian Cruise Lines CEO: "Enough is Enough"

[TestingH2O]

Well, they cut back on WDW Christmas too (no castle lights/resort gingerbread houses/candlelight processional etc). I could see them doing some light Christmas decor and themed coffees and such and calling it a day on the cruise line. And before anyone says people won’t pay for a reduced experience... they will.

I heard that. But aren’t they still starting that decor in early November? That’s still 2 months of payoff for the work not 2 weeks.

 

[mom4fun]

I'm standing up for the 911,000 who have died from covid-19 and their families. I find the comments reprehensible.
And European cruises....not going so well. https://thepointsguy.com/news/croisieurope-river-cruise-covid-outbreak/

Are you aware that 650,000 people die of the flu every year and that is with a vaccine? We cruised then, we didn’t wear masks, we didn’t social distance. Is that an acceptable number of deaths, from a virus? If not, then should we never cruise again?

 

[wombat_5606]

NVM

 

[BartmanLA]

Are you aware that 650,000 people die of the flu every year and that is with a vaccine? We cruised then, we didn’t wear masks, we didn’t social distance. Is that an acceptable number of deaths, from a virus? If not, then should we never cruise again?

You failed in your comparison in that flu isn't as contagious as CoVid-19 is, it's a VIRUS that is spread from personal contact, the likelihood of catching the flu around someone that might have it is much much lower than with Covid-19.

 

[mmmears]

Are you aware that 650,000 people die of the flu every year and that is with a vaccine? We cruised then, we didn’t wear masks, we didn’t social distance. Is that an acceptable number of deaths, from a virus? If not, then should we never cruise again?

Where did you get that number? I think it's closer to 50k (+/- 20k in any given year) in the US. There is no comparison. Last flu season, 2018-2019 it was 34,157.

Since there is no vaccine, and because humans don't have any immunity at all to this novel virus, it makes sense to take a pause and not spread it around the world, especially to countries that don't have all the resources they need to fight it. Nobody is saying we should never cruise again.

 

[Snowwhyt]

Travel bans and government conspiracy theories aside, I cannot imagine them doing all the work to decorate for just 2-3 Christmas cruises. That makes no sense.

They take it down in a day or two. Aside from the gingerbread house. And can put it up in nearly a single night. They keep it up for an entire New Year’s Eve cruise. So maybe they could get out most but hold off on all decorations? I’ve been on Thanksgiving and New Year’s process with the full decoration.

 

[MickeyWaffles]

Are you aware that 650,000 people die of the flu every year and that is with a vaccine? We cruised then, we didn’t wear masks, we didn’t social distance. Is that an acceptable number of deaths, from a virus? If not, then should we never cruise again?

Um, the flu is typically spread AFTER symptoms present. Symptomatic spread.

Covid can be spread WITHOUT symptoms or before symptoms present. Asymptomatic spread.

THAT is one of the most important reasons to wear a mask and social distance and what makes covid more contagious. People among us who do not know they have it who could be spreading it.

How are we 6 months into covid and people are still trying to compare this to the flu? Unbelievable. It is different on so many levels - aside from how contagious it is, and how deadly it is, there are the long term effects they are seeing in people who have recovered (heart damage, eye damage, etc.)
There are so many factors that set covid apart from the seasonal flu.

Also, no clue where you got that 650k number.

 

[disneygeek401]

Um, the flu is typically spread AFTER symptoms present. Symptomatic spread.

Covid can be spread WITHOUT symptoms or before symptoms present. Asymptomatic spread.

THAT is one of the most important reasons to wear a mask and social distance and what makes covid more contagious. People among us who do not know they have it who could be spreading it.

How are we 6 months into covid and people are still trying to compare this to the flu? Unbelievable. It is different on so many levels - aside from how contagious it is, and how deadly it is, there are the long term effects they are seeing in people who have recovered (heart damage, eye damage, etc.)
There are so many factors that set covid apart from the seasonal flu.

Also, no clue where you got that 650k number.

I believe the 650k number is a high end range of annual flu deaths globally. With the totals coming from the WHO

 

[spiders]

It's truly amazing how many people can tell someone who lost their income that it's no big deal. Are you personally going to help pay their bills?

I too can sit at home, telling someone else who is now months behind on their rent or mortgage, that it's no big deal while I have absolutely no financial obligation to their issues.

 

[mousefan73]

I believe the 650k number is a high end range of annual flu deaths globally. With the totals coming from the WHO

Correct-- It's part of their estimate..

https://www.who.int/news-room/detai...ory-diseases-linked-to-seasonal-flu-each-year
Just learned there are also different scoring models that give estimates… +/- many.
scary thing is the flue 1. has a vaccine and 2. has many treatement options, yet so many die from it a year… I think also from the WHO perspective- healthcare general plays a role here, ability/affortability of vaccines and care... i wouldnt want a serious flu in a 3rd world country. or aný illness..

 

[mousefan73]

It's truly amazing how many people can tell someone who lost their income that it's no big deal. Are you personally going to help pay their bills?

I too can sit at home, telling someone else who is now months behind on their rent or mortgage, that it's no big deal while I have absolutely no financial obligation to their issues.

I think many people have the luxury of having an income, healthcare and live in nice large homes where they bunker down, watch Netflix and have groceries delivered and slow things down, discover Yoga etc.. for the next year… Instead of vacationing, let's take that cash and get the pool! ( true story).. And over on the CB, some have commented they have CHOSEN to up their job to stay home to either homeschool or watch their kids during remote learning. That is a luxury..

Many people are hurting… very bad.. worst is seeing on the financiall "oh the market is showig recovery, things are not so bad.." well Wallstreet is NOT Mainstreet. Never has been, nor will and especially now one sees the huge disparity.

I know many who are tied up financially in the travel and tourism industries.. also meeting and conventions.. it is devastating. I colleague has a friend who owns his own contruction company that manufactors and builds convention stands. His family and friends are gravely concerned about his mental health. His healthy company is dead.. He does not know how he will get back on his feet.. has already started filings. Conventions and all the business that goes with it have been cancelled far until 2021... No goverment support will help any business long term. I know pilots who invested over 100 G in flight school and are low on the pole.. they are highly qualified in a field that shows no promise.. Imagine going and paying for Med school and then finding out Doctors are no longer needed…. Your smart, got into a hard to get field and are told you are no longer needed.. at 28... Imagine what that does to one mentally..

 

[KashasMom]

It's truly amazing how many people can tell someone who lost their income that it's no big deal. Are you personally going to help pay their bills?

I too can sit at home, telling someone else who is now months behind on their rent or mortgage, that it's no big deal while I have absolutely no financial obligation to their issues.

That's pretty much how it is with everything these days. Most people don't care until if affects them personally.

Sad thing now is that it is only going to get worse for many people.

 

[MickeyWaffles]

It's truly amazing how many people can tell someone who lost their income that it's no big deal. Are you personally going to help pay their bills?

I too can sit at home, telling someone else who is now months behind on their rent or mortgage, that it's no big deal while I have absolutely no financial obligation to their issues.

Who said it was no big deal? You’re making an awful lot of assumptions here. And you know next to nothing about the situation of others posting here. Covid has hit many other industries other than travel and leisure and many people here have been impacted significantly.

1. How many CM deaths would be a trade off for you? And how many guests? If the cruise lines resume before they are confident they can prevent an outbreak, this is a potential reality that you must be willing to accept. So, how many?

2. The future of cruising at all with Disney will be impacted significantly if there is an outbreak on board. Trust in Disney cruising will be lost. Unfortunately, the people willing to take the risk to cruise during a pandemic won’t keep DCL alive alone. You need mass public trust. One outbreak/quarantine, they’re done.

3. What are the costs of operating the ship with quarantined guests on board for weeks? How many ships may have to do this? This is a reality. There will be cases and there will be spread if they resume before they can prevent an outbreak.

I am devastated for the DCL crew. Devastated. Just because I don’t think it is safe to resume cruising does NOT mean I don’t care about them. I do care. I care about their health and safety and Disney providing a safe workplace for them at sea. If DCL resumes before they can prevent an outbreak, the long term impact to the future of DCL will be massive.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

We’re all aware of that, thank you. So once again, no harm in ending CDC ban then if according to you they have nowhere to go. Where the cruise lines have the ability to port is not the CDC’s problem, end the ban and let the cruise lines deal with that problem.

I mean honestly, I think the cruise ships could EASILY open their own islands and that satisfies the single port of call requirement. I doubt the Bahamas would stand in the way if DCL said they would open Castaway Cay with the safety measures they have put in place, and using all crew from the ship + a limited crew from the Bahamas that would remain social distanced in 2 month stints (for example) while they work on the island. Basically, you treat the castaway crew as being on a ship - a few months on where they are housed separately from the general public, and a few months off after a 10 day quarantine. This is not that complicated. This goes for basically all the lines that have their own island.

As for the CDC... last I checked they allow smoking. We know for a fact that smoking kills you. But we allow people to do it at their own risk. The CDC really just needs to say "cruise at your own risk" and back off and stop being hypocrites.

 

[tvguy]

Are you aware that 650,000 people die of the flu every year and that is with a vaccine? We cruised then, we didn’t wear masks, we didn’t social distance. Is that an acceptable number of deaths, from a virus? If not, then should we never cruise again?

The cruise industry is very experienced in sanitation regarding norovirus and flu. Covid-19 is the virus that requires masks and social distancing . But you make a good point, if more people got a flu shot our death rate would drop. And cruises have been canceled due to both flu and norovirus. Carnival shutdown three ships last year due to a flu outbreak on cruises in Mexico in 2019. And Royal Caribbean also canceled cruises out of Port Canaveral in January 2019 but in that case it was norovius. And those ships had less than 100 ill on board. One of the covid-19 outbreaks make 700 people sick. So Covid-19 spreads far faster in the cruise ship environment

 

[TiggerBouncy]

First CDC doesn't have any authority over anything, anywhere. They advise.

First, the CDC ardently disagrees with you. They happen to have the advantage of being right.

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutlawsregulationsquarantineisolation.html
Federal Law
The federal government derives its authority for isolation and quarantine from the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution.

Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states.

The authority for carrying out these functions on a daily basis has been delegated to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

 

[T & R]

Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states.

The authority for carrying out these functions on a daily basis has been delegated to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

That's interesting, "and between states".

 

[spiders]

Who said it was no big deal? You’re making an awful lot of assumptions here. And you know next to nothing about the situation of others posting here. Covid has hit many other industries other than travel and leisure and many people here have been impacted significantly.

1. How many CM deaths would be a trade off for you? And how many guests? If the cruise lines resume before they are confident they can prevent an outbreak, this is a potential reality that you must be willing to accept. So, how many?

2. The future of cruising at all with Disney will be impacted significantly if there is an outbreak on board. Trust in Disney cruising will be lost. Unfortunately, the people willing to take the risk to cruise during a pandemic won’t keep DCL alive alone. You need mass public trust. One outbreak/quarantine, they’re done.

3. What are the costs of operating the ship with quarantined guests on board for weeks? How many ships may have to do this? This is a reality. There will be cases and there will be spread if they resume before they can prevent an outbreak.

I am devastated for the DCL crew. Devastated. Just because I don’t think it is safe to resume cruising does NOT mean I don’t care about them. I do care. I care about their health and safety and Disney providing a safe workplace for them at sea. If DCL resumes before they can prevent an outbreak, the long term impact to the future of DCL will be massive.

Everyone knows next to nothing about the personal situation of others posting here except for their own situation.

1) How many deaths are acceptable to you? I hate to break it to you but people die everyday. I want those who are at highest risk to take the highest precautions. But death is part of life. How many people can be financially devastated? How many people would you like to see lose their homes? What is the acceptable number for you? I have and continue going to work because I enjoy things like food & shelter which I find necessary to actually live and I don't need anyone else trying to "save" me by destroying my finances.

2) I'm pretty sure Disney and every other business is fully aware of the importance of public trust. That's the thing about public trust...if you don't feel comfortable then you don't go. But it's not up for you to tell others what to do because you have their best interests at heart.

3) Not your problem. That's for the cruise lines to decide their costs and how many ships they can safely operate.

You can say you are devastated all you want for the crew but that means absolutely nothing. Your devastation doesn't pay the bills and you're not doing them any favors by advocating for them to not even have a choice if they can go back to work or for an employer to even attempt to reopen.

 

[T & R]

1. How many CM deaths would be a trade off for you? And how many guests?

Zero, that is a decision the CM or guest would make on their own. Covid is not a surprise to anyone now, so we are all aware of the risks. Why does nobody question that of non-essential land based Covid spreading businesses that are infecting many hundreds of thousands or possibly millions? For one example Florida bars are open as of today, how are they essential? Why do you not question how many lives of bar employees or bar patrons we need to trade off? We need to end the hypocrisy of demonizing cruising and looking the other way regarding literally everything else. If we were truly serious about stopping or slowing Covid, wouldn't it make sense to go after more than just one single type of business (the cruise business). Viruses don't work that way and only infect one type of business. Any justification you could throw out for justifying land based proven Covid spreading businesses to remain open you could justify for cruising. CM's are aware of the risk and may or may not choose to work onboard. Just like any other non-essential employee in the world who chooses to go to work in today's environment.

It's not our place to say that cruising is too dangerous for CM's or guests but it's ok for the bag boy at our grocery store to work and be exposed to thousands of people a day or the CM and guests at a theme park are good to go. Those are individual decisions that can be decided by those individual employees or those individual guests, just like the millions who are already doing it every day in this country in non-essential land based businesses. Many millions of Americans have contracted Covid without cruising, so cruise ban clearly was not the route we needed to take in the fight.

 

[spiders]

Zero, that is a decision the CM or guest would make on their own. Covid is not a surprise to anyone now, so we are all aware of the risks. Why does nobody question that of non-essential land based Covid spreading businesses that are infecting many hundreds of thousands or possibly millions? For one example Florida bars are open as of today, how are they essential? Why do you not question how many lives of bar employees or bar patrons we need to trade off? We need to end the hypocrisy of demonizing cruising and looking the other way regarding literally everything else. If we were truly serious about stopping or slowing Covid, wouldn't it make sense to go after more than just one single type of business (the cruise business). Viruses don't work that way and only infect one type of business. Any justification you could throw out for justifying land based proven Covid spreading businesses to remain open you could justify for cruising. CM's are aware of the risk and may or may not choose to work onboard. Just like any other non-essential employee in the world who chooses to go to work in today's environment.

It's not our place to say that cruising is too dangerous for CM's or guests but it's ok for the bag boy at our grocery store to work and be exposed to thousands of people a day or the CM and guests at a theme park are good to go. Those are individual decisions that can be decided by those individual employees or those individual guests, just like the millions who are already doing it every day in this country in non-essential land based businesses. Many millions of Americans have contracted Covid without cruising, so cruise ban clearly was not the route we needed to take in the fight.

It's perfectly cool for essentials to do whatever it is they are doing to help facilitate the ability for others to stay home (or at least say they are). But if that bag boy who just spent 8 hours in a grocery store now wants to go catch a movie at the theater then it's that last 2 hours which is really the tipping point and he's just completely irresponsible and reckless.