Over 3,500 people quarantined on Diamond Princess cruise

[QueenElinor]

Another question I have is about those folks who've already tested negative on this ship. Did they all leave the ship ?
As long as they don't know what the source of the exposure is there is no end to this until they're all off the ship or ill. The people who are due to end the quarantine in a few days really haven't been quarantined. It would be a huge mistake to let them go.

It would be worse than the Westerdam, i think.

 

[mmmears]

All I keep thinking is he must be very wealthy if he's able to remain abroad indefinitely on his own dime. The US Cits who evacuated don't have to pay for their flight or their quarantine. And yes they lose time at work but hopefully their companies understand that they are doing what the US Govt is telling them to. Mr. Smith must be independently wealthy.

While I, too, think he choose poorly, I'm not sure it's a money issue. I know a couple who were on a US chartered evac plane out of Cairo a few years back (Arab Spring uprising, I think it was called). They were tourists, not there working, and they received quite a large bill from the US government for that flight.

 

[Karin1984]

I think time will tell what the better decision was. If he is happy with his decision, then that's enough.

 

[FigmentSpark]

My theory is that one of the methods of transmission is from the clean sheets being delivered. HE washers don’t get hot enough to kill super bugs. There was a story not too long ago about an outbreak of Kleb (gastrointestinal hospital born super bug) in a German maternity ward. Turned out the sheets weren’t being washed at a hot enough temp and just kept cycling the bacteria to new unsuspecting patients including newborns.
Hot water and hand sansi.

I've always wondered just how clean things get in the HE machines. Sometimes it doesn't even seem like water touched all the clothes. No spin cycle can be so good that it dries an item completely.

 

[smmco]

I think time will tell what the better decision was. If he is happy with his decision, then that's enough.

None of his know his financial or personal situation. Although I doubt he would have chosen to stay if he didn’t have the financial means to do so.

Another poster referred to him as stupid. I’m not sure how he could possibly determine that at this point. Like you said time will tell what the better decision was.

 

[Lisa F]

All I keep thinking is he must be very wealthy if he's able to remain abroad indefinitely on his own dime. The US Cits who evacuated don't have to pay for their flight or their quarantine. And yes they lose time at work but hopefully their companies understand that they are doing what the US Govt is telling them to. Mr. Smith must be independently wealthy.

that was my thought when i saw the round table with 4 chairs on his verandah. I'm guessing he is in some kind of largeish suite.

See this video, it looks two bays wide and double the depth of a standard verandah for all of you nosy people, and checking a plan of deck 10 (where he says he is) I'd guess this is a "penthouse suite with balcony." His decision might have been different in an inside cabin and part of me wonders if he is also getting better food due to his suite status. If you can find a video of this it is pretty sweet accommodations.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1229037215184932865

He thinks that he will be free to go when he leaves the ship and take his first class flight home and be free when he gets here but I am wondering if the US won't quarantine him starting at that point anyway even if the rest of it works as he thinks it will (the official Japanese position is that he won't be quarantined there any further.)

like the above poster said, time will tell whether it works out better or worse for him. His major complaint is that they are evacuating people all together on a plane whether or not they have the virus and he feels safer in the isolation of his own room, does not want to start the clock ticking on another quarantine (he is assuming that won't happen upon his return to the US however, which is a big assumption though) and that the virus is only spreading due to people not following the rules of the quarantine/taking proper measures not that there is something inherent in the ship that promotes the spread (which is also a big assumption.)

I think from previous posts it sounds like he and his wife have both spent a fair amount of time in the past in Japan and are quite familiar/comfortable with the travel involved, which might also play into it.

 

[QueenElinor]

Saw this on twitter, and thought it really drives home the point how quickly this has spread:

Feb. 4- 10 cases
Feb. 17 454 cases

That's only 2 wks.

Now, both numbers are probably undercounts, but I really, really hope the biggest part of this problem is the ship.

 

[Maggie'sMom]

Saw this on twitter, and thought it really drives home the point how quickly this has spread:

Feb. 4- 10 cases
Feb. 17 454 cases

That's only 2 wks.

Now, both numbers are probably undercounts, but I really, really hope the biggest part of this problem is the ship.

A couple thoughts:

1) I'm thinking part of the spike in cases is due to increased testing. In the beginning, they were only testing people exhibiting symptoms. But my understanding is that all US passengers were tested prior to being evacuated and they are finding people testing positive for the virus that are (supposedly) asymptomatic. The asymptomatic carriers of the virus wouldn't have been found under the prior rounds of testing.

2) I definitely think there was/is a fundamental problem with how the quarantine was being handled that allowed the virus to spread. A big issue is the crew. Crew members that later tested positive for the virus were preparing and delivering meals and other supplies to passengers quarantined in their cabins. That's a huge issue for spread of the virus. The crew were working together in close quarters which would contribute to the spread of the virus from one crew member to the next.

 

[Lisa F]

A couple thoughts:

1) I'm thinking part of the spike in cases is due to increased testing. In the beginning, they were only testing people exhibiting symptoms. But my understanding is that all US passengers were tested prior to being evacuated and they are finding people testing positive for the virus that are (supposedly) asymptomatic. The asymptomatic carriers of the virus wouldn't have been found under the prior rounds of testing.

2) I definitely think there was/is a fundamental problem with how the quarantine was being handled that allowed the virus to spread. A big issue is the crew. Crew members that later tested positive for the virus were preparing and delivering meals and other supplies to passengers quarantined in their cabins. That's a huge issue for spread of the virus. The crew were working together in close quarters which would contribute to the spread of the virus from one crew member to the next.

Definitely both of these. This is not a real "quarantine" - it's just keeping a bunch of people aboard a ship with no special containment measures in place except to keep them in their rooms and limit contact. People are about the ventilation system but it's far more likely that the crew is spreading it than the air.

Also the other thing to remember is just how mild it is in most people anyway (which speaks to the first).

It seems like the death rate in ANY new disease always looks much higher at first as we are figuring out how to diagnose and people with mild symptoms are underreported. The increased testing may end up showing that percentages of severe cases and deaths are even lower still as many more people have it in a virtually undetectable form.

I mean no one is afraid of getting this thing and having "mild cold symptoms." People are afraid they are going to end up in severe respiratory distress and die from it. I'd happily deal with the mild symptoms if it gave me immunity going forward.

 

[cvjw]

Just read that you can catch the virus twice, and people who catch it the second time are dying from heart attacks. Seems the medicine needed to recover from the virus can damage your heart, and if you catch it again, your heart is weakened and you can have a heart attack. The more info that they learn about this virus, the scarier it becomes.

 

[MarkLT1]

So this kind of reporting makes my head want to explode. An article titled "Here's how long coronaviruses may linger on contaminated surfaces, according to science": https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/17/health/novel-coronavirus-surfaces-study/index.html

They talk about the Flu, SARS, droplet transmission, that things like alcohol and peroxide might kill the virus on surfaces, and how the mortality rate might or might not be high or low. The only thing they mention is that SARS was able to live on a surface for between 5 minutes and 9-days, and that the current virus may or may not be anything like SARS, so there is no way to tell if info about SARS says anything. In other words, they never even attempt to answer what the title of the article states will be spoken about. The article essentially says nothing.

 

[Adventurelawyer]

Just read that you can catch the virus twice, and people who catch it the second time are dying from heart attacks. Seems the medicine needed to recover from the virus can damage your heart, and if you catch it again, your heart is weakened and you can have a heart attack. The more info that they learn about this virus, the scarier it becomes.

Two things.

One, yes you can catch coronavirus again because immunity doesn't last for a lifetime the way chicken pox does. Its very much like the flu that way, you can catch it again. Remember, coronavirus is one of many virus families that also causes the common cold, which most of get year after year after year. And live, btw.

Two, This virus is attacking and hitting people harder who have preexisting cardiac issues. Antiviral meds being used are the same as for HIV patients, antiretroviral drugs, which are associated with cardiac side effects in a small number of patients when used normally. These drugs are currently being used in large doses on patients where it may be contraindicated because of their history or the other meds they are taking, but the result of not using it is likely death anyhow. So, they are using them anyway and hoping the coin toss works in their favor. Even WHO which has been extremely generous in its estimation of Wuhan Coronavirus containment and cure have said they cannot support the use of those antivirals in every case or as a broad brush "cure."

You don't get it twice, back to back and then die of a heart attack from the meds. That isn't what's happening. Besides, most people aren't even needing any meds.

 

[Adventurelawyer]

So this kind of reporting makes my head want to explode. An article titled "Here's how long coronaviruses may linger on contaminated surfaces, according to science": https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/17/health/novel-coronavirus-surfaces-study/index.html

They talk about the Flu, SARS, droplet transmission, that things like alcohol and peroxide might kill the virus on surfaces, and how the mortality rate might or might not be high or low. The only thing they mention is that SARS was able to live on a surface for between 5 minutes and 9-days, and that the current virus may or may not be anything like SARS, so there is no way to tell if info about SARS says anything. In other words, they never even attempt to answer what the title of the article states will be spoken about. The article essentially says nothing.

Exactly! Clickbait!

So scientists, in 6 weeks, haven't been able to figure out and tell the public how to kill these germs. Really? Nope, it's just not being reported because it doesn't drive fear up, it drives it down. I guess any publication, group, r person can call itself a "journalist" these days. Trash trash trash.

 

[Adventurelawyer]

Another question I have is about those folks who've already tested negative on this ship. Did they all leave the ship ?
As long as they don't know what the source of the exposure is there is no end to this until they're all off the ship or ill. The people who are due to end the quarantine in a few days really haven't been quarantined. It would be a huge mistake to let them go.

It would be worse than the Westerdam, i think.

They are being put into quarantine in arrival to the US. Some to San Antonio, some to Omaha, according to the news.

 

[monkeydawn]

People are afraid they are going to end up in severe respiratory distress and die from it.

I dont even think most people in the US are afraid of getting it (mainly because it's so mild in healthy adults with access to sufficient medical care). I think most here (and other cruise boards) have expressed that they are afraid of either being denied boarding for having other flu like symptoms or being quarantined. These are certainly both my fears with respect to taking a Med cruise in May. Actually getting Coronavirus is pretty far down on my list of fears of things that could FUBAR my trip.

 

[QueenElinor]

They are being put into quarantine in arrival to the US. Some to San Antonio, some to Omaha, according to the news.

I mean the non-Americans. I think they are testing them, and if they test negative, they are being taken off the ship, is that correct? I sure hope so.

 

[QueenElinor]

I dont even think most people in the US are afraid of getting it (mainly because it's so mild in healthy adults with access to sufficient medical care). I think most here (and other cruise boards) have expressed that they are afraid of either being denied boarding for having other flu like symptoms or being quarantined. These are certainly both my fears with respect to taking a Med cruise in May. Actually getting Coronavirus is pretty far down on my list of fears of things that could FUBAR my trip.

I'm not sure the part I bolded is true. It is affecting ostensibly healthy & wealthy people. https://variety.com/2020/film/asia/virus-kills-chinese-film-director-family-wuhan-1203505614/

China has a pretty good health care system in the cities (more hospital beds per capita than we have), but they're overwhelmed. They are overwhelmed because the government appears to have suppressed news of the epidemic in the beginning. The West will never be as bad off as they are, as we have had advanced notice.

The hope is that the virus just give us a few outbreaks here and there, and doesn't hit healthcare systems all at once. Then people can be properly cared for. This is likely, I think, but only if we all do our part to stay healthy.

The big problem is, the numbers out of China are not trustworthy. At all. Who would lock down 10% of the world population over 2000 deaths? There has to be more to the story. Those numbers they post every day are not considered reliable by virologists & epidemiologists, who have resorted to guesstimates and computer modeling to try to predict the numbers of actual cases and fatalities. This is why there's so much confusion about what to do, what the fatality rate is, how many people are asymptomatic, what the incubation time is, etc. etc. etc. This is why the disaster on the Diamond Princess happened in the first place. The authorities in Japan did not know what they were dealing with.

We will learn a lot more as Singapore and Japan start accumulating cases, as it's apparent they have community transmission of the disease, i.e. it's not just ill Chinese visitors, it's starting to pop up in regular Japanese people.Both countries have excellent health care, though not as good of public health care systems as we have in the US.

Most US public health flies entirely under the radar, but they're there, and prepared for this exact kind of thing. I have a lot of confidence in the CDC, which is the head of public health care in the US. They are the best in the world, and we should all be paying attention to what they have to say. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/index.html

 

[Adventurelawyer]

I mean the non-Americans. I think they are testing them, and if they test negative, they are being taken off the ship, is that correct? I sure hope so.

That is my understanding. I read that the Canadians were being taken to quarantine outside of Toronto, if I am not mistaken. The Europeans, I have no idea, but it is very likely.

 

[QueenElinor]

That is my understanding. I read that the Canadians were being taken to quarantine outside of Toronto, if I am not mistaken. The Europeans, I have no idea, but it is very likely.

That's great. I may have heard of Italy sending a plane, so there must be more. It can't be left to the Japanese to deal with, they have problems of their own.

 

[Adventurelawyer]

Right, I may have heard of Italy sending a plane, so there must be more. It can't be left to the Japanese to deal with, they have problems of their own.

Exactly. The Italians for sure. Not the Brits as of last night. Honestly, I can't image that is current information though and I'm having trouble finding the article I read last night, for confirmation. Japan has problems. Those problems are from refusing to ban travel early, so I kind of want to remind everyone that we are doing it differently and spreading the burden of these cases around so that it doesn't overwhelm any one hospital system.