Relative assumes he has rights to our cottage

[Duncanzmom]

My husband and I bought 75 percent of our aunt and uncle's cottage recently. I invited all my siblings to come up when we could find mutually convenient times over the summer. Due to friction between husband and some of them, only one took us up on the invite. Unfortunately he assumes that he has a "history" there (he went fishing a few times as a kid) and that history entitles him to keep a small boat there. The other owner is the youngest of the three cousins who inherited the place, and the only one who wanted to keep it in the family (hence our investment). He already has a boat up there. We bought a new dock last year intending to make it safer for fishing and swimming, but not necessarily to keep another boat tied up to it.
Brother's boat is old, needs a lot of repair, and last summer he angered our very kind, generous neighbors by arriving late at night and deciding he needed to work in the motor at midnight. (That's when the "I have history here" came out rather defiantly.) And now he's talking about investing a significant amount of money in repairs and building some sort of ramp at the cottage for the boat.
My husband is outraged and I'm baffled by brother's "entitled" behavior. I've never seen this side of him. We were happy to have him come up to fish, spend a week with SIL relaxing, etc. but his assumption that he can make these plans without asking stunnned me. Now I'm struggling to find the right words to defuse this. If we don't straighten this out before spring, things will get ugly.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

It’s simple. He has no ownership rights, and you have other plans. So IF entitled brother really does want to proceed with his plans once spring comes, then you tel him no. “Cousin and I have discussed it, and have decided not to have 2 boats at our dock. We’d love to have you visit though.” You don’t owe him any more than that.

And I would also plan on someday buying out cousin’s share. I watched my parents go through this with both of their siblings, and it didn’t end pretty in either case. Usually the person with the funds to buy in to save the property are the ones who end up getting the short end.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

Ugh, this is why I hate real estate that has family history. Always seems to be one who doesn't understand boundaries and ends up with their feelings hurt.

All you can do is let him know nicely but firmly that he doesn't own the place and cannot make renovations or store his stuff there.

 

[Mainsail Minnie]

You inadvertently told him that he had rights to the cottage by allowing him to keep his boat there. To convince him otherwise, you're going to have to tell him that you won't be able to keep his boat at the cottage any longer. Yes, this entitled guy will get angry. Oh well. It is easier to draw boundaries in advance than after the fact, but mistakes happen. Learn from this situation and draw clearer boundaries in the future up front.

 

[Kitty 34]

My husband and I bought 75 percent of our aunt and uncle's cottage recently. I invited all my siblings to come up when we could find mutually convenient times over the summer. Due to friction between husband and some of them, only one took us up on the invite. Unfortunately he assumes that he has a "history" there (he went fishing a few times as a kid) and that history entitles him to keep a small boat there. The other owner is the youngest of the three cousins who inherited the place, and the only one who wanted to keep it in the family (hence our investment). He already has a boat up there. We bought a new dock last year intending to make it safer for fishing and swimming, but not necessarily to keep another boat tied up to it.
Brother's boat is old, needs a lot of repair, and last summer he angered our very kind, generous neighbors by arriving late at night and deciding he needed to work in the motor at midnight. (That's when the "I have history here" came out rather defiantly.) And now he's talking about investing a significant amount of money in repairs and building some sort of ramp at the cottage for the boat.
My husband is outraged and I'm baffled by brother's "entitled" behavior. I've never seen this side of him. We were happy to have him come up to fish, spend a week with SIL relaxing, etc. but his assumption that he can make these plans without asking stunnned me. Now I'm struggling to find the right words to defuse this. If we don't straighten this out before spring, things will get ugly.

Hope things get worked out and welcome to the DIS!

 

[Ellie008]

Was this brother offered a chance to buy in to the property? If he was, and refused, then there you go. Set appropriate boundaries and move on. If he was not, maybe he is feeling slighted because he wanted part ownership? That will be a tougher one to handle.
I agree with a PP that partial ownership of real estate is my worst nightmare. It never seems to go well.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Oh geez, I saw the title and assumed this was going to be a joke spinoff of the Royal Family discussion. I’ve clearly been spending too much time on that thread.

“To be clear is to be kind” is the only advice I have. Good luck.

 

[Hikergirl]

My husband and I bought 75 percent of our aunt and uncle's cottage recently. I invited all my siblings to come up when we could find mutually convenient times over the summer. Due to friction between husband and some of them, only one took us up on the invite. Unfortunately he assumes that he has a "history" there (he went fishing a few times as a kid) and that history entitles him to keep a small boat there. The other owner is the youngest of the three cousins who inherited the place, and the only one who wanted to keep it in the family (hence our investment). He already has a boat up there. We bought a new dock last year intending to make it safer for fishing and swimming, but not necessarily to keep another boat tied up to it.
Brother's boat is old, needs a lot of repair, and last summer he angered our very kind, generous neighbors by arriving late at night and deciding he needed to work in the motor at midnight. (That's when the "I have history here" came out rather defiantly.) And now he's talking about investing a significant amount of money in repairs and building some sort of ramp at the cottage for the boat.
My husband is outraged and I'm baffled by brother's "entitled" behavior. I've never seen this side of him. We were happy to have him come up to fish, spend a week with SIL relaxing, etc. but his assumption that he can make these plans without asking stunnned me. Now I'm struggling to find the right words to defuse this. If we don't straighten this out before spring, things will get ugly.

The right words are- We would love to have you come visit us here, but you are not allowed to build, renovate or change anything on our property. Your boat will need to leave with you when your visit is over.
If this arrangement doesn't work for you then I hope you enjoy your spring/summer boating and fishing elsewhere.

 

[DVC-Don]

As you have 75% ownership, who has the other 25%? Shared ownership rarely works out in the long run. Neighbor of ours had 50% interest in a boat once. Fights later brought on divorces in both couples. Name of the boat? Joint Custody

 

[AgentMama]

Your message about what is and is not allowed on your property should be direct and blunt so there is no misinterpreting what you mean. I think the message should also come from you so your husband does not become a bigger target in what seems to already be an uncomfortable family situation.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Now I'm struggling to find the right words to defuse this. If we don't straighten this out before spring, things will get ugly.

Maybe it would be wise for the 'owners', you and the one cousin, should contact everyone with any interest at all, with a CC: generic text, letter, email, whatever...
This should be very simple and direct... Not directed at the one brother where there are clearly issues.
Would everybody else understand that approach, and just accept that letter, as stated?
In example... something like this... Just off the top of my head.

Spring will be coming soon!
We are happy to share time at the cabin with everyone.
Please, however, contact either of us beforehand to let us know exactly when you would like to enjoy the cabin.
This will avoid any confusion or problems.
We have installed an electronic entry, and we will then simply forward to you the current code!

We will be responsible for all maintenance and improvements! As, we are the owners.
Please do not feel like you should put any time, effort or funds into the property.
So, do not do that. If you would like to work with us on any work that you would want or need, just ask!

We also ask that no cars, boats, large equipment, etc. be left at the cabin.
We really can not take on any responsibility for your valuable property.

Cheers!

DuncanzMom, and Cousin

 

[NotUrsula]

By ramp, do you mean a launch ramp? If you expect him to trailer the boat in and out on a regular basis, then a launch ramp is not really an unreasonable thing; he can't easily move the boat onto a trailer without it. The truth is that a boat that must be trailered is a PITA, and more disruptive because trailers are noisy and require extra parking. Because of that, land-stored boats don't usually get enough use to make them cost-effective; a dedicated water berth is a very valuable thing for that reason. The other useful things to have near a dock are a fish-cleaning station and a small utility washroom with an outdoor shower, for use by guests who have been doing dirty work outdoors.)

Personally, I think it would be kind to allow him limited access, especially if he only wants access to the outdoor dock and environs. However, it isn't reasonable to be poisoning your relationship with your neighbors. I would have you & the other owner sit down with him and try to work out a specific easement arrangement for the dock, including the hours during which powerboats may be operated (do remember that fishing requires fairly early starts, but if he adds a small trolling motor to go in and out with, that shouldn't disturb your neighbors too much. It is also possible to leave the dock with oars; all small craft should have a pair on board for emergencies anyway.). If he wants to leave the boat berthed, then he should either pay rent for the space, or perhaps you could accept the value of the improvements (which you would have a design approval clause on) in lieu of rent for a certain period of time, but certainly not indefinitely. I would also specifically limit the number of vehicles that could be brought onto the property by his guests, so that if he is taking a party out in the boat, they won't all descend on the house. (One helper to maintain the boat is reasonable; a whole crew parking at your place is not. For groups, he should motor over to the marina and pick up the extra guys.)

PS: The reason that I would not categorically deny the idea of improvements is that at a waterfront property, having a good dock improves the property value. If I had a relative willing to do mutually-agreed improvement work on a dock in lieu of easement fees, I would not dismiss the idea out of hand. What is important, though, is to figure out the market value of the benefit accruing to each of the parties in order to keep equity in mind when setting the terms, and make sure that end dates are spelled out. Also, it would be important to spell out what happens in the event that the property is sold before the agreement terminates.

 

[Disneybuckeye]

If the lake does not have a boat ramp where he can launch his boat then he doesn’t need to bring it. Once he spends money improving you property you have opened a very ugly can of worms.

Your husband needs to talk to his brother pronto and lay out expectations. You also need to make sure the cousin is also ready to back him up.

I do agree you need to either buy out the cousin or have him buy you out. Lived this scenario for quite a few years and it did not end too ugly, but it cost us quite a bit of money and there are a lot of hard feelings as one family took advantage of the others.

We finally bought our own place. We are also looking at buying the two properties on our one side so we can leave each of our kids their own lake house to avoid these issues.

Good luck!

 

[Flowers12]

“No”. End of discussion. You don’t owe him anything.

 

[disykat]

I like the idea if letter above, but with some changes. You are not "sharing" the cabin (that could imply part ownership) you are allowing some access to the cabin. Also, change do not maintain, to something like " we expect those visiting the cabin to leave it in the same condition they found it so we can hopefully all continue to enjoy it for many years. Do not make any changes or leave behind any belongings."

 

[anniemae]

I cringed at your opening sentence. Shared family ownership rarely works. I have seen families split apart over "gramma's cottage" that was left to multiple relatives.

 

[barkley]

i agree with those who say a firm 'no' should be the way it's handled b/c the brother is overstepping his boundaries on this issue, exposing the owner(s) to potentially higher property taxes (improvements tend to mean higher assessed values where i've lived) and insurance. the kicker-if he get's his nose out of joint after being either permitted to do this or doing it b/c no one told him not to, how much do you want to bet he stakes a claim for partial interest in the property (or at least compensation for the cost of the improvements plus any value her perceives the cottage has garnered from his 'investment').

i'm all for sharing a cottage with family if that's what you want to do but i wouldn't be sending out an email blast to folks that sounds allot like 'free lodging, just clear the dates with us'. that to me opens it up to being the expectation of being able to use it vs. the generous offering that it is. family knows it exists, if they want to use it they know to ask (i would hope-i like the idea of the security pad for entry so long as both owners are on the same page on giving it out).

 

[frog3101]

You have my sympathies. Seems like you are trying to not “step on toes”, but you need to set firm boundaries now or you will most likely be very sorry you ever bought that 75%. Best wishes you can get it resolved.

 

[focusondisney]

So let’s make this a little clearer. Imagine you invited this brother to visit your primary home for a week. And then he decides he is going to keep his cousin Eddie RV permanently parked at your house. But he needs electric & sewer hook ups. So he starts digging up your yard & marking the sites for what he wants. Doesn’t ask, doesn’t discuss, just starts doing whatever he wants to the home YOU own & have paid for. You’re good with that?? Your husband shouldn’t be bothered?? Would you be worried about “finding the right words”?

I really don’t get the worry about diffusing the situation. Someone is planning on altering your property to suit his own needs, without your permission & without even consulting you. Doesn’t matter it is your brother. You just need to man up, speak to your brother & tell him in plain language he is not to alter your property & he needs to remove his boat. He can VISIT when you invite him & only then. If he gets upset, so what???? What kind of a person would do that anyway?

I personally would be more outraged at my spouse if his brother did this & he was hemming & hawing & wasting time taking stranger’s opinions online instead of acting quickly & definitively to protect our property & investment.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Um..no. We all know what happens if someone is allowed to assume...