Rider Switch changing (Started June 16th)

[CT Disney]

Same could be said for 2 adults and 3 toddlers. But what if the window expires? Sounds like you are against using RS with FP, but that isn't changing.

Close..but not quite. I'm not totally against using RS with FP. I just think that everyone who is riding should have a FP. I think it would cut down on some of the big issues...especially in the parks with tiers.

I remember a while back their was a doozy of a thread. A group with 11 adults and 1 toddler was trying to maximize RS by splitting fast passes between Soarin' and TT, and shuttling the poor toddler across the park to collect RS passes at both rides.

I know that some people disagree with me. That's OK...I enjoy the discussion But, I also know that some people agree with me...hence the length of this thread.

 

[CT Disney]

Well, actually, no, there aren't six adults. The two teenagers have disabilities. One is on the autism spectrum and one is cognitively delayed (and is actually 20, but not, and I still mentally think of her as a teenager). So no, not six adults. Could I break up the party more... possibly. But at some point I'm going to have a teenager who has ASD waiting for a group. That could be fine, if it's a good day. Or it could lead to a meltdown. I'd prefer to avoid the later. And this is probably the only e-ticket ride we'd have this issue with. So I'm going to use the tools Disney provides for their guests to give all of us a good experience, and that includes RS.
It is clear you don't agree with that kind of use, and that's okay. At the end of the day, though, it's up to Disney to state what the use should be. Until they do, I'm going to plan with the information I have. If they change it, they change it, and I will sort that out.

Thanks for the clarification...and that does change my position on the issue. I hope you have a great trip and that all goes smoothly!

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Close..but not quite. I'm not totally against using RS with FP. I just think that everyone who is riding should have a FP. I think it would cut down on some of the big issues...especially in the parks with tiers.

I remember a while back their was a doozy of a thread. A group with 11 adults and 1 toddler was trying to maximize RS by splitting fast passes between Soarin' and TT, and shuttling the poor toddler across the park to collect RS passes at both rides.

I know that some people disagree with me. That's OK...I enjoy the discussion But, I also know that some people agree with me...hence the length of this thread.

What evidence do we have that there are big issues? As in, issues that make some sort of noticable impact anywhere?

It makes perfect sense to me if it winds up that Disney chooses not to inconvenience RS users for the outliers like the people you mentioned in that thread.

 

[CT Disney]

What evidence do we have that there are big issues? As in, issues that make some sort of noticable impact anywhere?

It makes perfect sense to me if it winds up that Disney chooses not to inconvenience RS users for the outliers like the people you mentioned in that thread.

I don't have any evidence...sorry!

But, Disney has made some headliners difficult to book...especially in the parks with tiers. I don't happen to think it's fair that some people can use RS to double their fast passes and get around the tiering issue. That's just my opinion.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I don't have any evidence...sorry!

But, Disney has made some headliners difficult to book...especially in the parks with tiers. I don't happen to think it's fair that some people can use RS to double their fast passes and get around the tiering issue. That's just my opinion.

But why does it matter? Even those getting around the tiers are still waiting in line longer than a family who rides each ride together, only using FP once. And I’m not convinced that many people actually do this, since it’s a pain in the butt.

Try Epcot with a toddler, taking full advantage of RS, and Epcot without. I promise there’s nothing to envy besides having a cute little toddler in tow.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I totally understand that it just feels wrong to some people, but if Disney is choosing to allow it (which they do at the current time, it remains to be seen how the current system shakes out) and there’s no evidence it’s actually creating a problem, why worry?

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

I don't have any evidence...sorry!

But, Disney has made some headliners difficult to book...especially in the parks with tiers. I don't happen to think it's fair that some people can use RS to double their fast passes and get around the tiering issue. That's just my opinion.

If people were unable to bypass the tiering issue,would you have a problem with a single person staying back with a little one using their fastpass to ride something like Living with the Land with the kid and a RS without FP to ride Soarin for instance?

 

[ArwenMarie]

One good test will be when Slinky Dog and Aliens opens up at the end of the month. I imagine whatever the current RS policy is, it will be enforced there and the CMs will be well-trained on what they are supposed to be doing.

Between the opening crowds, the height restrictions, the attraction of a new "kiddie" land, the slow loading rides, there will be a lot to balance there to keep the FP lines from becoming overwhelmed

 

[CT Disney]

But why does it matter? Even those getting around the tiers are still waiting in line longer than a family who rides each ride together, only using FP once. And I’m not convinced that many people actually do this, since it’s a pain in the butt.

Try Epcot with a toddler, taking full advantage of RS, and Epcot without. I promise there’s nothing to envy besides having a cute little toddler in tow.

I have tried Epcot with a toddler...many times! In fact, those trips are some of my best memories! Honestly, we never used RS. We always chose to ride what we could ride as a family. There were many years where my DH and I didn't go on the big rides. But, that was OK with us. When my older child was big enough to ride some faster rides, we would have one parent stay with our younger child while the other parent took our eldest on the bigger stuff. It was a nice opportunity to spend quality time with each kid. I'm not saying my way is for everyone...it's just the way we did it.

If people were unable to bypass the tiering issue,would you have a problem with a single person staying back with a little one using their fastpass to ride something like Living with the Land with the kid and a RS without FP to ride Soarin for instance?

I don't think I'd have a problem with this. I do like the idea that someone brought up a number of pages back...some kind of companion pass so the little kiddo could have someone ride with them.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

I don't think I'd have a problem with this. I do like the idea that someone brought up a number of pages back...some kind of companion pass so the little kiddo could have someone ride with them.

I agree. That would be a nice way to handle this. Personally, I doubt that tier bypassing is really being done that much or that big of an issue, but if they got rid of the ability to do that while still giving people the chance to use a fastpass with a small child, I think most people would be fine with it.

 

[doconeill]

Man, I missed like 12 pages of this thread...I may be throwing some lighter fluid on a few things, but I feel like I need to mention a few things...forgive the old Jedi for spending too long in the twin suns and being late to the party again...

First, for those stating that you absolutely cannot get a Rider Switch pass at a ride without a height restriction, or for a rider who is too tall...this is very incorrect. Not meeting a height requirement is certainly a guaranteed way. But there are other reasons, and up to the discretion of the CM in most cases. And they have definitely had Rider Switch passes at non-restricted attractions. They are sometimes given out for convenience reasons, if handling a situation through other means (such as a swap at the platform) would be difficult. I've seen Rider Switch passes for Toy Story Mania...

As for splitting FPs, yes, you really could get an advantage in certain situations. This is the example I wrote, oh, 8 years ago...

Take this example: 2 Adults, 9 year old and 3 year old. Standby wait is 50 minutes, FP wait is 10 at both Splash Mountain and Big Thunder Mountain. Next Fastpass times are at least two hours away.

If the 3 year old is tall enough to ride both attractions, you could either ride both standby (total wait time: 100 minutes), or get FPs for one and ride standby on the other (total wait time: 60 minutes). So at best you can get through in 60 minutes. Everyone gets 1 ride on each attraction.

Now, if the 3 year old was not eligible to ride and there was no form of rider swap available, the wait time now goes up to 200 minutes for each adult to get through the standby lines! But the 9yo gets a couple extra rides.

Now, if the 3 year old is not eligible in either case and Rider Switch is used...

First case, Standby only: You approach and get RS pass. One adult and 9yo ride SplM standby, then other adult uses the RS pass and enters FP line with 9yo riding again: total wait time 60 minutes. Repeat at BTM, another 60 minutes - total wait time: 120 minutes. The group gets a 20 minute "munchkin penalty", but its still 80 minutes less than if there wasn't an option.

Now add FP...if the waiting adult is required to have a FP as well, then you need to get 3 FPs for one attraction - you can get a 4th for something else but its only one so its a minor perk. Trade one FP for the RS pass, and use the other two. When they return, use the RS pass. Wait time so far: 20 minutes. Then ride the other attraction via standby and RS. Wait time: 60 minutes, for a total of 80 minutes. 40 minutes saved, and the 9yo gets an extra ride.

Now, if the waiting adult is NOT required to get a FP...

Take two tickets and get two FPs for SplM, and take the other two and get two FPs for BTM. Assume they have roughly the same return time.

Do the FP/RS wait games on both attractions. Total wait time: 40 minutes!!!! That is a HECK of an advantage, using a single FP cycle when others would have to wait two cycles to collect them to get the same wait times.

Of course things changed a bit with FP+ and booking specific times, but the idea remains the same.

You mentioned that FP is only available on the height restricted rides. So no FP on most of the rides little kids do. But without FP the line moves much faster. It's easier to find a shorter line on something at DLR than it is at WDW because almost everything at WDW has FP feeding in.

Pirates at DLR is getting Fastpass, so the "no height restriction" rule at DLR no longer applies

Aside, I did try out MaxPass. I liked it. If I was going for several days I probably wouldn't get it for every day, but it was super convenient. I do wish the Wi-Fi was better. It was like before WDW made the major improvements to accommodate MDX use in the parks.

And since I'm on the subject of DLR at the moment - I wouldn't ascribe anything about how things work at DLR to intent or future at WDW. DLR was forced kicking and screaming into Fastpass in the first place...what works there does not easily apply to WDW.

Just wanted to report our FOP experience this morning. They started the digital RS today and we had a FP for two of us and needed a RS for the adult staying with the littles. They never asked him for a FP, they scanned us and then asked who was going back. We told her just him and she said we were entitled to 3 guests. So we scanned our ODD and myself as well. They then said we had a return window of 10:57-11:57. It was 10:20 at the time. So I assume that is an hour plus the time it will take to wait and ride. So the rule about needed a FP for everyone doesn’t seem to be in effect, but there is an hour time window for return. Just wanted to share our experience this morning!

Thanks for the report. I would be interested in knowing whether that "fudge factor" time seems to correspond to an expected "entrance to exit" time, or whether it might be related to the standby time? I wonder if it is different if the first group is using standby...

The fastpass/double dip issue aside, I wonder why they are changing it to an hour window? It used to be one day (ie, you had to return that same day) and then for some reason they changed it all the way to the end of the month. Now instead of going back to same day they're limiting it to just an hour. I wonder if they were seeing a bunch-up of RS returns towards the end of the day or something and are trying to spread that out.

It was actually the end of the month for a quite a while before. This was a matter of convenience for printing the Rider Switch passes. The Rider Switch passes were printed in bulk backstage. Rather than be wasteful and printing too many for a given day, or risk not printing enough, they printed them so they expired in the future, and the end of the month was convenient. Then they changed the FP kiosks to allow the CMs to print Rider Switch passes as needed at the kiosk, so they could print a smaller batch and if they needed more just walk over and print some more. This cut down on the "selling" of the passes online. But when they removed the kiosks, the CMs couldn't do that anymore so they were printed backstage again - and expired in the future once again.

As for the hour, I still think that might be an occasional issue unless it is more dynamic on the standby times and if there are any sudden increases they inflate (or ignore) the window. But as for why, the only explanation I can think of is to avoid the "end of day" hoarding. I expect that this wasn't a huge problem in general, but with FP+ and more recent developments I bet the dwell times are more easily disturbed now than they used to be, so they want to keep the intended use as close to when it was obtained as possible to let any anomalies to smooth out over a longer time.

I still don't know about whether there is intent to require FP+ or not. I've only seen the above report so far, and if they did indeed only have two out of three Fastpasses, then there seems to be no electronic enforcement. I have yet to hear from a CM that can say what THEIR rules are - I know what WDW Communications says the rule is, but these are the same people that maintain the Rider Switch web page which has been wrong for a decade...

 

[HopperFan]

First, for those stating that you absolutely cannot get a Rider Switch pass at a ride without a height restriction, or for a rider who is too tall...this is very incorrect.

Not meeting a height requirement is certainly a guaranteed way. But there are other reasons, and up to the discretion of the CM in most cases. And they have definitely had Rider Switch passes at non-restricted attractions. They are sometimes given out for convenience reasons, if handling a situation through other means (such as a swap at the platform) would be difficult. I've seen Rider Switch passes for Toy Story Mania...

Nothing at Disney World is "absolute" in any way - no matter what the issue, it varies from CM to CM, Coordinator to Coordinator, Manager to Manager, Shift to Shift .......... not even printed policy is adhered to. AND not sure what you mean "very incorrect" ... that implies that everyone who has experienced these denials (me included) are not telling the truth.

Disney website lists all the attractions that RS is available. I think the only one of the list that has no restriction is FEA and I don't know why they would offer it there as it's a similar ride to others without. It should not be offered on any other rides that have no restrictions as you open that for abuse.

 

[WillowRain]

@doconeill I like your comparison. And exactly why it should be a rule that all need a FP for the swap, esp on the bigger ticket rides. I always look at the standby times and I am floored at how long they are at WDW compared to DL. And this could be adding to the problem somehow. Now it still needs to be known if the "only holding 1 swap at a time" applies to your entire linked party, or to specific people in the party. What DL enforced was all need a FP, 1 swap at a time. Because why the heck wouldn't everyone split FP for the Top Tiers and get a RS for each if they can? At this point, I am hopeful that my son will be tall enough to go on Slinky Dog come September, so I am just going to get the FP for all of us (internet gods willing), and standby Aliens as I don't think it will be too busy then. But now according to this rule, for FOP if my family is off the ride within 30 mins, and the RS window opens then, but I still have 30 for my FP, I could ride alone and my husband and kids could go again. If we are allowed RS per ticket and not per party, then I could try to get another one. These are things that need to be figured out in the coming weeks.

@HopperFan can you imagine RS on every ride? Total abuse and chaos would occur with practically everyone who rides anything!!!

 

[midaroco]

This whole topic annoys me. You don’t have to go to WDW until all your children are old enough or tall to go on the rides. YOU, the adult, are making this choice to go. Why should Disney, or the general public, have to deal with this??! When I have children in my party, I don’t expect any extras. I know what I’m dealing with and it’s STILL my choice. The sense of entitlement here is outrageous.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

@doconeill
The problem with the scenario you described is that is often not an accurate example of many of the wait times and also does not account for the length of the ride itself and any pre-shows.

For Soarin and Test Track, if you want to stick with two tier one rides, one has a pre-show and the other a pre-design element. Whenever I've gone, going through the FP line for either of these rides tends to take about 45 mins full circle from entering the queue to being out of the exit line. Say the standby is an hour and let's add 15 mins for the pre-activities, ride length, and exiting. Standby at 75 mins.

For a family without RS to FP one and standby the other, they're looking at 120 mins. For the rider swap family who needs everyone to have a FP for one, use RS, standby the other and use RS, it would take 45+45 for the FP ride, then 75+45 for the standby ride. That's 310 mins vs the non-RS family's 120. If the RS family didn't need FP for everybody and split it between the two rides, the length would be 45+45 for the first and 45+45 for the second. 180 mins total to ride both, or a full hour more than the non-RS family.

Let's say you can make it through FP in 30 mins, and leave standby time at 75. Non-RS family will take 30 (FP ride)+ 75 (SB)= 105 mins. RS family FP one and standby the other: 30+30 (FP) + 75+30 (SB)= 165 mins. If the RS family has FP for both, it still takes them 30+30 (1st FP ride) + 30+30 (2nd FP ride)= 120 mins... Still 15 mins longer than the non-RS family. This scenario can apply whether someone does this for tiered or non-tiered rides. It all depends on the overall time in line and on the ride when comparing how long it will take someone with RS vs someone without. Most rides simply are much longer than a 10 min posted FP queue.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

This whole topic annoys me. You don’t have to go to WDW until all your children are old enough or tall to go on the rides. YOU, the adult, are making this choice to go. Why should Disney, or the general public, have to deal with this??! When I have children in my party, I don’t expect any extras. I know what I’m dealing with and it’s STILL my choice. The sense of entitlement here is outrageous.

Because Disney likes money from guests with small children? That much seems obvious...

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This whole topic annoys me. You don’t have to go to WDW until all your children are old enough or tall to go on the rides. YOU, the adult, are making this choice to go. Why should Disney, or the general public, have to deal with this??! When I have children in my party, I don’t expect any extras. I know what I’m dealing with and it’s STILL my choice. The sense of entitlement here is outrageous.

The way you go about expressing your annoyance annoys me

But for reals I totally get it if you're annoyed at how people go about using RS because it doesn't jive with your viewpoint on it but don't get mad at them for using it to begin with. I'm not going to exempt myself from enjoying my local amusement park simply because I have children who aren't tall enough to ride every single ride available much less WDW. Heck if my mom did that they would have had to wait for years and years as I was a slow and late grower. I was fairly short (I'm only just under 5' 3 1/2'' now as an adult). As is we went to Universal Orlando and Hollywood, Busch Gardens Tampa, Seaworld Orlando and San Diego, WDW and DLR all when I was a young kid. I have no idea if she used any sort of rider swap/switch, whatever but I certaintly wouldn't fault her if she did.

 

[midaroco]

Because Disney likes money from guests with small children? That much seems obvious...

So that means that those with toddlers in tow are allowed to have this huge sense of entitlement??! I am aware of the “obvious” way that Disney is trying to be accommodating. What I am not aware of is why people who have a two year old in tow think they are entitled to more than a family with preteens, or no children at all?! My point stands, the sense of entitlement is egregious.

 

[midaroco]

The way you go about expressing your annoyance annoys me

But for reals I totally get it if you're annoyed at how people go about using RS because it doesn't jive with your viewpoint on it but don't get mad at them for using it to begin with. I'm not going to exempt myself from enjoying my local amusement park simply because I have children who aren't tall enough to ride every single ride available much less WDW. Heck if my mom did that they would have had to wait for years and years as I was a slow and late grower. I was fairly short (I'm only just under 5' 3 1/2'' now as an adult). As is we went to Universal Orlando and Hollywood, Busch Gardens Tampa, Seaworld Orlando and San Diego, WDW and DLR all when I was a young kid. I have no idea if she used any sort of rider swap/switch, whatever but I certaintly wouldn't fault her if she did.

It’s not that it doesn’t “jive with my viewpoint on it”. It’s that the overall sense of entitlement because one has a child is downright rude. I’m not mad at anyone for using it. I find it incredulous that anyone is getting upset at changes to the policy. If a family with a two year old is making the choice to go, then the adults switch off and ride every other ride. I’ve done it. If you can’t be grateful - yes, grateful, for the provisions that Disney has put into place to be accommodating to allow both adults the chance to experience a ride then perhaps you ought not go.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It’s not that it doesn’t “jive with my viewpoint on it”. It’s that the overall sense of entitlement because one has a child is downright rude. I’m not mad at anyone for using it. I find it incredulous that anyone is getting upset at changes to the policy. If a family with a two year old is making the choice to go, then the adults switch off and ride every other ride. I’ve done it. If you can’t be grateful - yes, grateful, for the provisions that Disney has put into place to be accommodating to allow both adults the chance to experience a ride then perhaps you ought not go.

Well IDK sounded like entitlement rolling off on your comments though just from a different side but admittedly I could be reading it wrong.