Riverboat/Tom Sawyer Island?

[Simba's Mom]

So a coworker yesterday approached me about a newspaper article he says he read that the Riverway that the Riverboat travels on is being filled in and Tom Sawyer Island is being retimed (HOW?) He was pretty excited that he'd "scooped" me. I never heard this. Can anyone tell me the facts behind this?

 

[Pens Fan]

I don't know where you coworker saw it, but someone sent me this article yesterday

https://apple.news/AKDFcpuo3RGuPK_P4ybswew

It's just some random reporter speculating. No "scoop" .

 

[disneydreamer1980]

I read that an “insider” heard that imagineers are considering filling in rivers of America and getting rid of Tom Sawyer island to expand as this would be the best place to expand. Nothing in stone. But we haven’t visited the island on our last two trips so definitely visiting next time just in case!

 

[DonMacGregor]

Anyone who speculates that back-filling that much swamp land, rather than utilizing dry, somewhat arid land immediately adjacent to it, has no clue about hydrology, geology, or the process of designing and building structural foundations. First of all, they'd have to start by excavating and removing even MORE of the saturated material below the river, just to establish a uniform and consistent base for the back-filling (although it's still a swamp and they'd never actually get down to anything dry, just deeper into the water table). Then the 100's of thousands of cubic yards of backfill needs to be placed in carefully engineered "lifts" and tested continuously for compaction and consolidation. It would take years to get that much infill compacted and allowed to achieve further natural consolidation.

"There is some available space north of the Rivers, but how would guests access that? There's no space for them to walk around Thunder on the right, and backstage facilities, including Thunder's roundhouse, push up against the coaster on the left."

There's a plethora of options available to Disney. They've spent the last 70 years re-imagining the parks and re-directing guest traffic in creative ways. It happens every time a new land or new attraction opens. Move a queue, or spend years back-filling the river? There is a comment about filling in the 20,000 Leagues lagoon, but we're talking apples and oranges here. That lagoon was a fraction of the size of the river, and was situated off in the corner of the park and easily fenced off without affecting most of what was around it. The river sits smack-dab in the middle of the entire west side of the park.

 

[reddog21]

D'Amaro had said

“Disney has historically used parks’ berms to increase capacity, and D’Amaro states they will continue this trend. We have both internal opportunities to grow capacity and create new experiences and opportunities outside of the berm to essentially expand the size of these theme parks.”
Excitingly, D’Amaro revealed that Disney is not limited to the current park boundaries. They have plans to utilize space both within and beyond the park berms, indicating a willingness to expand “pretty aggressively” at Magic Kingdom and Disneyland in Anaheim. This approach aligns with Disney’s history of utilizing berms to maximize capacity.

Then the rumors started with possibility filling in the rivers of America which has been discussed previously.

Personally I think it's a good idea, I think tom sawyer island is a waste.

 

[reddog21]

Anyone who speculates that back-filling that much swamp land, rather than utilizing dry, somewhat arid land immediately adjacent to it, has no clue about hydrology, geology, or the process of designing and building structural foundations. First of all, they'd have to start by excavating and removing even MORE of the saturated material below the river, just to establish a uniform and consistent base for the back-filling (although it's still a swamp and they'd never actually get down to anything dry, just deeper into the water table). Then the 100's of thousands of cubic yards of backfill needs to be placed in carefully engineered "lifts" and tested continuously for compaction and consolidation. It would take years to get that much infill compacted and allowed to achieve further natural consolidation.

There just talking about the river that surrounds Tom Sayer island. If you look at the picture I'm pretty sure it's man made.

 

[2Lunds]

I love Tom Sawyer Island. It's so quiet and cool over there. Sitting in one of the chairs in the shade and watching BTM go by is such a lovely break. The views of BTM and HM are unbeatable too.

 

[splash327]

Anyone who speculates that back-filling that much swamp land, rather than utilizing dry, somewhat arid land immediately adjacent to it, has no clue about hydrology, geology, or the process of designing and building structural foundations. First of all, they'd have to start by excavating and removing even MORE of the saturated material below the river, just to establish a uniform and consistent base for the back-filling (although it's still a swamp and they'd never actually get down to anything dry, just deeper into the water table). Then the 100's of thousands of cubic yards of backfill needs to be placed in carefully engineered "lifts" and tested continuously for compaction and consolidation. It would take years to get that much infill compacted and allowed to achieve further natural consolidation.

Rivers of America is man made and is a cement bottom. So I think they could just fill it in.

 

[PalmettoPath]

I love Tom Sawyer Island. It's so quiet and cool over there. Sitting in one of the chairs in the shade and watching BTM go by is such a lovely break. The views of BTM and HM are unbeatable too.

Not to mention it's the only attraction I believe that Walt Disney designed (the DL version at least, but still it would be sad to lose that history and plus it's such a great respite amid the surrounding buzz).

 

[DonMacGregor]

Rivers of America is man made and is a cement bottom. So I think they could just fill it in.

Well, it's all "man-made". There is concrete where the Liberty Belle runs for sure, particularly under the guide rail and individual piers under structures that line the riverfront, (you could see it all last year when it was drained) but all of the river is not. Portions of it and the canal attached to it that extends out to Seven Seas lagoon are lined with bentonite clay. Regardless, even where the concrete exists, it is just a "liner" and isn't structural and you can be sure there is plenty of saturated soil underneath (you can see seepage in those same photos). You can't just fill it in like a swimming pool. All the concrete needs to come out, soil beneath it removed and/or treated, then backfilling can begin.

ETA: if you look at pictures of the drained river, you can see the very clearly defined structural concrete under the guide rail and under the piers, as opposed to the non-structural liner adjacent to the structural stuff. Get out to the back side, where there are zero structures, and you can be sure it's nothing more than a liner. It doesn't even need to retain water as it's connected to the rest of the canal system and Seven Seas.

 

[2Lunds]

Not to mention it's the only attraction I believe that Walt Disney designed (the DL version at least, but still it would be sad to lose that history and plus it's such a great respite amid the surrounding buzz).

It really is. If you survive getting fried by the sun on the raft over, it's a delightful oasis

 

[BrianL]

I think it would be unfortunate to lose the island, however I do think they could repurpose it and maybe create an easier way to access it.

 

[Earningmywings]

My boys love Tom Sawyer Island. The only place they can run around and not be standing in lines. Great place get some energy out.

 

[BrianL]

My boys love Tom Sawyer Island. The only place they can run around and not be standing in lines. Great place get some energy out.

I think a lot of people without little kids forget this. They just want it to be a ride. I do think they could spruce some things up over there, and add something interesting or interactive. They did that at Disneyland a while back and their version is much better.

 

[DonMacGregor]

There just talking about the river that surrounds Tom Sayer island. If you look at the picture I'm pretty sure it's man made.

View attachment 772659

No one said it wasn't man-made. The point is that there is only formed structural concrete under the guide rail and those piers supporting the structures along the riverfront. You can easily see the transitions in that photo. The rest is a combination of a gunnite (sprayed concrete) liner and bentonite clay. Neither of those can simply be covered over with dirt and built on. It’s still swamp land.

 

[easyas123]

There's literally a article on the DIS about this now.....

https://www.wdwinfo.com/walt-disney...dical-change-to-disney-parks-be-on-the-table/

With that being said, while we've never rode the Riverboat, we have often gone over the Tom Sawyer Island at WDW and often find the area to be a quiet spot to get away from the crowds for a bit.

 

[DonMacGregor]

There's literally a article on the DIS about this now.....

https://www.wdwinfo.com/walt-disney...dical-change-to-disney-parks-be-on-the-table/

With that being said, while we've never rode the Riverboat, we have often gone over the Tom Sawyer Island at WDW and often find the area to be a quiet spot to get away from the crowds for a bit.

Yeah, there's going to be lots of click-baiting to be mined from that one article and "source".

 

[reddog21]

Well, it's all "man-made". There is concrete where the Liberty Belle runs for sure, particularly under the guide rail and individual piers under structures that line the riverfront, (you could see it all last year when it was drained) but all of the river is not. Portions of it and the canal attached to it that extends out to Seven Seas lagoon are lined with bentonite clay. Regardless, even where the concrete exists, it is just a "liner" and isn't structural and you can be sure there is plenty of saturated soil underneath (you can see seepage in those same photos). You can't just fill it in like a swimming pool. All the concrete needs to come out, soil beneath it removed and/or treated, then backfilling can begin.

ETA: if you look at pictures of the drained river, you can see the very clearly defined structural concrete under the guide rail and under the piers, as opposed to the non-structural liner adjacent to the structural stuff. Get out to the back side, where there are zero structures, and you can be sure it's nothing more than a liner. It doesn't even need to retain water as it's connected to the rest of the canal system and Seven Seas.

View attachment 772699

View attachment 772704

However the filled in river country which was a natural resource to build a hotel on top of it so were there is a will there is a way.

 

[Boopuff]

Love TSI so calm and quiet there. Miss when they had Aunt Polly's for a quick, uncrowded lunch...

 

[crvetter]

However the filled in river country which was a natural resource to build a hotel on top of it so were there is a will there is a way.

Or the entirety of Magic Kingdom, which is why the Seven Seas Lagoon was created.