The "New" Exclusive WDW... a discussion

[wilde_oscar]

I'm not trying to step on Pete's toes about mentioning other podcasts and websites, so I will try to start this discussion with out mentioning them directly...

I don't want to call it a conspiracy theory, but more and more I see the new trend and direction of WDW to more aggressively seek the upscale customer with a larger percentage of disposable income. I made the assumption when the Four Seasons announcement was posted that Disney was going to have to improve its game significantly. Four Seasons would not be going in unless they could offer their customer base an exclusive experience. If you are dropping $1000 a night for a room, expectations are going to run high. We are starting to see those initiatives, some in testing, some in practice.

Fast Pass system: yes there is going to be tiered levels of fast passes based on what you are paying a night for your onsite room. Exclusive room will equal exclusive access to bypass the lines... the Nintendo DS testing is part of this. A handheld computer that allows you fastpass access, maps, show times... this is not being done for the average customer. Development costs for this are way to high to recoup costs of infrastructure on a $10 a day rental... but if that guest is dropping $1000 a night for a room, a couple hundred a day for exclusive park tickets with unlimited fastpass, a couple hundred for their morning round of golf, a couple hundred per person on diner with wine... you are looking at a Four Seasons customer easily dropping $2000 a day for vacation.

Put that together with things that Pete and the gang have been saying about staying concierge level at the current Disney Resorts... it's not worth it. They are not providing the level of service that a Four Seasons customer would expect from a standard room let alone concierge services. And getting that level of customer to the parks, that will drop the kind of money that will impact the bottom line, they are not going to wait in line for their kids to get autographs.

Disney is going to have to strike a delicate balance here... the average vacation going family still needs to be taken care of, while at the same time not turning every attraction in to the haves and the have nots lines. I think the marketing department might have noticed that when they advertised a family of 4 going to WDW for $1600 that it became the number the family budgeted, and then made due with peanut butter and jelly along with skipping the shopping for the typical souvenirs. And that lead to the rooms being full, but the shops and restaurants not so much.

So much like in the cell phone business, or Cable vs. Dish... the only way to get new customers is to poach someone else's. So Disney is launching initiatives and ad campaigns (like in GQ) to poach the folks that take high end vacations to exotic locations.

So my question for discussion is... are we seeing a shift in how Disney will do business? Less emphasis on attracting the typical family in favor of attracting the upscale vacation traveler that would other wise be going to Hawaii, or Fiji, or the South of France?

 

[drakethib]

Pretty tough question to answer

Couple of things that I think.ymmv

I think Disney has always looked for high end vacationer (ie that is why they have high end resorts like gf,poly, tbc)

While he four seasons is expensive not all rooms go at 1000 per night unless they plan on doing something different

I do think (and I may be wrong) thy disney is beginning to realize that they do have many repeat customers (look how big DCC has become) and they will need to have some kind of rewards programs for those who visit a good bit as well as those who spend a good bit of money while still enticing those one time visitors

Disney may soon be running things las vegas style

IMHO

 

[DisneyKevin]

Disney is not only getting a Four Seasons, but the Waldorf Astoria.

This is being built in the Bonnet Creek Resort area and is the only one outside of NYC.

And keep in mind that there is also a Ritz Carlton near SeaWorld.

We are in the era of the luxury hotel.

 

[Stevegriswold]

Disney is not only getting a Four Seasons, but the Waldorf Astoria.

This is being built in the Bonnet Creek Resort area and is the only one outside of NYC.

And keep in mind that there is also a Ritz Carlton near SeaWorld.

We are in the era of the luxury hotel.

WOW, I wonder how this will affect bookings at the Grand Floridian when these hotels open on Disney Property?

Steve

 

[UrsulasShadow]

WOW, I wonder how this will affect bookings at the Grand Floridian when these hotels open on Disney Property?

Steve

Are they really ON Disney property, though? Sounds like they're off property, and competing for Disney business.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

Oscar...your post got me thinking. Perhaps the EMH test of using resort keys instead of wristbands is a prelude to having guests at lower-priced resorts use their room key during EMH to access the regular line, while guests staying in higher-priced resorts get a wristband that allows access to the FP line.

Could this test be the transition period to implement the rumored changes?

 

[wishspirit]

If they do this, i will boycott Disney, i mean it!

I think its disgusting that they would neglect their biggest base, the family to aim at the top 1% of their clientelle!

We are DVC members, so i guess we would have some kind of preferntial treatment, but if it is I DONT WANT IT!!

Its not fair that a family who saves and saves for a vacation to stay at just a value will have to wait in line, where as a family who can drop $1000's a night on accomidation and can probily afford to do Disney a couple of times a year can just stroll in.

I personally think its sickening, and if they want to go about their business in an undisney like manner (this is NOT what Walt would have wanted), then i will take my money else where.#

Plus i think it wont work, remember the year or two they stopped doing extra magic hours, and no one stayed on property? I think it will be a repeat of that.

 

[Minnie Lor]

If they do this, i will boycott Disney, i mean it!

I think its disgusting that they would neglect their biggest base, the family to aim at the top 1% of their clientelle!

Its not fair that a family who saves and saves for a vacation to stay at just a value will have to wait in line, where as a family who can drop $1000's a night on accomidation and can probily afford to do Disney a couple of times a year can just stroll in.

I personally think its sickening, and if they want to go about their business in an undisney like manner (this is NOT what Walt would have wanted), then i will take my money else where.

Yep, what she said!

 

[LMO429]

IMO when I go on vacation I want to go all out. I am willing to save, work extra hours and do whatever it takes in order to make my vacation anywhere the most enjoyable it can be.

while i do agree it is not fair for the average family to have to wait on line, while another more well to do family can just walk onto a ride based on where they are staying or some other "exclusive" promotional experience for $$$, etc. I am willing to pay and would like to have such options when I am on vacation. I want my vacation to be as hassle free as possible. Maybe some trips I would be able to afford this option, maybe some others I would not but at least the option would be there.

example, when we go to six flags great adventure..we pay the extra $60 bucks a person to our admission to have the front of the line access. For us paying the extra money is worth not having to wait hours in line. In addition, we do the same thing at Universal. I like having that option and sometimes get frustrated it is not offered at disney.

 

[wilde_oscar]

Oscar...your post got me thinking. Perhaps the EMH test of using resort keys instead of wristbands is a prelude to having guests at lower-priced resorts use their room key during EMH to access the regular line, while guests staying in higher-priced resorts get a wristband that allows access to the FP line.

Could this test be the transition period to implement the rumored changes?

anything is possible... but I think that would result in open revolt.

 

[wilde_oscar]

Disney is not only getting a Four Seasons, but the Waldorf Astoria.

This is being built in the Bonnet Creek Resort area and is the only one outside of NYC.

And keep in mind that there is also a Ritz Carlton near SeaWorld.

We are in the era of the luxury hotel.

I know most won't believe me, but the Waldorf=Astoria is much more a business hotel... high end business, but business never the less. I have stayed there many times for work, and never noticed any kinda tourist crowd there. But they have great eggs Benedict. I can imagine that they will take a slice of the high end convention biz.

Ritz-Carlton is a high end name... but they really don't offer near the level of service of a Four Seasons.

Like I said, it will be a very fine line that Disney will have to walk to provide the kind of upscale service that will attract the super luxe vacationer, with out torqing off the regular family... but over the next year, I suspect we will see more "tests" and services, that will be geared to a guest that is dropping $2000 a day for a couple weeks vacation.

 

[wilde_oscar]

Are they really ON Disney property, though? Sounds like they're off property, and competing for Disney business.

Four Seasons are affiliated with WDW, and it will be "on" disney property, or what was formerly Disney property.

 

[Alicnwondrln]

Its a tough question. I have an AP and a DDE card, we went 5 times last year and stayed deluve concierge and we went 3 times the year before staying the same way. We have 3 trips planned this year all deluxe concierge. We dont want DVC right now. I dont think I should get more fastpasses but I do think there should be some type of loyalty program.

 

[saturday97]

If I'm not mistaken, the Grand Wailea in Maui is owned by the Waldorf Astoria. The GW caters to the high-end family experience with their unbelievable pool (it's always on the Travel Channel-- Samantha Brown practically lives there).

Also, I am hearing rumblings that the new park will be an exclusive experience, not unlike Discovery Cove but with an AK-based theme.

 

[awatt]

This plan doesn't bother me at all. It is business after all. If they can sell perks for a price, they will. Has nothing to do with being unfair,or "un-Disneylike" it's just business. In fact it is smart business to reward the high end customers who drop a boatload of cash fo their vacations, as they want them to come back and do it again.

Guess I feel if I'm going to spend that much more money, I'd like something in return for it. Otherwise, why do it?

 

[abish19]

From what I've read about Walt Disney, I do not think that his purpose in building Walt Disney World was SOLELY about how much money he could make. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't it also about giving families and friends an opportunity to be together in a safe, clean, friendly and magical place?

While Disney is a corporation and a successful business, there is a line that they cannot cross. No matter how much upper-level vacationers spend on their trips, the bulk of Disney's success comes from average people (I am classifying average as someone who does not have $1000 to spend on a hotel room for one night, no matter how many extra jobs they work.).

I agree that those who are DVC members, Annual Pass holders, on-site resort guests, etc. all deserve, and pay for, additional benefits. These should not come at the expense of the majority of visitors.

It will be interesting to see where Disney takes the Bonnet Creek property. I'm a little uneasy witnessing them selling of the land that was so important to Walt to have as a barrier from the real world.

 

[UrsulasShadow]

I think there's plenty they can give high-end customers without socking it to those who have to work longer to afford their less-affluent Disney vacation. I wouldn't mind all sorts of extra perks for Deluxe resorts...better accommodations, maybe special events just for DVC (oh, I think they already do those things!), special gifts, etc. But to give those who pay more money fotl privileges exceeding what everyone else can get will mean a much-diminished experience for value-resort and offsite guests. More for them means less for me, basically. It's hard enough for me to manage a vacation now. To be able to accomplish less and spend more time in lines rather than enjoying the park? Takes away almost all my incentive for going. So, what they will accomplish will be to lose the lower end of their fan base, and hope to make it up by increasing their higher-end sales. Unless they do a lot more to impress those people with money, I doubt they'll hold them long.

 

[Disneybridein2k3]

Fast Pass system: yes there is going to be tiered levels of fast passes based on what you are paying a night for your onsite room. Exclusive room will equal exclusive access to bypass the lines... the Nintendo DS testing is part of this. A handheld computer that allows you fastpass access, maps, show times... this is not being done for the average customer. Development costs for this are way to high to recoup costs of infrastructure on a $10 a day rental... but if that guest is dropping $1000 a night for a room, a couple hundred a day for exclusive park tickets with unlimited fastpass, a couple hundred for their morning round of golf, a couple hundred per person on diner with wine... you are looking at a Four Seasons customer easily dropping $2000 a day for vacation.

I am really hopeful that you are wrong here. The more I hear about the testing of the DS system - the ability to instantly access the wait times and fast pass return times would really be something that would add value to our experience. I can't say what the rental would be if they would simply sell the device or the cartridge but I would use it. But the problem is, how will they address the DVC crowd then?

 

[alysnwndrlnd]

just what we need...

more class wars.

(NOT)


I think Disney has tried hard to establish their selves as 'affordable' for the 'average family of four' in the last two or three years. If they are planning on doing some of the things mentioned in the original post (tiered fast passes based on hotel level) I hope they consider the implications.

Its bad enough hearing and seeing kids have meltdowns in the middle of Magic Kingdom cause they see all the other kids with all the souvenirs, face painting, etc..., and they cant have ______ (fill in the blank) because the family cant afford much more than the price of admission/hotel... now the parents will have to explain why that family over there is getting to go on the ride before them because they have more money.

I am sure if they proceed with things like that, the "value resort" business will drop off FAST, and it probably wont improve their luxury resort business by much. If they want to reward the high end resort goer, let them reward them IN the resort, NOT in the parks.

Walt would be rolling in his grave, if he knew his vision (where all kids could have fun equally) was being mutated into some kind of capitalist class warfare area, where money buys the "level" of fun you get. If they do this, they should just go ahead and change the signs that say "You must be this tall to ride this ride" to "Your mommy and daddy must make >this< much money for you to ride this ride."


Signed,
alysnwndrlnd,
3rd class citizen of the World (oops, i mean All Star Resort'er)