The Running Thread - 2021

[Rogue224]

April totals:
Miles: 100.23 (I’m mad I didn’t notice the .02 miles to make it 100.25 miles)
Pace: 10:55

Overall happy with the month. Got a POT, first vaccine shot (second one this Friday). Now it’s time to concentrate on training (strength and speed) and nutrition to prepare for W&D 2021 and Dopey 2022! Not sure of any other in person to register for yet, but I’m keeping an eye open.

 

[opusone]

the side of my big toe on both feet felt sore....which is something I had been starting to notice for the last 2 weeks.....like my 2nd toe was getting smashed against my big toe

I have balega blister resist socks and those are kind of tight, but I’ve also been wearing those for a few weeks

Could just be a coincidence that you started wearing these socks a few weeks ago and that's when you started to notice the issue, but I would definitely try looser-fitted socks first.

Another option is to check how tight you are tying your laces. I find that I don't need to tie the 1080 laces very tight as the mesh upper does a fine job of holding the foot in the shoe. To be clear, my laces aren't completely loose either, but I can slip the 1080s on/off without retying the shoes.

I am a true believer in the 1080s (especially the v10 that it sounds like you have), and I find the mesh upper is perfect for me exactly because it doesn't squish the forefoot. That being said, I also fully realize that everyone's feet and needs are different, and there is no one shoe that is right for everyone.

ETA: I also completely agree with @meye1099 that you should also try body glide between the toes.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Surprisingly, if they’re the newest versions, the 880 (10 mm) has a higher heel drop than the 1080s (8 mm).

I have last year’s 880s.

You could try body gliding your toes' hot spots to prevent chafing and blisters forming. Or maybe you need a wide size if you don't already wear wide or to go a size up.

I definitely cannot wear a wide shoe. I wore aaa width heel shoes in middle and high school and already have to lace B width shoes with a heel lock or my foot won’t stay in. And it doesn’t really feel like chafing...it’s definitely more of a “squished” feeling....like when you wear formal shoes that are meant to look nice but not really be walked around in

Could just be a coincidence that you started wearing these socks a few weeks ago and that's when you started to notice the issue, but I would definitely try looser-fitted socks first.

Another option is to check how tight you are tying your laces. I find that I don't need to tie the 1080 laces very tight as the mesh upper does a fine job of holding the foot in the shoe. To be clear, my laces aren't completely loose either, but I can slip the 1080s on/off without retying the shoes.

I am a true believer in the 1080s (especially the v10 that it sounds like you have), and I find the mesh upper is perfect for me exactly because it doesn't squish the forefoot. That being said, I also fully realize that everyone's feet and needs are different, and there is no one shoe that is right for everyone.

This might be it. The first few times I wore the 1080s I had to stop and loosen them multiple times (they felt like they were crushing my forefoot, or cutting in at the top/front of my ankle) so maybe I need to loosen them all the way down the foot more if they have tightened back up some with tying/untying.

 

[camaker]

This might be it. The first few times I wore the 1080s I had to stop and loosen them multiple times (they felt like they were crushing my forefoot, or cutting in at the top/front of my ankle) so maybe I need to loosen them all the way down the foot more if they have tightened back up some with tying/untying.

‘Maybe an alternate lacing method?

 

[flav]

I have a foot/toe/shoe question.

When I originally got fitted I got NB 880s. Neutral shoe, probably average cushion. Very much like a “normal” shoe with mesh panels in a “framed” toe box. Then I also bought a pair of 1080s to try out the extra cushion (when SiL and I started talking about doing a full), and I really prefer how it feels. But the whole upper/toe box is like a stretchy knit, and there’s not that “frame” of not-stretchy material to keep the toe box in one shape...it basically just hugs your foot.

Yesterday when I attempted my 10mi run (which ended up be 7 for a lot of reasons) at about mile 4 the side of my big toe on both feet felt sore....which is something I had been starting to notice for the last 2 weeks.....like my 2nd toe was getting smashed against my big toe. At mile 5 I stopped and changed out of my 1080s and into my 880s. The toe box is definitely more roomy in the 880s and my toes didn’t feel like they were smashing together. But then I had just general whole-foot discomfort, like my body was angry at my for taking away my cushy shoes.

I have balega blister resist socks and those are kind of tight, but I’ve also been wearing those for a few weeks, so I don’t know if it’s a shoe issue, a sock issue, those 2 things combined, or what. I really don’t want to have to spend money on yet another pair of shoes because the 880s probably only have 150mi on them and the 1080s around 100 (and 90% of all those miles are treadmill), so this is NOT a shoe-age issue.

Help?

I cannot comment on those shoes. However, I would try different socks. I would also make sure my nails are cut short and that I put glide between any rubbing toes. Finally, if you end up trying other shoes, you may want to consider a half size bigger or, if they are women shoes, try the men version. The toe box and the drop often vary with shoes’ gender.

 

[GreatLakes]

I have a foot/toe/shoe question.

When I originally got fitted I got NB 880s. Neutral shoe, probably average cushion. Very much like a “normal” shoe with mesh panels in a “framed” toe box. Then I also bought a pair of 1080s to try out the extra cushion (when SiL and I started talking about doing a full), and I really prefer how it feels. But the whole upper/toe box is like a stretchy knit, and there’s not that “frame” of not-stretchy material to keep the toe box in one shape...it basically just hugs your foot.

Yesterday when I attempted my 10mi run (which ended up be 7 for a lot of reasons) at about mile 4 the side of my big toe on both feet felt sore....which is something I had been starting to notice for the last 2 weeks.....like my 2nd toe was getting smashed against my big toe. At mile 5 I stopped and changed out of my 1080s and into my 880s. The toe box is definitely more roomy in the 880s and my toes didn’t feel like they were smashing together. But then I had just general whole-foot discomfort, like my body was angry at my for taking away my cushy shoes.

I have balega blister resist socks and those are kind of tight, but I’ve also been wearing those for a few weeks, so I don’t know if it’s a shoe issue, a sock issue, those 2 things combined, or what. I really don’t want to have to spend money on yet another pair of shoes because the 880s probably only have 150mi on them and the 1080s around 100 (and 90% of all those miles are treadmill), so this is NOT a shoe-age issue.

Help?

It sounds like the fit of the shoe isn't right. As a PP mentioned take a look at the different lacing methods but having your toes feeling smashed isn't going to end well. Beyond the blister issue you've already encountered you may start to see issues with other parts of your foot since you likely can't push off properly with your big toe. I would try some Aquaphor between your toes and and on the points of the sides of your foot that contact the shoe and maybe try other socks but it might just be the geometry of the shoe isn't for you. If you can walk comfortably in them you can keep them around for normal wear.

Having to buy new shoes after 100 miles isn't fun but if you are going to have issues it is better than the alternative.

Good luck.

 

[garneska]

@Herding_Cats if you decide to go the shoe route, you might want to look at Mizzuno. I say that because of the narrow heel you have. I have really long feet and a narrow heel. My toes are normal. I wear a woman's size 12 in running shoes which can be difficult to find. Sometimes they will recommend a men's shoes but i have too many issues with them being too wide. Mizzuno has a smaller heel, it helps keep my foot in place. i used to wear Brooks and loved them but i wore a woman narrow. I switched to Mizzuno about 6 years ago when Brooks completely redesigned the shoe i was wearing and the new version was not going to work for me.

 

[Jules76126]

Been enjoying reading about everyone's races. Races were finally cleared to start in MA this month which will be nice to see.

April Running miles: 0
Walking miles: 40

I had high hopes for 2021 in terms of getting in more mileage and hopefully be able to run an in person race. However, right after New Years, I found I was pregnant. I was major respect for anyone who ran while pregnant, but that is not for me. My plan is to keep up my walking throughout the summer and then hopefully ease back into running this Fall once the baby is here. Now I am just trying to convince my husband that we really need a Bob's stroller.

 

[jmasgat]

@Jules76126 Congratulations!

I am glad Baker has instituted some revisions. We are visiting my daughter next week and the relaxation of the outdoor mask usage will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Been enjoying reading about everyone's races. Races were finally cleared to start in MA this month which will be nice to see.

April Running miles: 0
Walking miles: 40

I had high hopes for 2021 in terms of getting in more mileage and hopefully be able to run an in person race. However, right after New Years, I found I was pregnant. I was major respect for anyone who ran while pregnant, but that is not for me. My plan is to keep up my walking throughout the summer and then hopefully ease back into running this Fall once the baby is here. Now I am just trying to convince my husband that we really need a Bob's stroller.

Congratulations!!!!!

You definitely “need” a bob. And I will say, they last for.ev.er so look for a used one if price is the issue. Mine is probably 15 years old (I bought it used 6 years ago) and still in great shape. In my area they are selling on fb for around $150, but of course this will vary by area/newness.

 

[michigandergirl]

April mileage: 43.2 miles

Light month because I took the family out west to see some National Parks. It was an epic adventure and probably our best family vacation ever. While in Utah, I ran the Zion trail half marathon - it was beautiful!


I plan to do a race/trip report over in my neglected training journal soon.

 

[Kerry1957]

Please Critique My First Ultra Strategy

As I have mentioned before, almost all of my training is on the Des Plaines River Trail, a 54-mile crushed limestone trail that starts at the Illinois/Wisconsin border and follows the river towards Chicago. After 5 years of running several thousand miles on the trail, I decided to see if I could run the entire trail in 24 hours sometime this summer. I have run 3 marathons in the last 3 years (finishing in around 5 to 5.5 hours) but never any longer.

@DopeyBadger and I are working on a training plan, but I'm not sure of the best strategy to complete the quest on race day. My first thought was to start around 12:00 noon, run/walk 27 miles in 8 hours (which would get me about a mile from my house), sleep/rest for 8 hours, then run/walk 27 miles in 8 hours again. Finishing in 23:59 is just as big of a success as finishing in under 15 or 20 hours. Knowing my body; the engine is strong, but the chassis could fail at any time.

Does this strategy make sense? What other alternatives should I consider?

For example, I could walk 20 minute miles straight for 18 hours; would that be more or less wear and tear on my body? I think I want to run at least some of it just to say (to myself) I completed it using a run/walk strategy, but that just might be silly.

Thanks for your insight/advice!!

 

[camaker]

Please Critique My First Ultra Strategy

As I have mentioned before, almost all of my training is on the Des Plaines River Trail, a 54-mile crushed limestone trail that starts at the Illinois/Wisconsin border and follows the river towards Chicago. After 5 years of running several thousand miles on the trail, I decided to see if I could run the entire trail in 24 hours sometime this summer. I have run 3 marathons in the last 3 years (finishing in around 5 to 5.5 hours) but never any longer.

@DopeyBadger and I are working on a training plan, but I'm not sure of the best strategy to complete the quest on race day. My first thought was to start around 12:00 noon, run/walk 27 miles in 8 hours (which would get me about a mile from my house), sleep/rest for 8 hours, then run/walk 27 miles in 8 hours again. Finishing in 23:59 is just as big of a success as finishing in under 15 or 20 hours. Knowing my body; the engine is strong, but the chassis could fail at any time.

Does this strategy make sense? What other alternatives should I consider?

For example, I could walk 20 minute miles straight for 18 hours; would that be more or less wear and tear on my body? I think I want to run at least some of it just to say I (to myself) that I completed it using a run/walk strategy, but that just might be silly.

Thanks for your insight/advice!!

I think your current plan would certainly work, but I think you might be selling yourself a little short on what you can do. I can only base this on m experiences, so take my advice with a grain of salt. I’ve been training with @DopeyBadger plans pretty much exclusively for the past 4 years. The majority of those plans have been maratho training plans with 4 or 5 days/week of training. Using modifications to those plans, which only go out to a 16mi maximum long run, I’ve completed 4 ultras (1x50k, 2x50m, 1x100k).

What has worked well for me is taking the marathon plan and shifting mileage away from the weekday runs to the Saturday easy run before the Sunday long run to give back to back days of longer weekend runs to simulate time on feet. I don‘t alter the total mileage per week on the plan. I think this last time around the longest weekend I had was 10 on Sat and 16 on Sun. This training has worked very well on its own for me for the 50k & 50m distances. For the 100k, I added ~3 mi/day of walking during the week to enhance the time on feet those days.

One detail that I think is important to note, too, is to train at your marathon goal paces during the training. On ultra day, slow down. I’ll generally start a little below my Easy A pace and then walk a minute of each mile. If that starts to get to be a strain during the ultra, I’ll introduce more frequent and then longer running breaks. I’ve been very pleasantly surprised at just how far I’ve been able to extend my endurance with that seemingly meager 16 mile maximum long run. Based on the impact an 1:45 or so rain delay had on me in my 100k I fear what the extended break you’ve proposed might do to your legs as they cool off and stiffen up.

Ultimately, good luck with whatever strategy you select. I think you’ll surprise yourself with what you can accomplish. Feel free to DM me if I can provide any extra details or information.

 

[LdyStormy76]

Dog Spray. For those of you that carry it, what brand do you have? Keychain style or belt loop clip style? Ever had to use it? Need recommendations.

DH just returned from walking Lolly; an unrestrained dog (no human in sight) ran at at them this morning, both dogs went into aggression mode, DH tried to get Lolly to back up (no go), so ended up picking her up and carrying her almost 3 blocks up hill. The other dog followed them a few houses and then stopped; Lolly, having had instincts raised, kept wanting to turn back hence the 3 block carry. DH now wants us to carry something to use if a similar situation occurs.

We know Lolly is not dog friendly, which is why we walk her between 3 and 6 am. She is a stray rescue, and also appears to have a bite mark on the underside of her muzzle. I have been working with her on appropriate responses at other dogs walking past the house (making progress) and behaving appropriately on leash if we do encounter another dog out with its person (minimal progress). Hopefully this morning does not undo the very slow progress that has been made over the past 6 months.

 

[jmasgat]

Dog Spray. For those of you that carry it, what brand do you have? Keychain style or belt loop clip style? Ever had to use it? Need recommendations.

DH just returned from walking Lolly; an unrestrained dog (no human in sight) ran at at them this morning, both dogs went into aggression mode, DH tried to get Lolly to back up (no go), so ended up picking her up and carrying her almost 3 blocks up hill. The other dog followed them a few houses and then stopped; Lolly, having had instincts raised, kept wanting to turn back hence the 3 block carry. DH now wants us to carry something to use if a similar situation occurs.

We know Lolly is not dog friendly, which is why we walk her between 3 and 6 am. She is a stray rescue, and also appears to have a bite mark on the underside of her muzzle. I have been working with her on appropriate responses at other dogs walking past the house (making progress) and behaving appropriately on leash if we do encounter another dog out with its person (minimal progress). Hopefully this morning does not undo the very slow progress that has been made over the past 6 months.

I can't comment on dog spray, and I can't compare my dog to yours, but I also have a dog who is territorial/dog-unfriendly. In the past, he has gotten so worked up at other dogs that he turns around and snaps at me if I have tried to pull him away I have had skin broken on more than one occasion. We even got kicked out of dog school when he was young when this happened! We have also been approached by rando, unleashed dogs which has not gone well (stitches in his ear, on one occasion).

My dog is a Lab mix, and is food-obsessed. So what I have ultimately trained him to do is get a treat reward by paying attention to me and my command of "leave it" when we see dogs. It has gotten to the point that if he sees a dog while out on walks, he looks at me--waiting for the treat.

Buddy is nearly 15 now, and he will never be a dog-friendly guy. So I will add that I also adjusted my behavior--I have accepted that my dog will never be good on-leash with other dogs (weirdly, he has been to dog parks in the past with no issue--neutral territory, I guess) and so I try to make sure we don't encounter those situations.

Good luck with your efforts. I hope you can help your pup's behavior.

 

[C.beara]

Okay Garmin + stroller users: what do I need to do to get my steps to register? I have ventured out a couple times now with my newborn and when I'm holding the stroller none of my steps are recorded. Does it work if I put my GPS on? Do I have to only use one hand to drive the stroller? Or am I just out of luck when stroller-walking?

I had a similar issue when I used to be on fitbit with shopping carts, but I could input steps manually afterwards based on whatever my phone tracked from my pocket. I don't see a manual option with Garmin though? I'm on the Forerunner 735xt if that makes a difference...

 

[The Expert]

Okay Garmin + stroller users: what do I need to do to get my steps to register? I have ventured out a couple times now with my newborn and when I'm holding the stroller none of my steps are recorded. Does it work if I put my GPS on? Do I have to only use one hand to drive the stroller? Or am I just out of luck when stroller-walking?

I had a similar issue when I used to be on fitbit with shopping carts, but I could input steps manually afterwards based on whatever my phone tracked from my pocket. I don't see a manual option with Garmin though? I'm on the Forerunner 735xt if that makes a difference...

You should turn your GPS on if outdoors. It will track GPS if it is on, or by your arm movement if not. So by leaving GPS off and keeping your arm stationary, it has no way to register your movement.

 

[dis_or_dat]

Been enjoying reading about everyone's races. Races were finally cleared to start in MA this month which will be nice to see.

April Running miles: 0
Walking miles: 40

I had high hopes for 2021 in terms of getting in more mileage and hopefully be able to run an in person race. However, right after New Years, I found I was pregnant. I was major respect for anyone who ran while pregnant, but that is not for me. My plan is to keep up my walking throughout the summer and then hopefully ease back into running this Fall once the baby is here. Now I am just trying to convince my husband that we really need a Bob's stroller.

Just be aware that some babies hate strollers. I could never get past 0.25mi with my first child. Thankfully I didn't buy a jogging stroller with him. But with my second, I ended up buying a Thule Urban Glide when it was on sale. Luckily I can run 6-8 miles and it's held up great - even 4 years later. It was hard to find a BOB on sale but my friend got a Duallie on Craigslist for a song. I love the Thule's canopy and it's really easy to open and close. I tried my friend's Duallie and it's a breeze to push! The Thule can be tough to push especially with a 30+ lb child in it. But people have stopped me many times to tell me my wheels are flat, so that might be it too.

 

[FFigawi]

What has worked well for me is taking the marathon plan and shifting mileage away from the weekday runs to the Saturday easy run before the Sunday long run to give back to back days of longer weekend runs to simulate time on feet. I don‘t alter the total mileage per week on the plan. I think this last time around the longest weekend I had was 10 on Sat and 16 on Sun. This training has worked very well on its own for me for the 50k & 50m distances. For the 100k, I added ~3 mi/day of walking during the week to enhance the time on feet those days.

One detail that I think is important to note, too, is to train at your marathon goal paces during the training. On ultra day, slow down. I’ll generally start a little below my Easy A pace and then walk a minute of each mile. If that starts to get to be a strain during the ultra, I’ll introduce more frequent and then longer running breaks. I’ve been very pleasantly surprised at just how far I’ve been able to extend my endurance with that seemingly meager 16 mile maximum long run. Based on the impact an 1:45 or so rain delay had on me in my 100k I fear what the extended break you’ve proposed might do to your legs as they cool off and stiffen up.

As @camaker said, time on your feet and learning to run far on tired legs are key to having a successful ultra. My training plans for my 50-miler and for my Comrades runs included several weeks of 3-5 hours on Saturday and 2-4 hours on Sunday. Most of those runs were done at my normal marathon training pace, but some were at my expected pace during the race which was 1-2 min/mile slower. Running slower than your usual pace is not always easy or comfortable, and can take some getting used to before race day. Some more helpful advice: run when you can, walk when you must, and always keep moving forward. Make any breaks as short as possible and no longer than absolutely required. The volunteers at the aid stations at most ultras will kick you out after a minute or two because they know the longer you stop, the harder it is to get and keep going again.

 

[garneska]

Just be aware that some babies hate strollers. I could never get past 0.25mi with my first child. Thankfully I didn't buy a jogging stroller with him. But with my second, I ended up buying a Thule Urban Glide when it was on sale. Luckily I can run 6-8 miles and it's held up great - even 4 years later. It was hard to find a BOB on sale but my friend got a Duallie on Craigslist for a song. I love the Thule's canopy and it's really easy to open and close. I tried my friend's Duallie and it's a breeze to push! The Thule can be tough to push especially with a 30+ lb child in it. But people have stopped me many times to tell me my wheels are flat, so that might be it too.

Can't help on the stroller, however Mallory uses a garden flatbed type wagon and if those tires get low man it can be hard to pull. I recommend keeping those tires inflated