"Tiered Loyalty Program" -- any ideas?

[Dizny Dad]

The problem with this half-measure, of course, is that it does absolutley nothing for the millions of truly disadvantaged people who own ZERO points.

Rather than redistributing the wealth between different levels of fortunate people, wouldn't it be more "fair" and "just" to take points from every owner and give them to those who - through no fault of their own - own none?

And while we're at it, we'd need to provide cash for Disney vacations for those who can't afford them. A modest special assessment should cover that.

I'm just sayin...

Da! Comrade MIA is right!!

The workers must unite against the DVC point owning bourgeoisie!!

We should calulate the total number of all DVC points divided by the total number of workers oppressed by the tyranny of the current regime and redistribute them! MF's should be paid for by the state!!!

well..I dunno..even if it IS their fault they don't own..they should still be given points from those who worked hard to get theirs..isn't that "FAIR"?
DVC points in every pot..and then of course we will have to all pitch in by a special ta...eh..assessment to pay for these folks to get to their DVC and since it wouldn't be any fun to be there and not do the parks..how taunting..then another small assessment could allow them all APs...yep..that's reasonable.

Can't one of you guys work into the discussion "the Unions" somehow . .. they seem to have made it possible for the rest of us to have DVC vacations . . .

 

[dianeschlicht]

I understand that there are people who like the AP. It's just not for us, nor do I understand it. I have a hard time understanding the concept of going into a park and paying a days dmission just to eat or watch a show. That doesn't mean I think people who do it are wrong, I just don't get it. I can't fathom spending the money to do it. But to each his own.

I realize that people from DVD read these boards. They need to realize that not everyone who owns DVC buys an AP, goes every year and spends money in the parks or resorts. I guess they need to decide what is more important to them, getting people in with discounted tickets or not having them in the parks at all or very little. This is the realization for us and not a threat. We have been doing this for about 10 years now and have owned for 13.

I don't look at it the same way. Mostly, that's because when I'm getting about 30 days on an AP, It's not costing me all that much to enter a park. Plus, since I've already paid the price, I tend to go to the parks each day. Granted, it isn't for all day, but I purchased DVC because of Disney World, and I don't think it makes sense to go to WDW and NOT go into a park each day. The DVC-AP discount is really the only "perk" I use.

The thing too with AP's is you don't have to by them every year.

We bought our last July. Then I went again in October. And we're going this June. So on that one AP, I'm going to get 3 trips out of it. (And DH will be getting two.)

Definitely a savings over buying park passes for each trip.

We won't renew our passes this year, but will buy new ones NEXT year and plan it so we get at least two trips out of them. (Go late in the summer next year, then early in the summer the year after that.)

We used to use that tactic before the DVC discount on APs. We sometimes still do that. I've only renewed a pass once. Usually we take a 3-6 month break and buy new ones instead of renewing on the renewal date.

 

[WDWMom]

That's exactly why people buy annual passes. With an AP you aren't paying $50-60 per day...or whatever it works out to when buying a Magic Your Way ticket.

For a set price (currently about $440) you could enter the parks every single day throughout the next year if you wish.

APs certainly work best if you can get at least 2 or 3 week-long trips out of a pass. I wouldn't buy an AP if I was only going to be in the parks 4 or 5 days out of a year. But if you'll be at WDW 10 or more days and want the freedom of being able to come-and-go as you please, the AP is the way to go.

There are also some nice perks like 10-20% off merchandise purchases, discounted hotel room night, etc.

I understand what you are saying, I just don't get it. If that makes sense. Maybe I'm too frugal???? It sounds like you buy AP's so you can go into the parks to eat, go on a ride, visit, whatever. I can't justify the money to do that for our family. We just bought 10 day park hoppers plus for $572. That gives us 20 days of fun that will last us four years. I'm sure for some people it is worth the cost. But like I said, I don't get it and I don't have to. Now if I were going to WDW 4 times a year for a week at a time, then it would be worth it to our family I'm not saying an AP discount isn't great for those that use it either and I wouldn't want you to lose that discount. I just want WDW to know that they are losing out on our money (and lots of others) by doing what we do. Not all DVCer's buy AP's. No one I know personally does. We all do the 10 hopper with no expiration and thats about a dozen families or so. I'm sure there are others that do it to, since I have read about them here on the DIS.

 

[WDWMom]

I don't look at it the same way. Mostly, that's because when I'm getting about 30 days on an AP, It's not costing me all that much to enter a park. Plus, since I've already paid the price, I tend to go to the parks each day. Granted, it isn't for all day, but I purchased DVC because of Disney World, and I don't think it makes sense to go to WDW and NOT go into a park each day. The DVC-AP discount is really the only "perk" I use.

We love WDW and OKW, but WDW is truly secondary to our vacation. As our children have grown up, we want to relax and enjoy all WDW has to offer. So the parks are not our main focus anymore and they haven't been for about 10 years. Now while I understand that your way works for you and others, It doesn't work for us and many other. To spend $440 (another posters amount) a year just so we could go into the parks whenever we wanted doesn't make sense. Recently we've only been going one trip, 10 days at a time the first week of April because our boys are on spring break then. Even when we were taking 2 - 8 day trips we didn't see the money logic. Maybe when DH and I retire we will think differently about AP's but until then, I don't need to spend that kind of cash just to go into the parks because I have a ticket. I hope this makes sense and I don't come off condesending. That's not my intent.

We used to use that tactic before the DVC discount on APs. We sometimes still do that. I've only renewed a pass once. Usually we take a 3-6 month break and buy new ones instead of renewing on the renewal date.

I guess what I like most about WDW and DVC, is that there is something for everyone.

 

[cvjw]

We used to do the 10 day non-expiring tickets with the water park option. Now, we do APs. It is so much easier with APs - you don't have to worry about going into a park for 1/2 a day or less. When we only used the 10 day tickets, I would never have used a day of our tickets for just a few hours in a park - we just felt that wasn't a good use of our money or tickets. We always felt that if we used a day of our tickets, we had to stay at the park all day to get our money's worth. We are more laid back travelers now - we enjoy the parks for a few hours, and our resort for much of the day. With an AP, we can come and go as we please, and not worry about the money. We still buy the 10 day non-expiring tickets - just to have the water park admissions.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I just want WDW to know that they are losing out on our money (and lots of others) by doing what we do. Not all DVCer's buy AP's. No one I know personally does. .

That's interesting, since almost all the DVC members I know personally DO get the AP. I suspect it is the most often used perk of all. Our friends whom we combined points with for the GV stay this winter have even used the AP discount, and they rarely go annually.

If you go at least once a year, you can easily get two trips on one AP by altering your arrival and departure date by a week. For example: travel and start a new AP on June 1 of one year. You know it will be active through June 1 of the next year (yes Disney gives you 366 days in your AP year), so you just alter your trip the following year by making sure it ends on June 1.

Granted, it might not be as worth it to those who travel less than a week at a time. My calculations show that if you are using the pass at least 10 times, you are saving money. Since we often go 7-12 days at a time, even if we only did one trip a year on that 'sliding scale' I mentioned above, we would still be getting 14-22 days on that one AP.

 

[DVCconvert]

That's interesting, since almost all the DVC members I know personally DO get the AP. I suspect it is the most often used perk of all.

Same here, and I suspect you're right!

 

[WDWMom]

That's interesting, since almost all the DVC members I know personally DO get the AP. I suspect it is the most often used perk of all. Our friends whom we combined points with for the GV stay this winter have even used the AP discount, and they rarely go annually.

If you go at least once a year, you can easily get two trips on one AP by altering your arrival and departure date by a week. For example: travel and start a new AP on June 1 of one year. You know it will be active through June 1 of the next year (yes Disney gives you 366 days in your AP year), so you just alter your trip the following year by making sure it ends on June 1.

Granted, it might not be as worth it to those who travel less than a week at a time. My calculations show that if you are using the pass at least 10 times, you are saving money. Actually your not. You pay $440 per year, every year you go. I'm paying $572 every 5 years and getting 20 days with the water and fun. That's $28.60 per day for me for 5 years. You would have to go in the parks 16 times every year to get that price, but you also pay it every year. Since we often go 7-12 days at a time, even if we only did one trip a year on that 'sliding scale' I mentioned above, we would still be getting 14-22 days on that one AP.

Must be our age group/where we are in life that makes us different. Everyone we know that goes our route has a family - most 5 or more. Not sure who you know and where they are in life, but I would guess that they no longer have children at home or not many, but I could be wrong, not that it matters. Most of our DVC friends don't want/can't spend $2200 a year or even every other on AP's. Nor can most of them change their vacation weeks. I know we can't because spring break is the same week every year. I would get a 9 days one trip and then probably 3 the next. Not worth it and then we would have to do 3 days of parks in a row along with going into the parks every day the first trip.

Like I said, I agree the AP is the right pass for some people, just not us and many families like us. Disney needs to know that if they want our money in the parks, they really aren't going to get it with the current lack of MYW ticket discounts. Maybe they don't want it or don't care.

 

[tjkraz]

I understand what you are saying, I just don't get it. If that makes sense. Maybe I'm too frugal????

There's no great mystery to it. Like most things it's just a question of how people choose to spend their money. People buy DVC or stay in Deluxe resorts despite the existence of lower-cost Value resorts or off-site accommodations. People pay hundreds of dollars for expensive meals despite the quick service locations and kitchens in villas. People choose what they want to spend on housing, cars, education and so on.

You buy 10-day passes for $572 and get 10 days in the theme parks over 4 years.

By staggering my trips, 2 Annual Passes will get me through 4 years worth of trips and cost me about $880. So for an extra $308 over what you are spending, I get unlimited admission to the parks during my stays.

Still it's rare that I will ever enter a park just to eat or browse. But the option exists. I'd much rather have a leisurely park experience rather than feel any pressure to maximize the use of a limited commodity.

To each their own.

I just want WDW to know that they are losing out on our money (and lots of others) by doing what we do.

Not sure what you think Disney is "losing out" on. Walt Disney World alone has about 50 million people entering its 4 theme parks in a single year. Sorry but I can't see Disney lowering admission prices for all under the assumption that folks would graciously redirect that money to other areas.

 

[WDWMom]

There's no great mystery to it. Like most things it's just a question of how people choose to spend their money. People buy DVC or stay in Deluxe resorts despite the existence of lower-cost Value resorts or off-site accommodations. People pay hundreds of dollars for expensive meals despite the quick service locations and kitchens in villas. People choose what they want to spend on housing, cars, education and so on.

You buy 10-day passes for $572 and get 10 days in the theme parks over 4 years.

By staggering my trips, 2 Annual Passes will get me through 4 years worth of trips and cost me about $880. So for an extra $308 over what you are spending, I get unlimited admission to the parks during my stays.

Actually we get 20 days because that is a water and fun pass. I don't know what it costs to just get the 4 parks.


Still it's rare that I will ever enter a park just to eat or browse. But the option exists. I'd much rather have a leisurely park experience rather than feel any pressure to maximize the use of a limited commodity.

To each their own.



Not sure what you think Disney is "losing out" on. Walt Disney World alone has about 50 million people entering its 4 theme parks in a single year. Sorry but I can't see Disney lowering admission prices for all under the assumption that folks would graciously redirect that money to other areas.

I'm not asking them to lower admission prices for all or any. Somewhere above in the thread the point was brought up about AP's and low point holders. I think I made the comment (I don't really remember) that not all DVCer's are AP holders. They gave DVC members the AP discount, to no doubt, get them in the parks more and spend more money. I can't believe there is any other reason as $$$ is always the bottom line for any corporation. I'm just letting them know they have left out a great number of members who don't buy AP's.

 

[tjkraz]

Actually we get 20 days because that is a water and fun pass. I don't know what it costs to just get the 4 parks.

Again, to each their own. I have a pool at home and my hotel has a pool that we can use for no additional charge. While we do visit Disney waterparks very occasionally, I would never put them on the same plane as the theme parks in terms of unique entertainment value.

They gave DVC members the AP discount, to no doubt, get them in the parks more and spend more money. I can't believe there is any other reason as $$$ is always the bottom line for any corporation. I'm just letting them know they have left out a great number of members who don't buy AP's.

The primary goal of the AP discount is to get DVC members coming back to FL more frequently. More trips means you need more points. DVC doesn't really care about how the Parks & Resorts division may benefit from AP purchases. Their goal is to put you in a position where that one extra trip is just so easy to do, and ultimately leads to a need for more points.

It's also an appealing sales incentive given that DVC members and FL residents are really the only ones eligible for any sort of Annual Pass discount.

 

[WDWMom]

Again, to each their own. I have a pool at home and my hotel has a pool that we can use for no additional charge. While we do visit Disney waterparks very occasionally, I would never put them on the same plane as the theme parks in terms of unique entertainment value.



The primary goal of the AP discount is to get DVC members coming back to FL more frequently. More trips means you need more points. DVC doesn't really care about how the Parks & Resorts division may benefit from AP purchases. Their goal is to put you in a position where that one extra trip is just so easy to do, and ultimately leads to a need for more points.

It's also an appealing sales incentive given that DVC members and FL residents are really the only ones eligible for any sort of Annual Pass discount.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. It doesn't make sense to me that just because I can get, what, a 20% savings on an AP so I'm going to spend $1000's to buy more points so I can take more trips. I don't see the logic in that. Especially if you have to purchase air fare to get down there.

But like you said, to each his own.

 

[tjkraz]

It doesn't make sense to me that just because I can get, what, a 20% savings on an AP so I'm going to spend $1000's to buy more points so I can take more trips. I don't see the logic in that. Especially if you have to purchase air fare to get down there.

It's a little more subtle than that. It's more of a cause-and-effect relationship.

Despite your own take on park admission, the AP discount has been extremely popular among members.

When you put an AP in the hands of a member AND give them the ability to borrow points from a future Use Year, it's like feeding a bad habit. It starts out a "gee, maybe I can squeeze just ONE more trip in before my AP expires."

That progresses to "oh, no...all of my points are gone. I need to add-on!"

And suddenly DVC has sold another 50 or 100 points.

People aren't graciously thanking DVC for the $100 AP discount by spending $5000 on more points...it just happens to work out that way.

Things like transportation costs can vary dramatically from one member to the next. Some members live within a few hours' driving distance. Some are just buying airplane tickets for one or two people rather than a family of 4-5 or more. Some people travel for business and have the luxury of extending a business trip into a long weekend at WDW without any out of pocket expense. Some have airline miles programs which provide free plane tickets.

APs and add-ons may not be your thing but you have to think out of the box. With 450,000+ members, there are a lot of people whose travel habits and point usage is different from yours and mine.

 

[Greysword]

In the ticket portion of the discussion, I would enjoy seeing discounts on MYW tickets, as well, but that is due to my visitation habits (about 1 every one and a half years).

However, I'm not sure the logic in WDWMom's argument is completely sound, as it places an artificial limit on the number of days spent in a park during a week's vacation. I would not do less than 4 park visits during a week's stay; because, these are the big draw of WDW! (I think sometimes my wife would like to limit the park visits to 3 , but I veto that quick .

We haven't taken advantage of the AP discount yet, as my little jaunt to the Middle East has provided discounted military tickets that were too good to pass up. However, we may on our next WDW trip!

That said, I don't need APs to make me buy more points, I have the Point Charts themselves and my DIS friends to help me with that obsession!

In the end, I think someone in a higher point tier would prefer the AP discount to MYW ticket discount, as they are in a good position to take advantage of the savings.

 

[nunzia]

...and..just an FYI..the DVC discount for DLR AP is $20.00..whoop!! and no discount at all on renewals..so it depends on if we are going more than once in a year as to if we get it or not. Now, if they set up the rumored about payment plan for all, then it might make it easier to just continue to have an AP even for those years we only go once..and if they'd like to keep the 10% off merchandise discount that we enjoyed in January and last Sept, then that would help also...:hint hint::

 

[WDWMom]

It's a little more subtle than that. It's more of a cause-and-effect relationship.

Despite your own take on park admission, the AP discount has been extremely popular among members.

Have you actually read my posts??? I have always posted this is how our family does things. I've never said AP's were bad for for others or the discount was a bad thing, but you keep making it sound like that's what I'm saying. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong. I have no problem with people having them or getting them at a discount, which I have said many times.


When you put an AP in the hands of a member AND give them the ability to borrow points from a future Use Year, it's like feeding a bad habit. It starts out a "gee, maybe I can squeeze just ONE more trip in before my AP expires."

That progresses to "oh, no...all of my points are gone. I need to add-on!"

And suddenly DVC has sold another 50 or 100 points.

People aren't graciously thanking DVC for the $100 AP discount by spending $5000 on more points...it just happens to work out that way.

Things like transportation costs can vary dramatically from one member to the next. Some members live within a few hours' driving distance. Some are just buying airplane tickets for one or two people rather than a family of 4-5 or more. Some people travel for business and have the luxury of extending a business trip into a long weekend at WDW without any out of pocket expense. Some have airline miles programs which provide free plane tickets.

APs and add-ons may not be your thing but you have to think out of the box. With 450,000+ members, there are a lot of people whose travel habits and point usage is different from yours and mine.

And this is exactly what I am trying to say, everyone is different, we all don't buy AP's every year like a lot of people post on the DIS. I personally think our families habits are out of the box. We don't do AP's, we don't buy 7 day tickets for a 7 day trip. Those buying habits are in the norm for most people. It is families like ours and our friends that are different

Like I said, we will have to agree to disagree. We have added on twice because we wanted to go more than once a year and needed more points. After being members for 13 years, I know how/why this happens. But I honestly can't say that I would add on because I had an AP and if I spent $5000 (for 50 pts) or $10,000 (for 100) just to get another trip out of my AP's. I guess if one has money to burn it's not an issue, but I'm sure the average family doesn't. Plus don't forget the dues every year. It's just not a financially sound idea, but then again our country is in the financial mess it is in because of this way of thinking. And of course, some people actually have the money to think this way, but I don't know anyone personally.

 

[Dean]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. It doesn't make sense to me that just because I can get, what, a 20% savings on an AP so I'm going to spend $1000's to buy more points so I can take more trips. I don't see the logic in that. Especially if you have to purchase air fare to get down there.

But like you said, to each his own.

It really doesn't matter if the AP works for a given family or not. DVC offers to the members what the Disney Parks offers to DVC. At the present time this is the AP discount. That the AP doesn't work for everyone is beside the point. Why they offer this and not other discounts is up for speculation but it's likely that they are trying to drive people to get the AP and thus spend more days in the park, esp at slower times. This is NOT about giving back to the DVC members. I'm not sure if this appies in your situation but in general, one person's benefit is not necessarily another person's loss. If one decide's the AP with discount isn't for them they haven't lost anything at all even if those getting the AP get a discount.

 

[tjkraz]

Have you actually read my posts??? I have always posted this is how our family does things. I've never said AP's were bad for for others or the discount was a bad thing, but you keep making it sound like that's what I'm saying. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong.

I think you are reading it wrong.

You repeatedly made statements like "I don't understand it" and "I don't get it." Just trying to help explain the logic behind paying just a little bit more and having unlimited access to the parks.

Not trying to change your mind or question your logic. If you are happy with just 2-3 days at the theme parks per year, so be it. But many of us find that paying about $400 for an AP--often as an every-other-year purchase--is an excellent value given the park access is provides.

But I honestly can't say that I would add on because I had an AP and if I spent $5000 (for 50 pts) or $10,000 (for 100) just to get another trip out of my AP's. I guess if one has money to burn it's not an issue, but I'm sure the average family doesn't. Plus don't forget the dues every year. It's just not a financially sound idea, but then again our country is in the financial mess it is in because of this way of thinking.

Again you're sort of missing the point. I'm not saying that people are reaching beyond their means to purchase more points. Simply put, It's a variable that does not increase as the number of points owned and nights stayed per year increases.

I've already made the decision that Annual Passes work best for my family. We want that unlimited park access.

With that decision made, my park admission costs will be exactly the same regardless of whether I own 200 points or 2000 points. I'm certainly not going to throw caution to the wind and buy an unlimited supply of points, but the cost of theme park admission is one hurdle that has been removed even if I'm contemplating upping my ownership to 250 or 300 points.

 

[keishashadow]

Must be our age group/where we are in life...

Like I said, I agree the AP is the right pass for some people, just not us and many families like us. Disney needs to know that if they want our money in the parks, they really aren't going to get it with the current lack of MYW ticket discounts. Maybe they don't want it or don't care.

We're in the same group. We haven't bought APs for years, instead using the 10 day nonexpiry ones...until the price restructure made that unfeasible. We had planned to use up the last of our tickets this year and tentively planning to revisit DL in next summer. Over the last few years, I've found out of 3 vacation trips per year, we rarely spend any trip wholly in WDW. Typically, we incorporate a short DVC stay with a cruise (DCL or otherwise) or do split trip between Universal. We've taken advantage of the FDP and allowed our adult kids to use our unused points or 'rent' them out. My point is that DVC is not one size fits all although I expect my current vacation spending habits (a large proportion being offsite) isn't disney's ideal.

Proposed recent changes to state educational funding in PA, i.e. tuition TBD for the fall, may just be the linch pin where we need to cancel our existing plans this year, reverting to buying an AP and doing all DVC trips until the youngest is out of college. I'd still be.

I love WDW & appreciate the convenience of being a member, especially enjoying the flexibility to utilize my points as i choose. I would hate to see restrictions placed upon my personal usage, (such as a reduced home resort booking window), otherwise I have no issue with extra percs being extended to entice future mega ownersor to keep the current big boys satisfied via what is essentially a reward program based upon total point ownership.

 

[adminjedi]

Must be our age group/where we are in life that makes us different. Everyone we know that goes our route has a family - most 5 or more. Not sure who you know and where they are in life, but I would guess that they no longer have children at home or not many, but I could be wrong, not that it matters. Most of our DVC friends don't want/can't spend $2200 a year or even every other on AP's. Nor can most of them change their vacation weeks. I know we can't because spring break is the same week every year. I would get a 9 days one trip and then probably 3 the next. Not worth it and then we would have to do 3 days of parks in a row along with going into the parks every day the first trip.

Like I said, I agree the AP is the right pass for some people, just not us and many families like us. Disney needs to know that if they want our money in the parks, they really aren't going to get it with the current lack of MYW ticket discounts. Maybe they don't want it or don't care.

We have 5 kids and get APs when we know we will make 2 trips on it. Early July one year, late June the next.