To Infinity and Beyond - Becoming a Better DopeyBadger (Comments Welcome)

[garneska]

@dis_or_dat good to see you chime in, and share your vo2. I would expect yours to be higher than mine but thought you would be closer to compare to. Now that may be my first problem, I probably should not compare against others but I do like to keep track of my own and see how it swings. In this case (I have no idea why) I would like to get it to stay at 50 or above. It seemed a few years ago it was mostly 50, dropped to 48, and now I finally moved it to 49. My goal is to get it at 50 and keep it there. I guess my thought is I am improving my fitness then.

i may be completely off base to use vo2 for fitness improvement. I have not raced in a long time, like most people. Maybe I need to do an all out 5k just to see where I am. Though I am not training for a race.

i think I am just bummed that it’s been a year and looking at another one till things are closer to normal.

 

[dis_or_dat]

@garneska - I wouldn’t beat yourself up about not seeing your VO2 max where you want it.

Maybe try throwing in strides or do a short faster run. I like to try to squeeze in a 3 mile faster run on a treadmill occasionally but I’m not close to preCOVID levels.

do you run on hilly terrain? I noticed that my past VO2 was lower when I ran 8-10 miles/day exclusively on hilly terrain (elevation gain about 680) and I was exhausted and running slowly (plus it was warm - August). Now I mix in flatter trails where I can do longish pace and with the cooler weather my VO2 climbed up.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I think you mentioned this before, but at your level it’s hard to move the needle as much even with significant training vs when you first started and was able to shave off a lot of time with some training.

Absolutely. Inevitably there comes a point at which the gains are harder to come by. Anecdotally, I've seen it mentioned many times that improvement of VO2max is about 20-25% from untrained to potential. Here is such a reference:

https://www.trainerroad.com/blog/how-vo2-max-work-makes-you-fast-the-science-behind-it-all/
I didn't do any digging to find a scientific reference to back that up. But using my VDOT as a surrogate, to see my VO2max increase by 75% in the absence of weight changes (176ish for 2012 marathon and 183 for 2020 mile) is way beyond anything close to the suggestion.

I don’t believe you’ve squeezed out all your juice. I do think you can achieve a sub 3. I’m not a coach by any stretch of the imagination, but sometimes I wonder if you’re training too hard. I know you ascribe to something like an 80:20 and not overloading yourself but sometimes I look at your week and I’m exhausted! You’re definitely seeing results from all your hard work with your recent mile PR and the science and past data back up your regimen. But sometimes science is an art and everyone responds to training differently. Some thrive and some get injured. Anyways, this is just a gut feeling biased by the fact I could never be able to handle your training load and not backed by anything else.

I'd be a fool to deny that there haven't been times I've definitely gone too far with the training. The 2017 Lakefront Marathon training cycle (link) is an example, as was the 2020 Disney training plan (link). In hindsight, I'm not even sure how I was able to get through the 2020 Disney training plan in one piece. I was definitely feeling it on those double days with hard morning cycling and hard evening runs. And those 4-6 hr cycling rides were brutal.

Although, I feel as if these last two training plans have been about trying to find an efficient way forward. What's the least amount of training I can do and reach peak fitness. So the summer/fall 2020 plan was a definite step back from Disney 2020, and this current plan is an even further step back from summer/fall 2020. I'm exactly 9 weeks out from the marathon today. My longest run has been 90 min. I have yet to do any paced work outside of 2-3 total days with strides. So I'd say at least from a running perspective, I'm pretty low volume at the moment. The goal for this marathon training cycle wasn't necessarily to reach peak fitness, but rather just to be healthy and in reasonable shape to run the marathon (and prove/disprove my theories based on past data). My last healthy marathon was Dopey 2018. Since then Chicago 2018 (ankle tendonitis), Disney 2020 (some weird quad injury during the race), and November 2020 time trial (which never happened due to a different ankle injury) have prevented me from a healthy marathon attempt. If the VO2max - 6 points = VDOT is real, then just to reach a PR (3:14) I'd simply need to be at a VO2max of 55. I'm a 56 right now. So I'm essentially in PR shape. It's just a matter of having the endurance necessary to run 26.2 miles, and staying healthy.

I've even pulled back on the original training this time around. Listening to my body during these cycling sessions and moving the needle down on the last few workouts. Some of them have felt a little too easy, but I'm fine with that.

But it's hard to deny that I haven't yet shown at any other race distance that I'm capable of 2:59:59. That's a 5:30 mile (12 seconds better than my PR), 18:49 5k (38 seconds better than my PR), 39 min 10k (54 seconds better than my PR), 1:26:20 HM (2:20 better than my PR). So I'm not there yet on any other distance to believe I'm there for the M quite yet.

Also I think environmental factors play a huge role. You’re able to maintain high paces on slippery snow/ice, but unconsciously your body works harder to keep you from falling so your VO2 max drops.

No doubt about that. And that would be seen in an increased HR for the same pace. That alone would decrease VO2max *superficially. Additionally, running in snow/ice brings in lesser used stabilization muscles. Thankfully, I haven't had a ton of snow on ground runs this year. And I've managed to keep my HR mostly in the correct place by dropping the pace dramatically to match the needed effort. But I have felt some additional soreness when I had some of those snow runs.

Even right before races I’m trained up (because of your plans), but my VO2 max drops which causes major panic attacks. But currently I’m running about only 6 mi/day easy-long run pace and my VO2 max has been 53-56! Makes no sense to me except maybe the weather is cooler and I sometimes throw in strides at the very end.

do you run on hilly terrain? I noticed that my past VO2 was lower when I ran 8-10 miles/day exclusively on hilly terrain (elevation gain about 680) and I was exhausted and running slowly (plus it was warm - August). Now I mix in flatter trails where I can do longish pace and with the cooler weather my VO2 climbed up.

And because of how the Garmin VO2max is calculated we know why this is the case. When it's cooler, your HR is typically less for the same pace than when it's hot. It's simply the relationship between how your body responds to the heat. We all know this because we're all forced to slow down in heated conditions.

Additionally, we know that running uphill at the same pace as flat is harder. So your HR will be worse at the same pace going uphill than flat.

The watch only sees pace and HR during the run, and uses weight and HR zones after the run. So it's not evaluating your change in elevation or the temperature differences (some of the new Garmin watches are starting to take temp into account). So it would be expected that your Garmin VO2max would be higher if you change your route from hilly to flat and you change your environmental conditions from hot to cold. In both cases, those are working in your advantage to improve your HRvPace relationship. The Garmin VO2max is better explained as Garmin VO2peak. As in, what you are capable of based on the current conditions you have been recently training in. Change the conditions, and that relationship between your Garmin VO2max and VDOT may not be at the same delta.

So maybe on your hilly/hot route you were a VO2max 52 and run a 21 min 5k in cold/flat conditions. Whereas maybe on your flat/cold training route you were a VO2max 56 and still run a 21 min 5k in cold/flat conditions. Your true fitness is the same. The training conditions are manipulating the Garmin VO2max output.

@dis_or_dat good to see you chime in, and share your vo2. I would expect yours to be higher than mine but thought you would be closer to compare to. Now that may be my first problem, I probably should not compare against others but I do like to keep track of my own and see how it swings. In this case (I have no idea why) I would like to get it to stay at 50 or above. It seemed a few years ago it was mostly 50, dropped to 48, and now I finally moved it to 49. My goal is to get it at 50 and keep it there. I guess my thought is I am improving my fitness then.

I'd focus on the relationship between your Garmin VO2max on your current watch and your race VDOTs. That'll be the best indication of what you see based on your values.

Case in point, in this post from August 2016, I stated my Garmin VO2max on my Garmin 620 was 64.

Knowing your top speed allows you to get an idea how fast you can run in a race. For example, my VO2max is 64. How did I get that number? Well there's three ways:

In August 2016, my PRs were a 44 min 10k, 1:39 HM and 3:28 M. I feel very confident that I'm faster than that now. Yet my Garmin VO2max was 64 then and 56 now. So what's the deal? Easy, that Garmin VO2max was very misrepresenting. I believe my inputs were causing the issue. At the time, my HRmax was set at 220-age (or what would have been like 189-192 at the time). Is that really the case? No, probably not. When I look at all my runs since 2014 I can see several with a maxHR above 175ish. But not a single one would be what I call realistic. So it's pretty clear my maxHR is probably around 170-175.

So that's to say all of our data is only as good as the inputs. I could be a 56, you could be a 56, T could be a 56, and yet we'd all potentially race different times on a real course head to head. And that's not simply explained just by saying Garmin VO2max is not the end all be all (because it isn't), but more easily that any of us could have wrong inputs that are influencing that value.

So compare to yourself more so than others.

i may be completely off base to use vo2 for fitness improvement. I have not raced in a long time, like most people. Maybe I need to do an all out 5k just to see where I am. Though I am not training for a race.

Realistically, that's the real thing, right? I mean at the end of the day, you're not reaching for a certain Garmin VO2max value for reaching for a number. You want to be faster on the race course. So run a time trial and it'll reasonably reflect where you're at. Regardless of what the Garmin VO2max value says.

My drawing a connection between Garmin VO2max values and VDOT works for me because it's a closed system. My watch has been the same since 2017 and I presume the HR monitor is acting the same today as it did in 2017. I run the same routes every day for years on end. My temps change, and I know that my Garmin VO2max will change along with it. Not because my true fitness has declined, but rather my fitness in these current conditions is that. If I suddenly flew to Canada and it was 40F instead of 90F, then I'd see faster race times regardless of my VO2max/VDOT relationship.

So go out and do a 5k or a mile. It'll reasonably tell you where you are based on the conditions of the time trial.

 

[garneska]

Thanks Billy. Very helpful, I thought my brain started trying to go somewhere it should not. That is why I threw out that maybe i need that time trial. It is probably a better indicator of where I am at. part of it is that it feels like it has been a long time ago, and it has. While running 5Ks are not my favorite, because I feel like after an all out 5k I need a few recovery days, I do usually do 2 to 3 a year. that can give me a good sense of how I am but with the fun year, I think my last all out 5k was in sep 2019. I guess now I am afraid I won’t be able to touch that time.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I think my last all out 5k was in sep 2019. I guess now I am afraid I won’t be able to touch that time.

And so what if you can't? The goal isn't necessarily to be in peak 5k condition at this exact moment. You wanted to find out where your fitness is.

Once you know your current fitness, then you can decide what steps you want to make moving forward.

 

[garneska]

Good point. The goal is not always a 5K. Plus i know when things are a little more normal goal will be Boston, in person the next time. A BQ goal is definitely different from a 5k goal. I am guessing, like most people, I just want to get to normal. For me it’s not. I am not comfortable racing yet (covid and not that I am high risk, I just don’t know what will happen). I know I am one of the last to get vaccinated so I wait. Honestly, I know it will be a while before I am vaccinated. I can’t get my folks a vaccine and they are 83 and 79. no appointments for them. It is frustrating.

sorry to vent but sometimes you just need it, I may have to plan a time trial though.

 

[shellott-hill]

Honestly, I know it will be a while before I am vaccinated. I can’t get my folks a vaccine and they are 83 and 79. no appointments for them. It is frustrating.

I feel your frustration. I fought for an appointment for my mother for 12.5 hours one day last week. Terrible websites and people trying to buck the system made it almost impossible to grab an appointment.

I am not in the USA, but I did hear that people found a loop hole to get their appointments. The basically went into the system to schedule the second shot before the first. Apparently that allowed them to get the appointments easier. I did not probe the people for all the details, but is does show you that people are cheating the system.

 

[DopeyBadger]

9 Weeks to go + HIM Base Mid Volume Cycling + (LIIFT 4 + McMillan Core/Legs)

2/22/21 - M - OFF
2/23/21 - T - Pisgah (60 min; 72 TSS)
2/24/21 - W - 32 min Run @ Easy w/ strides
2/25/21 - R - Cumberland (75 min; 78 TSS) + 31 min Brick Run @ Easy
2/26/21 - F - Pettit (60 min; 39 TSS) + LIIFT4-Back/Biceps
2/27/21 - Sa - Carpathian Peak (75 min; 90 TSS) + 30 min Evening Run @ Easy
2/28/21 - Su - 60 min @ Long Run w/ strides + LIIFT4-Chest/Tri + McMillan Legs

Total Run Miles - 17.7 miles
Total Run Time - 2:32 hours
Total Run TSS - x TSS

Total Biking Time - 4:30 hours
Total Biking TSS - 279 TSS

Total Strength Time - 0:44 hours
Total Strength TSS - x TSS

Total Training Time - 7:46 hours
Total TSS - x TSS

Tuesday

Substituted the original cycling workout with a step down. Although, while a step down it was a difficult workout on paper. Pisgah is 2 sets of 3x2-minute VO2max intervals at 125% FTP. Recovery between intervals is 4 minutes long and between sets of intervals is 8 minutes long. In the end though, I surprised myself and it was easier than expected. Felt strong throughout.


Wednesday

Conditions - Clear, Wind 8mph to 14mph
Start: Temp+Dew = 33°F + 27°F; FL - 25°F
End: Temp+Dew = 31°F + 26°F; FL - 25°F

The PT and I agreed to a few new exercises to help with the healing process. Not there yet. She wants me to go on the treadmill on the next visit to see if I'm favoring something in the stride.

I went super slow on this one. I was noticing that my run training load data has ben drifting up too much from originally written. So that doesn't hurt me today, but it does cause problems with 2-3 weeks to go. So I had to really drop the pace down to make sure I didn't get too far ahead of myself. The GAP was 9:35-9:52 for the first three miles. The HR average was 119. For a run of 30 min or so, that was the lowest HR ever. After the easy run, I did some strides. They were between 4:46 and 7:06 pace. In all it was 3.4 miles, 32 min, 9:20 pace, and HR of 121.


Thursday

Brick day!

Cumberland is a 60-minute sustained segment between 80-85% FTP nestled inside of a 75-minute long workout. Felt good.

Conditions - Clear, Wind 8mph to 15mph
Start: Temp+Dew = 30°F + 27°F; FL - 22°F
End: Temp+Dew = 29°F + 27°F; FL - 22°F

Peaceful easy run. The GAP was nice and steady. All in all it was 3.3 miles, 30 min, 9:17 pace, and HR of 124.


Friday

Pettit is an hour of aerobic Endurance work spent between 60-70% FTP. Felt nice and easy.


Saturday

Pulled back on the cycling workout to one step lower. Carpathian Peak is 3x12-minute over-under intervals with 1-minute valleys at 95% FTP and 2-minute peaks that ascend to 105% FTP. Recoveries between over-unders are 8-minutes long. This one was challenging but good. The over/unders get me every time.

Evening run of 30 min.

Conditions - Partly Cloudy, Wind 7mph to 10mph
Start: Temp+Dew = 39°F + 32°F; FL - 34°F
End: Temp+Dew = 38°F + 32°F; FL - 34°F

Felt good. Ankle still isn't 100% yet. In all it was 3.3 miles, 30 min, 9:12 pace and HR of 127. Did well on keeping the HR low all week on the easy days.


Sunday

End of the recovery week with a 60 min long run.

Conditions - Overcast, Wind 9mph to 17mph
Start: Temp+Dew = 34°F + 32°F; FL - 27°F
End: Temp+Dew = 36°F + 34°F; FL - 27°F



The first two miles were in a good place, but the next 4.6 miles were a little too quick. Ran into the neighbor at around 2.2 miles and had a long chat. The normal route was also a little flooded so I had to reroute my normal drinking pattern. This led to a few extended stops that had some influence on the HR.



But overall the first 6.6 miles felt good. Ankle was alright, but still not where I want it to be. After 6.6 miles I added in some strides. The first 5 were 20 seconds with 40 sec resting intervals where I aimed to maintain an easy pace. The strides were 4:45 to 5:45. After that, I prepped myself for next week's first hard workout with the 15/15 ending for 3 sets. The strides were 5-6 min/mile pace.

All in all it was 7.7 miles, 60 min, 7:44 pace and HR of 139. Happy with it overall. A good end to the recovery week and ready to attack the real training for the last couple of weeks leading into the marathon. My Garmin VO2max was 57 after this run. I'm a bit cautious on the interpretation of that value because of the mid-run pauses which lowered my HR. Regardless, as predicted, I've just started to do weeks with 2 days or less above run training load above 0.





Well, phase 1 is done. The period of training to try and keep my Garmin VO2max suppressed is done. Now I enter Phase 2 where I'm actually trying to train and increase my Garmin VO2max value ahead of the race in less than 9 weeks. The next two weeks of cycling are on the easier side as I ease into the hard running. Thursday is a Brick with Mona Fartlek and Sunday is a 105 min long run.

 

[dis_or_dat]

@garneska - I don't want to threadjack, but this past year has been incredibly difficult with COVID so please don't place additional stress on yourself. I actually stopped looking at my VO2 until @DopeyBadger's posts. Things aren't normal. Some people are able to continue to train at a high level whereas many others cannot. You may have lost some fitness, but that's ok. Most of us have. I believe we will come out of this dark time.

re: vaccines... I'm so sorry your parents and others who should receive them haven't been able to get an appointment. It really makes me upset when I see people gaming the system to jump the line. However, there should be a large shipment from Pfizer in March as well as the approved Johnson&Johnsons vaccine. They should be vaccinated. Depending on where they are there may be many different vaccination sites to choose from and different websites for appointments. Fingers crossed, most of the population should be vaccinated by June.

@DopeyBadger, great job on the vo2 max even though the "resting periods" may have helped. Looking forward to phase 2!

 

[garneska]

Thanks @dis_or_dat. I am sure a lot of it is just the COVID fatigue. i am hopeful with the J and J vaccine getting approved that will help with the appointments. funny in Ohio, my FIL was having the same issue no appointments. He got a call from department of health in Ohio beca he was over 65 and they asked if he had been vaccinated yet. He said no appointments and they helped get him one. He got his first shot last week.

 

[DopeyBadger]

8 Weeks to go + HIM Build Mid Volume Cycling + (LIIFT 4 + McMillan Core/Legs)

3/1/21 - M - OFF
3/2/21 - T - Emerald-3 (60 min; 69 TSS) + McMillan Legs
3/3/21 - W - 40 min Run @ Easy
3/4/21 - R - Cumberland (75 min; 78 TSS) + Brick Mona Fartlek Run (10 min HMT w/ diminishing duration hill fartleks with float RI)
3/5/21 - F - Pettit (60 min; 39 TSS)
3/6/21 - Sa - Mount Wood (60 min; 65 TSS) + 50 min Evening Run @ Easy
3/7/21 - Su - 105 min @ Long Run w/ FF

Total Run Miles - 27.1 miles
Total Run Time - 3:43 hours
Total Run TSS - x TSS

Total Biking Time - 4:15 hours
Total Biking TSS - 251 TSS

Total Strength Time - 0:20 hours
Total Strength TSS - x TSS

Total Training Time - 8:19 hours
Total TSS - x TSS

Tuesday

So we've entered the hard running phase of the training plan (phase 2). There was a little bit of a hiccup in the TrainerRoad training plan at this point that needs correcting as the timing didn't line up perfectly with the switch to the Non-Cancelled marathon. So I'm repeating the down week in the HIM Build plan (this week and the next). I think the timing works out anyways as I introduce hard running I can keep the cycling suppressed for a little extra time.

Emerald -3 is 6x2-minute VO2max repeats at 120% FTP with 3-minute recoveries between intervals and an 8-minute active recovery between sets of intervals. Funny how last week's 125% FTP reps actually felt easier than this week's 120% FTP reps. Just goes to show some days you've got it and other days you don't. Still was able to complete the workout in full though.

Afterwards I did a McMillan Legs workout. G decided to join me for the third time in recent weeks. She always tries to introduce even harder ways to do the moves. I'm good. I don't need them harder. She's a hoot.

I got a new pair of Next%. They were a limited edition BRS. I liked the blue color unlike many of the other much bolder colors. I think it'll match my orange and blue racing singlet well.



I've never shopped with HHRC before, but I liked the little personal note inside. It was a nice touch.

Wednesday

Easy day.

Conditions - Clear, Wind 4mph to 6mph
Start: Temp+Dew = 39°F + 33°F; FL - 37°F
End: Temp+Dew = 37°F + 31°F; FL - 37°F

Actually misremembered how long this run was suppose to be. It was supposed to be 45 min, but I did 40 min. The impact is minimal in the big picture. So no worries. The ankle felt ok, but was still noticeable during the run. In all it was 4.3 miles, 40 min, 9:17 pace, and 127 HR. When I got back to the house the neighbors and kids were over. To be honest I wasn't thrilled about it because I wanted to post-run stretch. But they wanted to chat. So against my better judgement I did. About 40 min later I headed inside. My ankle was not happy about it. It was so incredibly tight and angry. I tried to stretch everything out, but things didn't feel great. Lesson learned.


Thursday

Definitely feeling the ankle throughout the day. It just felt tight and stressed. No limping, but not normal. I also attributed some of the feelings to nerves. Because today was to be my first hard day since November when I injured the ankle in the first place. So I really wanted to be feeling good entering this workout. It's now been a little over 17 weeks since the original injury.

Brick day!

Cumberland is a 60-minute sustained segment between 80-85% FTP nestled inside of a 75-minute long workout. Roughly HIM pace. Felt good throughout. Off the bike and out the door.

Conditions - Clear, Wind 5mph to 7mph
Start: Temp+Dew = 28°F + 22°F; FL - 23°F
End: Temp+Dew = 27°F + 22°F; FL - 23°F

Originally was going to go shorts/tank, but it was just a little too cold for the tank. So I went runDisney long sleeve instead, and then ended up rolling the sleeves up. The plan was to try a Mona Fartlek. McMillan describes it here (link). I was aiming for 10 min of HM Tempo + 4 min RI + 90s + 60s + 30s + 15s reps with equal resting intervals but at floating pace (no walking allowed). The float resting intervals should be long run pace to easy pace. My goal HM Tempo was 6:45 effort, and my goal fartlek pace was around Daniels I effort (around 6:10).



Very happy with the HM Tempo effort. It was a downhill, then uphill route. Very little flat route. So pacing was tough, but effort was constant. So to see a 6:44 and 6:46 on the GAP is good. The final pace was 6:43 min/mile for 10 min and 1.49 miles. Afterwards I started a light jog and just did some back and forths on a stretch of road to help rest the legs a touch. Then, I aimed myself towards uphill. I was going to do the fartleks uphill and the resting periods downhill. Slowly but surely climbing myself up the hill in chunks. The 90s reps were tough, but I was right on effort with a 6:11ish pace. I was also able to maintain a semblance of easy pace during the RI despite feeling gassed. The 60s reps felt good and less gassed at the end. Then for the 30s reps I turned up the effort a bit. Not quite mile effort, but not quite I effort anymore. Rep 15 looks slow, but that's because I was just doing circles near the top of the hill. I was getting ready to head home for the home stretch of reps with 15s on and 15s off. Overall I'm pleased with the workout. The ankle hurt here and there. But I diligently stayed in the middle of the street during this run so I had less issues overall. Although running in the middle of the street isn't always feasible. In total it was 3.9 miles in 29 min at 7:25 pace and 148 HR. Although that's mostly irrelevant information given the nature of this workout.


Friday

Nothing special. Just an easier cycling ride. Pettit is an hour of aerobic Endurance work spent between 60-70% FTP. It was the WandaVision season finale and so Steph and G wanted me done quick.


Saturday

Mount Wood is 3x8-minute over-under intervals alternating between 3 minutes at 95% FTP and 1 minute at 105% FTP with 6-minute recoveries between intervals. An easier over/under but by no means easy.

That afternoon was the easy run.

Conditions - Clear, Wind 4mph to 8mph
Start: Temp+Dew = 41°F + 28°F; FL - 39°F
End: Temp+Dew = 40°F + 28°F; FL - 39°F

Nothing special. The ankle felt ok, but not great. The run was easy as intended. In all it was 5.5 miles, 50 min, 9:08 pace, and 131 HR.


Sunday

Long run day! Going up to 105 min now. Still trying to stay between a 7:45-8:00 min/mile. First run over 90 min which I was finally introducing nutrition into the activity. I did a PB spoon to start the morning off, then a SIS Beta (80g carb) drink right prior to start (to simulate the more expensive Maurten), then a concentrated few oz of Tailwind at 45 min, Maurten gel at 60 min, and Egel at 75 min. All while also consuming about 60 oz of water throughout the run (typically at the 30 min mark intervals).

Conditions - Clear, Wind 10mph to 18mph
Start: Temp+Dew = 29°F + 23°F; FL - 19°F
End: Temp+Dew = 34°F + 26°F; FL - 19°F

Shorts and tank and I don't care. Although it definitely felt warmer than this to me.



Overall it felt good. The ankle came and went throughout the run. I wasn't as consistent on GAP as I'd like to be. The three laps were 32:15, 32:00, and 32:00. So fairly consistent on the lap basis. Since the ankle really doesn't like left turns, then I decided not to do my normal fast finish looped route and instead ran down the hill and back up it. I was aiming for M Tempo effort. I was in that general vicinity with a 7:15 and 7:02 GAP for the 1.2 miles. Garmin VO2max has been hovering around a 56-57, so based on delta of -6 thats a VDOT of 50-51. Which is a M Tempo of 7:09-7:17. So looks like my effort matched what the data says is a reasonable M Tempo pace at the moment. I'll probably aim around a 7:10 for the upcoming M Tempo brick next week given how this went. All in all it was a good long run. Ended up at 13.5 miles in 105 min at 7:48 pace with HR of 141.

Garmin VO2max ended up at 56 as I sort of predicted it would be.





I find it interesting that I saw a very similar 57-56 dip the last time around in this training methodology as well. Interestingly 56 is my most common fitness level since 2017, so it's like 57 is the cutoff between typical me and starting to peak me.

Next week is easier in some respects. I do have a 40 min morning run on Thursday. Never been a fan, but as I said at the start of this training plan I really don't do well with hard cycling workouts at 4am. So I'm trying to switch the order of these weekday doubles with the run in the morning instead to see if that facilitates a better cycling workout. On Saturday is a 75 min HIM cycle + 45 min M Tempo brick. So I'm looking forward to that. I also have a follow-up PT on Wednesday and she wants me on the tread to look for problems. So we'll see on that end as well.

 

[SheHulk]

*I* think your shoes are dope!

 

[DopeyBadger]

*I* think your shoes are dope!

If you zoom in close you can see the blue is really "BRS" written in weird font over and over again.

 

[DopeyBadger]

7 Weeks to go + HIM Build Mid Volume Cycling + (LIIFT 4 + McMillan Core/Legs)

3/8/21 - M - OFF
3/9/21 - T - Pettit-1 (60 min; 27 TSS)
3/10/21 - W - 40 min Run @ Easy w/ Strides
3/11/21 - R - 40 min Run @ Easy (morning) + Mount Wood (60 min; 65 TSS) + McMillan Legs
3/12/21 - F - Pettit-1 (60 min; 27 TSS)
3/13/21 - Sa - Cumberland-2 (75 min; 69 TSS) + Brick 43 min @ M Tempo
3/14/21 - Su - 80 min @ Long Run + LIIFT4-Back/Biceps + McMillan Legs

Total Run Miles - 25.1 miles
Total Run Time - 3:23 hours
Total Run TSS - x TSS

Total Biking Time - 4:15 hours
Total Biking TSS - 188 TSS

Total Strength Time - 0:56 hours
Total Strength TSS - x TSS

Total Training Time - 8:34 hours
Total TSS - x TSS

Tuesday

My quad muscle next to my knee was still sore from the weekend. I didn't like how I hadn't fully recovered. So I decided I needed to make some adjustments to the training plan. I went through and dropped several of the cycling workouts down in length and intensity. Moved some cycling workouts from actual workouts to recovery rides instead. And I was aggressive in making this week's training a true recovery week because last week didn't feel recovery enough. Healthy, not necessarily fast.

Pettit -1 is an hour of light Endurance work spent mostly between 50-60% FTP. No issues and felt better after the cycling ride.


Wednesday

I had my PT appointment in the morning. She's worried that the progress has plateaued. She put me on the treadmill as desired. The good news is the McMillan legs workouts are paying off. The PT said she can tell a difference in my hip drop compared to the notes from the last treadmill session. The only thing she picked up on is that my left foot does not flex during my foot strikes. My right foot "toes off" and flexes during the run motion. But the left foot doesn't really move throughout the process. She wanted me to try and focus on "toeing off" during the motion of my running. Although she couldn't be certain whether the lack of movement in the left foot is the cause for the injury or a symptom of the injury.

I mentioned this toe off thing to Steph and she mentioned that it's been around longer than the injury. She says its there when I walk, when I go up/down stairs, and when she's seen me run in the past. So it's not likely a symptom and is probably the cause.

An easy 40 min run.

Conditions - Overcast, Wind 19mph to 36mph
Start: Temp+Dew = 61°F + 54°F; FL - 61°F
End: Temp+Dew = 61°F + 54°F; FL - 61°F

A little warmer March day. I focused hard on toeing off. It made a world of a difference. The pain wasn't completely gone, but every time it seemed to flare up if I toed, then I could get it to diminish. So I think we're really cooking now. Not perfect, but an instant improvement. The run was decent. It ended up being 4.5 miles in 40 min at 9:00 min/mile pace at HR of 133. The strides were strong with GAPs in the 4:50-5:30 range.


Thursday

Early morning. I was up at 4am. Trying running this time around instead of hard cycling in the mornings.

Conditions - Clear, Wind 17mph to 33mph
Start: Temp+Dew = 37°F + 32°F; FL - 28°F
End: Temp+Dew = 36°F + 32°F; FL - 28°F

Out the door at 4:35am. Nothing really to mention. The ankle continued to hold up and whenever I had flares I could start to toe to get it to stop. Not as much as the day prior, but I'm saying that's because of the 4:30am run time. All in all it was 4.4 miles in 40 min at 9:09 pace with HR of 130 bpm.

Mount Wood is 3x8-minute over-under intervals alternating between 3 minutes at 95% FTP and 1 minute at 105% FTP with 6-minute recoveries between intervals. Things felt fine throughout the workout. Hard but not impossible.


Friday

Pettit -1 is an hour of light Endurance work spent mostly between 50-60% FTP. No issues.


Saturday

Brick day with M Tempo! Let's do this!

Cumberland -2 is a continuous 60-minute stretch of work between 75-80% FTP nestled inside of a 75-minute workout. Felt good throughout.

Conditions - Partly Cloudy, Wind 8mph to 11mph
Start: Temp+Dew = 43°F + 28°F; FL - 38°F
End: Temp+Dew = 46°F + 29°F; FL - 38°F

The goal was to aim for a 7:10 marathon pace (3:07 marathon and VDOT 51 for Garmin VO2max 57). I pre-calculated the GAP splits based on my route - 6:55, 7:12, 7:19, 7:14, 6:56, 7:16.



The first three were on point, but felt too fast to be sustainable. It caught up to me for the last three miles. Despite the 7:39 pace in the last mile, the GAP shows near equivalence with the other two proceeding. Fitness feels like M Tempo is closer to 7:20 pace than 7:10 pace at the moment based on this run. I was hoping for better, but I'll take it. The good news is I maintained the ankle health and it felt ok throughout most of the run.


Sunday

Shortish long run day.

Conditions - Mostly Cloudy, Wind 12mph to 23mph
Start: Temp+Dew = 39°F + 28°F; FL - 32°F
End: Temp+Dew = 42°F + 26°F; FL - 32°F



This run felt good. Nice and easy for the large majority of the run. In a good groove throughout. The ankle felt good. All in all it was 10.4 miles in 80 min at 7:44 pace with HR of 142. I certainly can't complain. The Garmin VO2max was 56 after this run.



Did a LIIFT4 Back and Biceps and McMillan Legs in the afternoon.

Feeling good. Thought the drop in cycling intensity helped. The training ramps up again next week. Only 7 weeks to go!

 

[dis_or_dat]

Hopefully the toeing off will help a lot. Funnily, I'm starting to get some knee pain with my slow runs (ie most of my runs!) and even walking - to the point I catch myself because of the sharp pain. But no issues with fast runs. No real change in my runs for months. Strange.

Anyways, wondering what you thought of the age graded vdot's?

 

[DopeyBadger]

Anyways, wondering what you thought of the age graded vdot's?

The goal was to see how much gains were made over time. Most of the data sets shared spanned 4-7 years. Some as long as 19 years. During those time frames we saw fairly similar gains over time (hovering around 20-40%). So for this to be skewed further we'd need to see dramatic differences in performance due to age in a short timeframe of 4-7 years.

I haven't been able to find really good data yet on age grading.

https://runnersconnect.net/age-grading/http://www.bigdatarunning.com/gag/
But if I'm to believe this graph from the bigdatarunning blog:



Then the world records do follow the best age grading calculator, but age group local winners show something of a slightly different curve. So the locals and world record holders don't quite follow the same age grading process. But suffice to say, for the locals, theres some difference between 35 and 55 years old. A 10 mph 5k would be an 18:40, whereas a 9 mph 5k would be a 20:44. The VDOT difference being a 54 vs 47.8. So a 6.2 drop (or 13% drop) in the span of 20 years. But if I go 35 vs 50 yo (instead of 55), then you're looking at a VDOT drop of 3.2 (6%). Any 4-7 year span covering the ages of 50 or less looks to be roughly equal. Then after 50 yo is when you start to see a noticeable drop. It would seem even the best age grading calculator is over inflating % performance for local runners below the age of around 60. But I'm not well versed and did this quickly, so maybe I misinterpreted his conclusions.

 

[DopeyBadger]

6 Weeks to go + HIM Build Mid Volume Cycling + (LIIFT 4 + McMillan Core/Legs)

3/15/21 - M - OFF
3/16/21 - T - Hunger-5 (90 min; 92 TSS) + McMillan Legs
3/17/21 - W - 40 min Run @ Easy
3/18/21 - R - Pioneer-2 (60 min; 54 TSS) + Brick Mona Fartlek (15 min HMT + decreasing duration uphill fartlek w/ float RI)
3/19/21 - F - Pettit-1 (60 min; 27 TSS) + LIIFT4 Shoulders
3/20/21 - Sa - Perkins-1 (120 min; 75 TSS) + 63 min Evening Run @ Easy
3/21/21 - Su - 120 min @ Long Run w/ FF

Total Run Miles - 31.3 miles
Total Run Time - 4:17 hours
Total Run TSS - x TSS

Total Biking Time - 5:30 hours
Total Biking TSS - 248 TSS

Total Strength Time - 0:50 hours
Total Strength TSS - x TSS

Total Training Time - 10:37 hours
Total TSS - x TSS

Tuesday

So this cycling activity started off me backing off the difficulty of the remainder of the cycling workouts. Easier, but not easy.
Hunger -5 is another pyramid-format VO2max workout, but this time it grows the number of 15/15's (at 110% FTP & 88% FTP) from 3 per set up to 11 before stepping back down to where it started. Occasional 88% FTP floats last as long as 30 seconds and recoveries between each set last roughly as long as the set preceding it. Felt like a good workout. Not overly difficult, but challenging.

Afterwards, I did the McMillan Legs workout.


Wednesday

Easy day!

Conditions - 🌧 Rain, Wind 11mph to 19mph
Start: Temp+Dew = 35°F + 28°F; FL - 27°F
End: Temp+Dew = 35°F + 28°F; FL - 27°F

Rain won't slow me down! Nothing to note. The toe off strategy continues to work well for relieving the ankle pain. All in all it was 4.5 miles in 40 min at 8:56 pace with HR of 127. All good things.


Thursday

Brick day! Second attempt at the Mona Fartlek.

Started off with a lower intensity cycling endurance workout. Not quite IM pace but not quite HIM pace. Pioneer -2 is a 45-minute segment between 75-80% FTP nestled inside of an hour-long workout.

Conditions - Partly Cloudy, Wind 17mph to 31mph
Start: Temp+Dew = 40°F + 22°F; FL - 31°F
End: Temp+Dew = 38°F + 21°F; FL - 31°F

So started off with 15 min of HM tempo, then a 4 min RI, then descending duration uphill fartleks with equal floating resting intervals.



A hilly route so the GAP is important. The 2.25 miles of GAP at 6:41, 6:46, and 6:43 with the actual pace average of 6:40. The HMT actually felt really smooth and strong. Happy with how that felt. I rested for 4 min, and then set out at my uphill fartleks. Went way too fast on the first two and I was sucking major air. Now we can see why. 5:57 and 5:53 is definitely pretty quick. You can tell that despite the lower durations of the remaining fartlek the pace slowed somewhat. Although arguably close to the desired pace. All in all, it was good. Felt really strong throughout this whole workout. The ankle felt good as well. Really happy with how this turned out.


Friday

Four day weekend! Watching the NCAA tourny first/second round. Some of the best sports days of the year. Just an easy cycling workout before the games strated.

Pettit -1 is an hour of light Endurance work spent mostly between 50-60% FTP.

Afterwards, I did a LIIFT4 Shoulders workout.


Saturday

Lots of projects to do around the house this weekend. So it was a late night watching basketball and then an early morning to get everything done before the projects started.

Perkins -1 is a highly varied 2 hours of aerobic Endurance riding ranging from 50-65% FTP. Nice and easy cycling workout. No issues.

Then, we set up Dizzy's new invisible fence. We got super lucky because the people behind us were getting their cable line trenched. So we proposed to the workers that they do a quick run around with the trencher for our invisible fence. They were more than happy to help. So it saved us hours of work.

After that we had a tall task on our agenda. Carry our brand new unassembled Nordictrack 2450 treadmill from the garage down to the basement workout room. Man alive, that thing was an absolute beast. I'm so so thankful none of us got seriously injured. So heavy and awkward to carry the base down. I'm also thankful we never got a Peloton. No way it would have made the corner. We just barely made it with the Nordictrack which is a few inches shorter. Steph is super excited about it. We saved the assembly for Sunday.

Then Steph left for a small goodbye party. She ended up staying a bit later than anticipated, so my run got pushed to later in the evening than I would have preferred. Before the run I noticed a small bruise on my left knee and some slight swelling. Assuming it came from the treadmill. No clue when it happened though. Was a little nervous I did something potentially serious. Thankfully, almost zero issues.

Conditions - Clear, Wind 11mph to 18mph
Start: Temp+Dew = 54°F + 26°F; FL - 53°F
End: Temp+Dew = 49°F + 27°F; FL - 53°F

Nothing terribly remarkable. The run felt fine. The ankle is still tolerating the workload with the change in toeing off. It was suppose to be 60 min, but I misjudged distance on one of the turns with some bad math. So ended up at 64 min, 7.2 miles, 8:59 pace, and HR of 130.


Sunday

Another later night and early morning. Long run day!

Conditions - Clear, Wind 11mph to 23mph
Start: Temp+Dew = 36°F + 30°F; FL - 29°F
End: Temp+Dew = 46°F + 33°F; FL - 29°F



The stretching felt sluggish and tight. Usually an indication I won't be on the top of my game. Once I started running, that's how it felt as well. I decided not to push it today and just accept the slightly slower long run pace today. My range is 7:45-8:00, so I figured being towards the top end was ok. And if I loosened up late, then I'd take advantage. The first lap was 33:00, the second lap 32:45, and the third lap 32:03. Finished that off and aimed for the last 21 min. Once I hit around 9-10 miles is when the legs started opening up a little. So I pushed the pace a bit more. After I hit 10 min to go, I moved into a fast finish. Looks like that ended up being 1.35 miles in 10 min at 7:24 pace (7:12 GAP). Felt like M Tempo pace and the HR agrees. All in all it was 120 min, 15.2 miles, 7:54 pace and HR of 139. Garmin VO2max stayed at 56. Really felt on the fringe of moving to 57 all week, but it didn't happen. Happy with how it went overall.

Afterwards I spent the day building the new treadmill and mounting the basement TV.







I'm pretty with how it turned out. The medal display turned out nice.

Then we started working on Gs new "grown up girl" room off the kitchen. We're putting in some bookcases with a window seat and a pink couch. She's pretty stoked. Didn't get finished with that quite yet, but making good progress all around.

Next week is a down week. The highlight is the IM-HIM 105 min cycle + 60 min M Tempo on Saturday.

 

[dobball23]

Nice workout room! I like the medal display.

Is the treadmill for you or Steph? I don't picture you being much of a treadmill runner.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Nice workout room! I like the medal display.

Is the treadmill for you or Steph? I don't picture you being much of a treadmill runner.

It’s for Steph. I may use it on a very rare occasion, but I’m not really planning on it. A few years ago when my Raynauds was really bad I thought I wouldn’t be able to winter run anymore. But this past winter was mostly fine. Timing wise she works out around 4-6am and didn’t really like running outside at those times.

 

[michigandergirl]

Carry our brand new unassembled Nordictrack 2450 treadmill from the garage down to the basement workout room. Man alive, that thing was an absolute beast. I'm so so thankful none of us got seriously injured. So heavy and awkward to carry the base down.

We bought the same treadmill! My husband and two teenage sons managed to get it in the basement, but it almost didn't make the corner at the bottom of the stairs and the weight of it punched a whole in our drywall.