Toddler kicked off of Airtran Flight!

However, your dissenting opinion does exactly that - you pass judgement on the actions of the flight crew who made the decision to put the screaming 3-year old and her parents off the plane in order to get the other 112 people into the air.

And of course, you're also passing judgement on those of us who pass judgement on others.

I am sorry that you feel I have passed judgement on your statements and that my postings have been misinterpreted.

I actually said that I supported the airline's decision and agreed that they had provided appropriate compensation to the family.

What I was trying to say was that I do not feel that we were given enough information to follow that support with an attack on the parents and their parenting skills.

Clearly we disagree, but without disagreement these conversations would never begin. Can we agree to disagree?
 
This is from the newsclip:

"She was removed because "she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn't get in her seat" during boarding, Graham-Weaver said."

Yikes!

When my son was that age, just one steely glance from me and that was it! Airtrans was very generous.
 
I'm a mom and I think I do well with my children. However, when a three year old is in a full blown tantrum no "look" or "evil eye" is going to register with them - it's too out of control when you hit full blown tantrum mode.

That being said, there were two parents and one child - pick the kid up, hold her down and strap her in. They weren't booted off the flight for a crying/screaming kid, they were booted off because they wouldn't/couldn't get the child buckled in the seat for take-off.

While I'm sure all the other passengers wouldn't want a screaming kid on board I have to believe it does happen.

hugs -

lisa
 
This is for those of you that think the family did not get enough time. This is a quote from a witness that responded on ABC News.com message board.


Quote:
"I was at the gate in Ft. Meyers waiting for the Air Tran flight to take off for Boston so I could board the next arriving flight that would be headed to Atlanta. I witnessed this family 30 minutes prior to their flight taking off and this child was disobedient and unruly to the parents. Several waiting passengers commented on the lack of control. Then I saw the family deplane and the child was absolutely out of control for another 30 to 40 minutes. She was screaming, kicking, and crawling across the floor. The mother had NO control and the father ignored the situation. I am upset that the media has played this as a sympathetic situation to the parents as it was clearly an issue of poor parenting. I too am the mother of two children and this would have NEVER occured as I would have gotten both myself and my child away from the other passengers had either of my children behaved this way."

Check out the thread on this on the CB. 99.9 percent seem to think Airtran did the right thing. And applaud them for it.
 
WHile I agree with what AirTran did, I also want to say that not every child is going to respond to "a look" or "the eyes." Some children need to just cry and vent their frustrations for several minutes. If they keep at it and don't calm down, they should be removed and taken to another place to calm down so others aren't disturbed. Sometimes ignoring the tantrum works too, but not always. Every child is different and what works for some may not work for others. We all know how airlines can be. Maybe the kid was tired and hungry..what kid wouldn't take a tantrum. SHe didn't sound like a prepard mom.
 
Wow... Personally, I think the airline over compensated them. I can't believe they are getting that much! They should have just let them board another flight and that's it.

The airline did the right thing. It was either that or allow the family to remain on board and then have to face the possibility of having 115 other unhappy passengers to deal with and many complaints to the airline afterwards.

Obviously, from the second last post, this childs behavior was beyond appropriate and acceptable. Children do throw tantrums (I have 2 so I do know) HOWEVER... there is a time during this tantrum that the parent steps in and takes control and obviously, these parents didn't. Or... they simply do not know how to handle their child.

Maybe the staff witnessed the parents sitting back and doing nothing about their unruly child and made the decision based on this fact. Had they seen some type of attempt to disipline or "comfort', then perhaps they would have allowed them a bit more time. Something tells me that no time at all was spent on paying attention to what their child was doing. Some parents like to ignore and pretend like nothing is going on.

Under the seat??? Come on.... that's absurd. You are on a plane.... there are 2 of you, it's almost time for take off and your child has time to disappear under a seat? They could have strapped their child in immediately and then dealt with the comforting and distracting afterwards. Those seatbelts are hard enough to take off when you are an adult! I'm almost 100% sure that a 3 year old wouldn't figure out how to slip out of that.

I'm sure there will be many sides to this story and the parents are probably going to end up milking this for all it's worth now that they see how much they have already received.

Definitely not a pleasant situation for anyone but parents need to be parents and sometimes they just arn't.
 
AirTran 1, no control parents 0
My Dw and I were discussing this at dinner last night and I laughed so hard when my wife said that all she would do in that situation would be to just ask the stewardess for one minute alone in the bathroom with our DD and thats all that would be needed. A good spank worked for us when we were young.

:thumbsup2 :thumbsup2
There is obviously a total lack of control with this child. Every child has a melt down at some time or other, for whatever reason but if these parents don't learn to control their daughter with some old fashioned discipline, how is she ever going to learn to control herself? I think the airline gave the parents much more than they deserved - a refund of their money would have been enough.
 
I am also surprised with all that AirTran gave them. It can't be easy sometimes taking a child on a plane, but........I don't believe that anyone else should be overly inconvenienced (15 minutes is plenty) because of someone's child. I never had a problem with any of my children on a plane, thank goodness!
 
I have to put in my 2 cents. I truly believe Airtran did the right thing, no question about it. But everyone is making comments about the parents not being able to control their child. I am the mother of an adhd kid who when younger could have major meltdowns. And I mean major. He could hit, bite, kick, etc. I say this because we really don't know the situation with this child. Yes, she could be a spoiled brat whose parents let her run amuck, or be a child with issues. That being said, if you know your child will flip out, don't put them in a situation like that.

When my son was 4, we went to disney and he was so excited. I bought some brand new toys for him to play with on the plane. I didn't give them to him until we were onboard, so he was thrilled and kept occupied (except for maybe kicking the seat in front of him).

If you know your child has a tendency to misbehave, then plan accordingly. If your child is so freaked out about being on a plane, then don't do it.

If I were a passenger on that plane, I would have been quite angry about the flight being delayed because of a 3 year old taking a tantrum. I would have been the 1st one to say, get them off the plane.
 
I saw the interview on GMA with the parents and the little girl. The didn't mention that she might ADHD - not that it was their responsibility to do so... but they kept on insisting that she was such a good girl and really never acted up. The blamed it on an ear problems... which I certainly agree that if the little girl had an ear problems then flying could be quite painful. But if that was the case shouldn't they have taken that into consideration before putting her on the plane to get her TO Florida. And possible a little medication to help her travel....

I hate to say it because I have children of my own (now teenagers) but I am sooooooooooo glad when I get on a plane and am NOT seated by little kids.... usually makes for a quieter flight. I think Airtran acted responsibly and their compensation was fair.
 
I have to put in my 2 cents. I truly believe Airtran did the right thing, no question about it. But everyone is making comments about the parents not being able to control their child. I am the mother of an adhd kid who when younger could have major meltdowns. And I mean major. He could hit, bite, kick, etc. I say this because we really don't know the situation with this child. Yes, she could be a spoiled brat whose parents let her run amuck, or be a child with issues. That being said, if you know your child will flip out, don't put them in a situation like that.

When my son was 4, we went to disney and he was so excited. I bought some brand new toys for him to play with on the plane. I didn't give them to him until we were onboard, so he was thrilled and kept occupied (except for maybe kicking the seat in front of him).

If you know your child has a tendency to misbehave, then plan accordingly. If your child is so freaked out about being on a plane, then don't do it.

If I were a passenger on that plane, I would have been quite angry about the flight being delayed because of a 3 year old taking a tantrum. I would have been the 1st one to say, get them off the plane.
Quite true - we should never assume that just because a kid is acting up it means they have bad parents.

However, the measure of a parent is not just how the kid behaves, but how the parents themselves react to that behavior.

The reason that the flight crew put the family off the plane was not that the kid was screaming, and not that the kid was throwing a tantrum. The flight crew put them off the plane because the parents refused to pick up the little girl and put her into her seat - and federal law prohibits pushing back from the gate until all passengers over 3 years of age are belted securely into their own seats.

The measure of these parents is not how the kid was behaving; after all, all kids throw tantrums, all kids yell, and all kids refuse to obey sometimes, no matter how much of a scary evil eye you might give them. The measure of these parents was how they reacted to the kids behavior, which was to try reasoning with and consoling a 3-year old in a tantrum, all the while delaying 112 other passengers, a $40 million airplane burning expensive jet fuel, and who know how many other passengers who were waiting to board that flight at the stopovers along the way.

In essence, it was not the kids behavior that was at issue at all, it was the parents' behavior. And it wasn't their parenting skill or techniques that were at issue, either - it was their rudeness and lack of consideration for the schedules of their fellow passengers, because they wouldn't pick up a 3-year old girl, put her into an airplane seat, and buckle her seatbelt.

Bill Cosby once said, "You tell a child to come here and the child says NO, you go get him, that's YES!"
 
I totally agree. I wasn't aware that the parents refused. What did they expect, everyone to be delayed because they didn't want to act. Pick that kid up and put her in her seat. Then look her straight in the eye and say "STOP". Those people are lucky I wasn't sitting next to them.
 
This is for those of you that think the family did not get enough time. This is a quote from a witness that responded on ABC News.com message board.


Quote:
"I was at the gate in Ft. Meyers waiting for the Air Tran flight to take off for Boston so I could board the next arriving flight that would be headed to Atlanta. I witnessed this family 30 minutes prior to their flight taking off and this child was disobedient and unruly to the parents. Several waiting passengers commented on the lack of control. Then I saw the family deplane and the child was absolutely out of control for another 30 to 40 minutes. She was screaming, kicking, and crawling across the floor. The mother had NO control and the father ignored the situation. I am upset that the media has played this as a sympathetic situation to the parents as it was clearly an issue of poor parenting. I too am the mother of two children and this would have NEVER occured as I would have gotten both myself and my child away from the other passengers had either of my children behaved this way."

Check out the thread on this on the CB. 99.9 percent seem to think Airtran did the right thing. And applaud them for it.

And you know what- I believe that is exactly true. I have only saw one little interview of the parents on tv the other night and from the way the child behaved I believe every word of what you quoted above. Even in the interview the mother was trying to sound all sympathetic to her "plight" and how humiliated she was, the father just sat there, and what was the girl doing? CLIMBING all over the parents, primarily the mother, the entire time she was trying to talk.
Why was she not humiliated by how her child behaved but was humiliated that she had to be removed?

I agree with them removing the family because they wouldn't do what they had to do, to get her in her seatbelt.
I do not agree with compensation given, double, because of it. I would think they should get another fight- but double the flights and all of it free? I agree with what someone else said- it might give a lot of people the idea to either give a bunch of sugar (or non-medicate an ADHD child that regularly takes medication) just so they can get a free flight then plus another free flight later! That's quite a motivation to do so!

I do have a problem with some things I have read (on other boards, not this one) where it seems people are in total agreement with even removing families that have crying babies, loud children, etc. I think the airlines would have a big problem if they were to go the way of how these people are thinking and start throwing off any children that are in the least way annoying to others. It's a slippery slope to go down. Sure babies crying is annoying, sure a loud toddler or fidgety toddler is annoying especially if you are close by- but you know what? There are a lot of other things that are annoying too- would they throw people off for those reasons? like extreme body odor, passengers that won't shut up and annoy you, passengers that play music not using headsets or have it so loud you can still hear the bass/etc, passengers that invade your personal space of your seat/etc. in various ways, passengers that get up and smoosh their way by you repeatedly to go to the bathroom/etc. I can think of a million ways even adult passengers can be "annoying". I hope they keep their rules where they would only remove passengers if the child wasn't following guidelines they have to keep- like putting on a seatbelt and don't start throwing off families with children that are just the least bit annoying.
And I'm only saying that because like I said, I have read on many other boards and comments under news articles/etc. where people are complaining about children being loud, babies crying, etc. and like rooting for those families getting thrown off. And so I'm just saying I hope the airlines aren't taking note of those comments and start taking that type of action.

(I must note that I have flown several times with 3 children of various ages and have never had a problem with my children being loud, annoying, etc. They may not be the best behaved children in ALL situations but they are good on the plane for a variety of reasons- first and foremost that I plan ahead for every desire/need/want they have during the flight from snacks to things to do- but also because they are excited to go to Disney world and certainly don't want to start out their trip being grounded while there. LOL Yes, even my youngest understood the consequences of bad behavior- loss of privileges/etc. So they are on their best behavior when the consequence would be loss of privileges/not getting things they want/etc. while at DISNEY WORLD, for crying out loud. LOL And I have been annoyed by other children, crying babies, etc. while on flights- although probably less annoyed than other people without children who haven't learned to tune most of that out like I have. LOL BUT I would be upset if I saw a family with a toddler just crying or a crying baby or something like that- thrown off a flight simply for annoying other passengers. If they are going to do that- then they would need to throw off every annoying passenger, including adults!)
 
A 3 year old wouldn't GET Into her seat.... that right there tells me these 2 have NO right being parents. you PUT her in her seat. If she's hitting you she's obviously had no discipline... a swift spank to the butt... and PUT her in her seat.. why do you have to CONSOLE a child who is HITTING you?

I saw the news story too... she was all over her mom. Little spoiled girl probably gets her way.

If I were on that plane.. especially if I had a connecting flight... I'd have been livid about the 15 minutes as is. Good for them.. it only angers me that they've apologized to the family. They had NO reason to.
 
I recently returned from Disney with my 18 month old son. We flew down with him. We didn't pay for his own ticket so sat in our laps. When we initially boarded the plane he was terrified, he wasn't throwing a tantrum...it was terror in his eyes. He was scared of being confined in the plane, but as parents we held him, talked to him, and consoled him. My husband happened to have a window seat so he sat on his lap and had him look at the planes that were moving next to us. He settled down after a few minutes, as soon as we were off the ground he was sleeping.

On the way home the flight had several rows available so they let us move to 3 open seats to spread out. We had no issues on the flight home.

I agree with the previous poster about adults who are annoying. On the flight home I happened to sit behind a passenger who apparently had some bad gas. I couldn't wait to get off the plane and get some fresh air. It was a awful 2 hours.
 
No doubt... ^

On a recent flight I was on a SMALL plane for about 3 hrs.. so not just a quickie flight... and the woman next to me was large. I'm not small by ANY means so the 2 of us next to eachother was a tight fit. It was the last seat so it was a tight fit from leg to the seat in front of me (I'm almost 5'10')... But she was large tothe point that she was partially sitting in my seat as well.... which would've been still very uncomfy .. I was pushed against the window.. the engine right in the window so can't even look out to pretend to have more space... again, all fine and well but for whatever reason she decided she wanted to lay sideways so that it wasn't her SIDE against me.. it was her entire rear end pushed against me.. the WHOLE THING not just the side of it.

Needless to say I prayed SHE didn't have a gas issue. It was VERY uncomfy and awkward and kinda gross.
 
This family is from my area. Here is a snippet from a local newspaper interview.

"So on Jan. 11, the family flew from Logan Airport to Fort Meyers on AirTran Airways, and even though it was Elly’s first plane trip she behaved like a dream and spent most of the flight coloring in her coloring book and watching movies on a portable DVD player.

“She was great,” her mom remembered. “When we made our descent into Florida we could see the water and she shouted, ‘Look, mommy, there’s the beach where we go swimming,’ and everyone laughed.”


Regarding the flight home they write:

"Then came … The Boarding. Suddenly and without warning, angelic little Elly morphed into every parents’ nightmare.

Her mom thinks it may have been because of the ear surgery Elly underwent earlier this month, and perhaps her memory of the discomfort and ear pressure she endured during the plane’s descent into Florida. For whatever reason, when they got on the plane, Elly started to cry and wouldn’t stop. Nor would she sit down — she plopped herself down on the floor in front of her seat and proceeded to throw a temper tantrum.

“I was trying to console her and the stewardess came over and said, ‘Did you buy that seat for her?’ remembers Ms. Kulesza, 31, who is four months pregnant. “I said yes, and she told me my daughter needs to sit in it. I told her I was trying.”

Moments later, an AirTran Airways employee armed with a walkie-talkie addressed Mr. Kulesza.

“Sir, you need to get her under control,” she said.

“We’re trying,” Mr. Kulesza noted.

The passengers, meanwhile, were quite understanding and one of them offered the toddler a lollipop, which she rejected. Then the walkie-talkie woman returned to the Kuleszas’ aisle and displayed the raw tact and diplomacy of Donald Trump.

“Sir, you need to get off the plane,” she announced.

“What?” a stunned Mr. Kulesza asked. “Are you serious?”

“Sir, you need to get off the plane now.”

They got off the plane, while their luggage and car seat flew on to Boston. In the terminal they were directed to an AirTran supervisor, who told the couple that the stewardess was uncomfortable “because you have an unruly child who struck a woman on board.”

Mr. Kulesza was incredulous. “That was her mother,” he explained. “She hit her on the arm. Lady, this is a 3-year-old child we’re talking about.”

“Sir, we don’t differentiate between 3 and 33,” the AirTran supervisor replied. Mr. Kulesza said the woman proceeded to lecture him about child discipline, and how she would never tolerate her children behaving in such a manner, at which point Mr. Kulesza said, “You really need to stop talking now.”

The couple were also told that, since they had been ejected from the plane, they were banned from flying with AirTran for 24 hours. So they were forced to return to Bonita Springs for the night, and Mr. Kulesza missed a 16-hour work shift, and the next day they returned to the airport and can surely be forgiven if they fed their daughter enough Children’s Benadryl to fell a stallion. I exaggerate, perhaps, but it’s certainly what I would have done. In any case, Elly slept through the return flight home.

The incident has sparked varied responses from those who heard the story. While many people — mostly parents — sympathize with the Kuleszas, others are less inclined. For example, when I related the tale to an unnamed colleague and asked if he had ever heard of an airline bouncing a child from a flight he said, “No, but I’m all for it. Couldn’t they have checked her with the baggage?”

This colleague, as it happens, has no kids.

AirTran, meanwhile, has apparently had a change of heart. After the airline received a phone call Thursday from yours truly, an AirTran customer service rep called the Kuleszas, apologized profusely for the incident and refunded them the $595 cost of their tickets.

“We do believe the situation could have been handled differently,” said AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver. “We will use this case as a means to train our agents on dealing with this type of situation on our flights … While there are FAA regulations that mandate all passengers have to be securely fastened in their seat belts before a plane can depart, we need to work with our customers in situations like this to help them — and that is what we will focus on.”

Ms. Kulesza is appreciative of the response, but believes she could have calmed her daughter down, if given the chance.

“It wasn’t like she had a bomb strapped to her waist,” she noted.

AirTran also extended another offer to the Kuleszas — free airline tickets to the destination of their choosing. The offer has been declined.

“I said I appreciated it, but I told them not to bother,” Ms. Kulesza said. “We won’t ever be flying with that airline again.”
 
I came across that article on the net, too. IMHO, the author of the article is either personally biased in favor of the family, or an outright moron.

"So on Jan. 11, the family flew from Logan Airport to Fort Meyers on AirTran Airways, and even though it was Elly’s first plane trip she behaved like a dream and spent most of the flight coloring in her coloring book and watching movies on a portable DVD player.

“She was great,” her mom remembered. “When we made our descent into Florida we could see the water and she shouted, ‘Look, mommy, there’s the beach where we go swimming,’ and everyone laughed.”

Okay, the flight down was perfect - Elly was a dream.

Then came … The Boarding. Suddenly and without warning, angelic little Elly morphed into every parents’ nightmare.

Her mom thinks it may have been because of the ear surgery Elly underwent earlier this month, and perhaps her memory of the discomfort and ear pressure she endured during the plane’s descent into Florida. For whatever reason, when they got on the plane, Elly started to cry and wouldn’t stop. Nor would she sit down — she plopped herself down on the floor in front of her seat and proceeded to throw a temper tantrum.

Okay, leaving aside for a moment the implausibility of a little angel suddenly "morphing" into a "nightmare" (sometimes kids do this, but rarely without build-up or warning signs), how does the author get away with describing the inbound flight as a "dream" in one paragraph, then pul out this baloney about "ear pain on the flight down?" What ear pain? Didn't you just say two paragraphs ago that Elly was smiling and laughing and having a good old time on the descent?

The incident has sparked varied responses from those who heard the story. While many people — mostly parents — sympathize with the Kuleszas, others are less inclined. For example, when I related the tale to an unnamed colleague and asked if he had ever heard of an airline bouncing a child from a flight he said, “No, but I’m all for it. Couldn’t they have checked her with the baggage?”

This colleague, as it happens, has no kids.

The implication here is that people with kids are all behind the family, while only cruel-hearted childless fiends would side with AirTran.

I laugh condescendingly whenever someone implies that I can't speak authoritatively on the subject of children just because I have none of my own, because I come from a big family, and in my life I have spent more time caring for children than a lot of parents. Believe me, I know what the heck I'm talking about when the subject of kids comes up, and I'm unsulted by those who assume I don't just because I don't check off a dependant box on my tax return.

As I said, the reporter is either biased, or just dumb.
 

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