We are losing the Magic

[ScubaCat]

At least now, those that wanted to ride it could pay if it meant a lot to them to do it.

Again, I know it added money and people have to decide whether it would be worth it, but had paid been an option in July for ROTR…which we could not get, I would have gladly paid since My friend had really hoped to try it as she is a huge Star Wars fan and won’t be back for a few years.

What would be even better is if attractions were designed to provide all guests who buy a ticket a chance to ride it. Building "the most ambitious attraction ever" that can only service some of the paying guests every day is pretty ridiculous.

Nevertheless, it is what it is.

 

[hsc3boys]

DVC members from U.K., like most people from Europe we stay for at least 14 nights due to the cost and length of the flights.
Firstly ME was wonderful, when we arrive it’s actually very late for us, the convenience of walking past everyone waiting to get hire cars, being welcomed at ME, the amount of luggage we have (either 4 or 6 People in our family with luggage for 14 nights) all fitting on the coach easily, just being able to relax and not think was one of the best magical parts and what I would recommend to other families as to why they should stay on site.
Fast Past, again was a reason why I would tell people to stay on site to access this earlier and why in our opinion it made Disney so much better than any other theme park. We would get our three passes, plan eating around them along with shows and other activities, park hop or go back to the resort and then venture out again in the evening for extra magical hours. All very civilised and as I said it’s what made Disney unique and better than the rest, giving you the extra magic.
We cannot afford to pay for this new system, too many of us and for our length of stay. This is a huge negative for us and makes me question if we will go back at all. Everything we loved has gone, just feel like a cash cow.
whoever thought this up is lacking Any Disney magic and just thinking $, of which I don’t think Disney is short of.
All very very sad if you ask me.
The way I feel is Shame on You Disney.

 

[frtchr]

MySo what else has changed that you wish had not?

None of the changes bother me.

 

[Bearval]

https://www.wdwinfo.com/news-stories/disney-offers-to-raise-cast-members-pay-to-15-per-hour-by-2021/

That is 3 year old news and Disney wants the employees to give back certain things in the contract for them to get it.

 

[Bearval]

Disney in a much publicized agreement in 2018, agreed to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour by Oct of this year.

They agreed in principle only if the union did some gives backs.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I think Stacy deserves a window on Main Street USA

Please tell me you’re kidding… right up there with the imagineers that made the HM & PotC come to life…???
No wonder the standards at WDW are falling.

Disclaimer: I don’t know that those imagineers have a window. It was just a comparison.

 

[bobbiwoz]

There should be skycaps there to help you cart it down to the shuttle. Just tip them 10 bucks or whatever to cart it down for you. (Disclaimer: I haven't looked for them recently but they're usually around with the big carts.)

If you decide to rent a car (which are much cheaper now finally), send one person (or 2, whatever is easiest) to get the vehicle and just drive up to level 2 where the curbside arrivals pickup is and everyone else can just grab the bags and walk right out the door. Does anyone know if rental cars are open on terminal B again? The last time I flew in a few months ago it was still terminal A only, so if you pick up luggage on terminal B, it'd be quite a haul. Hence, send someone to get the car and bring it around.

Thank you, so skycaps are not the same as the ones who push wheelchairs.
In August we flew American and rented from Avis. Not sure what terminals we were in, but that was not a haul. DH and I were there for a few nights.

 

[DVCPAT]

Disney can limit # of people entering the parks to a less stifling number. They pack 'em in to get as much $ as possible. Yes, it's a business, but for me, it's no longer fun. It's frustrating, fighting the crowds, waiting on absurdly long lines. So, they're losing a long time customer (been going yearly since it opened). But for every customer lost, they'll gain 2 more. The almighty buck drives it all. I never in a million years thought I'd give up on my happy place...but here we are.

I don’t think Disney will gain 2 guests for every loyal customer lost. We brought non Disney quests twice to WDW in the last year and they were not impressed with the value. .,,,No interest in returning.
Loyal Disney customers are realizing we have a dose of Stockholm syndrome. I recently converted old Disney vacation vhs tapes to digital and today’s Disney is arrogant and greedy. We’ll keep our DVC contracts and use it as a home base for Orlando attractions.

 

[Bearval]

None of the changes bother me.

I guess we all should be grateful pay toilets are not legal in Florida or else Chapek would be trying to sell all of us a fastpass for them. Who knows, he may already be trying to overturn that law.

 

[Bruggok]

So the $100+++ a day to enter a park is not enough for them, now you need to add $15 a day + $5 a ride... Have they not heard of Karma?

Wait until you see new sponsorships by Off!, Ziploc, etc. the idea was that sponsorship defrays costs so it’s cheaper for visitors. DL had sponsorships in the beginning but tickets were relatively cheap. WDW instead double dips - make money from sponsorship and charge guests up the wa op. Smart.

 

[zavandor]

Well, not quite everyone.

FoP capacity is estimated between 1200-1500, so let's use the upper number. An average AK operating day in 2019 was 9-8 or 9-9, so let's say 11.5 hours of operation per day. So, if nothing goes wrong (no mechanical downtime, no Code V cleanups, etc.) about 14,250 guests per day can ride FoP. 80% of that is 11,400.

AK's estimated attendance in 2019 was just a shade under 13.9M people, or about 38,000 per day. So, about 30% of the people who walked through the gates could skip the line, while less than 40% of those people could ride it at all. And that's assuming no one rides it twice.

Or six times.

I guess they all had a chance, but not all of those chances will come up sevens.

Right, I didn't say everyone skipped the line, but that everyone has the same chance to do it. It required a bit of planning, patience or luck.
Now it requires money. With the aggravating issue that the more people buy it, the longer the standby line grows, the more people will want to buy it. But also, longer the line, higher the price. The worst is the situation is, the bigger the profit for Disney.
I leave it to you if it'll better or worst than FP+, people may have different opinion about it.

 

[FastPasser.]

They agreed in principle only if the union did some gives backs.

Will the minimum wage be $15 an hour at WDW by Oct?

 

[Sandisw]

Right, I didn't say everyone skipped the line, but that everyone has the same chance to do it. It required a bit of planning, patience or luck.
Now it requires money. With the aggravating issue that the more people buy it, the longer the standby line grows, the more people will want to buy it. But also, longer the line, higher the price. The worst is the situation is, the bigger the profit for Disney.
I leave it to you if it'll better or worst than FP+, people may have different opinion about it.

Help me to understand how having a paid version impacts the stand by any differently than the free version did.

I understand people don’t like they have to pay or can only hold one, but not how this system is going to impact things adversely in terms of waits.

I mean, if more people buy, are you not just getting back to what it was when it was free and everyone used it?

 

[Tammy A]

I returned from Disney about 3 weeks ago. This was a completely different type of trip. Since 2000, my family has gone to Disney and stayed on site for 6-9 night stays a total of 12 times, We have enjoyed Poly, Beach, Wilderness Lodge, Port Orleans Riverside, Coronado, Animation Family suites and even the All star resorts. For the first time, this year, we stayed in a 4 bedroom, 3 bath house with a private pool in a resort 3 miles away from Animal Kingdom. We decided for what we were getting at a Disney resort, taking into consideration the "perks' that came with it, was no longer the same value it had been. I wasn't sure what to expect. We stayed for 10 nights and only did 5 days at Disney and one day was only 3 hours because it was so crowded. We absolutely loved it! This was a more laid back type of trip. We all slept better than we ever have on a trip, got along better, and actually enjoyed being together more. We had some special dinners out at Sanaa, Ohana and Olivias. But we also really enjoyed Olive Garden. We had such a blast and are making plans to do it again. Next time we are planning a few days at the beach and then doing a couple days at Universal and we probably won't go to Disney at all. I think what we have discovered is that we just have to vacation differently and we will still have a wonderful time but for us, Disney has just gotten very expensive and we're not getting the same value we once were. I think the Disney magic is still there; we did have a great time together at Disney but the value of staying on site is not there anymore. You are paying more but getting less. I think the magic is really in the fun and special memories we create together and we did that even by hangin out in the pool and having dinner on our patio together. Such a blast! I encourage others if they are struggling with the question of value, try staying off site.

 

[zavandor]

Help me to understand how having a paid version impacts the stand by any differently than the free version did.

I understand people don’t like they have to pay or can only hold one, but not how this system is going to impact things adversely in terms of waits.

I mean, if more people buy, are you not just getting back to what it was when it was free and everyone used it?

Sorry, I didn't explain well what I mean.
First of all, I do not like that people have to pay for a service that was free. I prefer a system that gives everyone the same chances, not one that allows people with more money a better experience. Attraction capacity is constant and not everyone can ride it. Now people with more money can ride it, others will compete for the remaining places.

Second, with the old system Disney had all the interest to make the system work in the most efficient way. For example, for years they have opened Pandora 45-60 minutes before official park opening in order to increase daily throughput of the highest demand attraction. Now this is against their interests for two reasons: they can save money on CM salary (this hasn't changed) and increasing the standby line they can earn more money thanks to Jafar LL. Will they open just 30 minutes before for resorts guests extra time or 60 minutes before like 2+ years ago? We'll see.

 

[Sandisw]

Sorry, I didn't explain well what I said.
First of all, I do not like that people have to pay for a service that was free. I prefer a system that gives everyone the same chances, not one that allows people with more money a better experience. Attraction capacity is constant and not everyone can ride it. Now people with more money can ride it, others will compete for the remaining places.

Second, with the old system Disney had all the interest to make the system work in the most efficient way. For example, for years they have opened Pandora 45-60 minutes before official park opening in order to increase daily throughput of the highest demand attraction. Now this is against their interests for two reasons: they can save money on CM salary and increasing the standby line they can earn more money thanks to Jafar LL. Will they open just 30 minutes before for resorts guests extra time or 60 minutes before like 2+ years ago? We'll see.

That helps me understand your points better.

I am personally not bothered by the change because ultimately it is still our choice to go, to pay or not and then adjust the budget as such if the group can’t afford it as an extra expense.

Again, we have enjoyed the changes since the pandemic of not having to plan everything in advance and honestly made FPs at times that were never used just in case including for those Tier 1 rides..when we could get them which was not often.

It will be interesting to see how it shakes out when it begins.

 

[zavandor]

That helps me understand your points better.

I am personally not bothered by the change because ultimately it is still our choice to go, to pay or not and then adjust the budget as such if the group can’t afford it as an extra expense.

Again, we have enjoyed the changes since the pandemic of not having to plan everything in advance and honestly made FPs at times that were never used just in case including for those Tier 1 rides..when we could get them which was not often.

It will be interesting to see how it shakes out when it begins.

I want to add that like you I am also waiting to see how things shake out. In DLP very few Premier Access passes are sold (how LL are called in Paris). Rumors say a total of 500-700 passes sold per day across all attractions in two parks, they must consider it a complete failure.
Also, I don't think this will be the reason I won't go to WDW anymore, whatever system Disney can throw at me, I'll know all tricks to work around it.
And I might even buy it, but I still think it's a disgusting move.

 

[BikeFan]

What would be even better is if attractions were designed to provide all guests who buy a ticket a chance to ride it. Building "the most ambitious attraction ever" that can only service some of the paying guests every day is pretty ridiculous.

This is a great point which gets overlooked in these sorts of discussions. To use a baseball analogy, in their ride design lately, it seems like Disney only wants to hit home runs, and has no interest in hitting singles or doubles. Don't get me wrong - rides like FOP and RotR are epic rides, the sorts of rides worth traveling from across the US or the world. That being said, both Star Wars and Pandora lands added all of two attractions and no shows or anything else to really soak up the crowds. I remember the first time I entered Pandora at AK, in January 2018. Granted, it was a few days after New Year's, so it was still crowded, but FOP was 5 hours(!) and Navi was 3 hours(!) (middle of the afternoon). If you entered those lines, that was pretty much going to be almost your whole day. Maybe Disney needs to look at constructing a few more attractions which may not be tent-pole type rides (and thus less expensive to build), but still give guests something to do so they can say they got something for their ticket price?

 

[Dariansue]

• #79

We should address the disappointment we feel regarding Genie+ on any and all media they come up with. If they put out a video or anything advertising new things like rides or experiences, we disregard it and in the comments tell them how we really feel about all the different ways they are price gauging us. In other words, why would I care about Boo Bash if Disney is so blatantly showing their true colors. This time there is no sugar coating for this die hard fan. I’m not interested in participating in anything they have to offer until they address their blunder and will cancel my upcoming September 2021 trip and they can forget about their 50th celebration. It’s heartbreaking but necessary.

 

[bumbershoot]

Doesn't that hurt too though? Remembering how many relaxing benches the parks used to have?

(Oh, I just saw that you're a newB and didn't really start going till 2010...so you never got attached to the benches.)

No worries; I had grown very accustomed to benches at Disneyland well before heading to WDW.

They fired all their employees to be able to pull all that stuff off at the same time.

Like in 2020? When firing people was good because then they could claim unemployment, rather than continuing to drain the budget of the Parks?

They see what Universal can get away with and keep downsizing everything to match the poor quality Universal has.

I...don't know what you're talking about. Universal has AMAZING service.

Honestly if universal could make just a few more things for toddlers to do, if have no reason to ever go to Disney again.

True. Though for me I need a timeshare with the perks of the deluxe hotels, and a RunUniversal branch, and THEN I don't have to go to WDW anymore.

No schlepping luggage at the airport.

Find a porter. Tip them. They get bags from the carousels, transport them to cab/rideshare/towncar/and I think even rental cars... Then request help once at Disney.