What will Disney's next set of restrictions be?

[Sandisw]

Do you think the moonlight magic will continue? I am sure it will be awhile if it does? On the DVC unplugged says these perks can come & go anytime just as they took it away from resale. Maybe prices will be lowered due to the circumstances at this time. I think a lot of these perks are unusable at this time, in my opinion.

I don’t expect any of the 2020 ones. But, last year, they were not announced until around November, and by then, they will know a lot more in terms of where they are in getting back to normal,

Yes, they can eliminate any perks, but I would expect some nice incentives for purchase.

Of course, given how unprecedented this whole thing is, we have no idea what types of sales they will set as goals, and could decide to ride it out and not worry.

 

[lovethesun12]

Is it possible they could put restrictions on renting/transferring points; as in when booking a reservation the person with their name on the deed must be present?

Disclaimer: I'm just curious, and have no knowledge of whether or not they could do this. I just thought of it because it happened with a voucher program I'm enrolled in.

 

[CarolMN]

Is it possible they could put restrictions on renting/transferring points; as in when booking a reservation the person with their name on the deed must be present?

Disclaimer: I'm just curious, and have no knowledge of whether or not they could do this. I just thought of it because it happened with a voucher program I'm enrolled in.

Yes, they could. However, I doubt they will do anything like that. IMO, they will just stop transfers altogether before they start adding restrictions that will cause them grief to enforce, especially when there is little or no benefit to the system to add those type of restrictions.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Yes, they could. However, I doubt they will do anything like that. IMO, they will just stop transfers altogether before they start adding restrictions that will cause them grief to enforce, especially when there is little or no benefit to the system to add those type of restrictions.

i don’t think they can put restrictions on renting as that is part of the POS. On the other hand if they could, how would they in force it? I mean if I send someone else on my behalf there is no way they are able to tell if I have rented or just gifted the points to family.

 

[CarolMN]

i don’t think they can put restrictions on renting as that is part of the POS. On the other hand if they could, how would they in force it? I mean if I send someone else on my behalf there is no way they are able to tell if I have rented or just gifted the points to family.

Agree with you 100% wrt renting. I was only thinking of ability to transfer points to other members and just skipped right over the references to "renting" (which is probably the main thing @lovethesun12 was asking about) . Off to get another cup of coffee!

 

[Jack_Sparrow_NJ]

I think they are going to have enough issues selling direct and would be surprised if any new restrictions were introduced.

 

[lovethesun12]

i don’t think they can put restrictions on renting as that is part of the POS. On the other hand if they could, how would they in force it? I mean if I send someone else on my behalf there is no way they are able to tell if I have rented or just gifted the points to family.

It's good to hear it's part of the POS, I wasn't aware. Again I've never seen an agreement so these are just random thoughts and questions not what I think could or would happen. Just curious to hear perspectives! I'm looking at purchasing, so every scenario has been running through my head, and I'm just interested to hear what people with knowledge of the agreement have to say =)

Obviously this is way, way, different. But I am in a flight program where we get annual vouchers for travel. We use to be able to gift the vouchers to anyone, but now we can only do that if the holder of the account is travelling as well.

So what I randomly thought, was is it possible they could bring in a resale policy where the main account holder would have to be on the reservation (or someone linked to their MDE).

 

[Sandisw]

i don’t think they can put restrictions on renting as that is part of the POS. On the other hand if they could, how would they in force it? I mean if I send someone else on my behalf there is no way they are able to tell if I have rented or just gifted the points to family.

They have a policy that if they see a certain number of reservations in a rolling 12 month period that are in guests names that don’t include the owner, they can flag it as commercial renting...I have heard the trigger is 20.

The issue for an owner would be that it’s up to DVC to decide what it means and if they suspend or something, not sure what an owner can do.

 

[Sandisw]

It's good to hear it's part of the POS, I wasn't aware. Again I've never seen an agreement so these are just random thoughts and questions not what I think could or would happen. Just curious to hear perspectives! I'm looking at purchasing, so every scenario has been running through my head, and I'm just interested to hear what people with knowledge of the agreement have to say =)

Obviously this is way, way, different. But I am in a flight program where we get annual vouchers for travel. We use to be able to gift the vouchers to anyone, but now we can only do that if the holder of the account is travelling as well.

So what I randomly thought, was is it possible they could bring in a resale policy where the main account holder would have to be on the reservation (or someone linked to their MDE).

They can not change the terms of the POS. They could certainly add something different for Reflections but not for current

I can say the language regarding rental is stronger in my RIV POS than it was in my VGF or BLT years ago.

However, resales restrictions currently in place have to do with perks or trades which are different.

That is why I believe moving forward they will increase perks rahter than take away. But I also believe the resale restrictions of RIV is the way for all new resorts.

 

[fumanchu2488]

I have been looking into this a lot because I bought my first contract direct last year at Riviera and heard lots of people that were adamant about not buying direct.

Someone mentioned it but you could argue that it would be better for them to drive resale prices as low as possible so they can execute ROFR at a lower price. The biggest thing there is that they need demand to sell direct since they want to have people paying the MF.

The POS has nothing that prevents them from greatly reducing or completely eliminating incentives, regardless of direct or resale.
Another question I have been asking myself is could they take incentives away from those who have bought resale regardless of year? Like if you have resale you bought in 2005 you do not get AP discount.

 

[Cyberc1978]

They have a policy that if they see a certain number of reservations in a rolling 12 month period that are in guests names that don’t include the owner, they can flag it as commercial renting...I have heard the trigger is 20.

The issue for an owner would be that it’s up to DVC to decide what it means and if they suspend or something, not sure what an owner can do.

I think 20 reservation per year per membership should be enough for most.

The POS reads:

DVC Members may make as many reservations as they desire. However, if, in any 12-month period, a DVC Member desires to make more than 20 reservations, the DVC Member shall be required to establish, to the satisfaction of the Board, that all of the reservations made by the DVC Member in such 12-month period are for the use of accommodations by the DVC Member, the DVC Member’s family and/or the DVC Member’s friends (collectively, “Personal Use”), and not for commercial purposes. If, in any 12-month period in which a DVC Member attempts to make more than 20 reservations but is unable to establish, to the satisfaction of the Board, that all such reservations are for Personal Use and not for commercial purposes, all reservations in excess of the first 20 reservations shall be presumed to be the use of Vacation Accommodations for commercial purposes in violation of the Declaration and the Membership Agreement (the “Multiple Reservation Rule”).

Enforcement of this policy will be the responsibility of DVC Member Services as follows. For each reservation made by a DVC Member, Member Services shall determine, before confirming the reservation, the number of reservations made by such DVC Member which are occurring or have occurred in any rolling twelve-month period in which the reservation then being made will occur. If, as a result of Member Services’ review of the DVC Member’s reservation history, the reservation the DVC Member is then attempting to make violates the Multiple Reservation Rule and the DVC Member has not established, or cannot then establish that all of the DVC Member’s reservations, including the reservation then being made by the DVC Member, are for Personal Use, DVC Member Services will not honor or confirm the reservation and the DVC Member shall be advised that the reservation violates the Multiple Reservation Rule and the prohibition on use of Vacation Homes for commercial purposes. For reservations canceled for violating this policy, the cancellation shall be deemed to be a cancellation by the DVC Member and the provisions of the Home Resort Rules and Regulations relating to cancellations (including, without limitation, Sections 5(d), 13 and 14) shall apply.

The Association shall have the sole discretion to interpret this policy. Further, pursuant to the DVC Property Management Agreement and the DVC Membership Agreement for the Resort, the Association delegates the authority to interpret and enforce (through the Home Resort Reservation Component and the Home Resort Rules and Regulations) the policy to DVCMC as property manager for the resort.

This policy is not intended, and shall not be deemed, either (i) to constitute an exclusive act or statement by the Association regarding any breach of the commercial activity prohibitions set forth in the Declaration of Condominium and Membership Agreement, or (ii) to be an exhaustive list of all activities that shall be deemed to be commercial activity. Accordingly, the Association reserves the right to promulgate such additional rules or to take such additional actions or measures as it deems appropriate with respect to any breach of such prohibitions.

 

[Cyberc1978]

I have been looking into this a lot because I bought my first contract direct last year at Riviera and heard lots of people that were adamant about not buying direct.

Someone mentioned it but you could argue that it would be better for them to drive resale prices as low as possible so they can execute ROFR at a lower price. The biggest thing there is that they need demand to sell direct since they want to have people paying the MF.

The POS has nothing that prevents them from greatly reducing or completely eliminating incentives, regardless of direct or resale.
Another question I have been asking myself is could they take incentives away from those who have bought resale regardless of year? Like if you have resale you bought in 2005 you do not get AP discount.

I think if they could they would have.

 

[Sandisw]

I have been looking into this a lot because I bought my first contract direct last year at Riviera and heard lots of people that were adamant about not buying direct.

Someone mentioned it but you could argue that it would be better for them to drive resale prices as low as possible so they can execute ROFR at a lower price. The biggest thing there is that they need demand to sell direct since they want to have people paying the MF.

The POS has nothing that prevents them from greatly reducing or completely eliminating incentives, regardless of direct or resale.
Another question I have been asking myself is could they take incentives away from those who have bought resale regardless of year? Like if you have resale you bought in 2005 you do not get AP discount.

Yes, they do not have to grandfather anyone and could decide at some point to include all.

However, the perks for things like APs went away years ago, so at this point, I don’t see them deciding to do it. Much easier to add more incentives to get people to buy or add points direct to get them.

 

[fumanchu2488]

Yes, they do not have to grandfather anyone and could decide at some point to include all.

However, the perks for things like APs went away years ago, so at this point, I don’t see them deciding to do it. Much easier to add more incentives to get people to buy or add points direct to get them.

My thinking for retroactively removing incentives is to have those members who value those incentives buy direct and further separate these 'classes' they have created. The pattern of changes they have been making seem to set it up for that.

1. Add resale restrictions to DRR so that resale buyers can no longer stay at new resorts. Drive resale price lower.
2. Increase the minimum direct purchase for blue card holders to 100 points.
3. Remove incentives for all non direct purchases historically. Drive resale prices even lower by potentially flooding market.
4. Purchase through lower ROFR and resell direct (or offer some kind of transfer fee equal to the difference of ROFR and direct sale).

The issue they have run into is that the demand for DRR seems to be much lower than they anticipated. For all this to work they need to have a high demand. This COVID situation may be hurting this strategy significantly.

 

[Bearval]

My thinking for retroactively removing incentives is to have those members who value those incentives buy direct and further separate these 'classes' they have created. The pattern of changes they have been making seem to set it up for that.

1. Add resale restrictions to DRR so that resale buyers can no longer stay at new resorts. Drive resale price lower.
2. Increase the minimum direct purchase for blue card holders to 100 points.
3. Remove incentives for all non direct purchases historically. Drive resale prices even lower by potentially flooding market.
4. Purchase through lower ROFR and resell direct (or offer some kind of transfer fee equal to the difference of ROFR and direct sale).

The issue they have run into is that the demand for DRR seems to be much lower than they anticipated. For all this to work they need to have a high demand. This COVID situation may be hurting this strategy significantly.

They will add short term incentives to drive direct sales, what the will not do is remove the recent restrictions they have put in place.

 

[SL6827]

They will add short term incentives to drive direct sales, what the will not do is remove the recent restrictions they have put in place.

What the inability to book DVC-2 rooms or all the restrictions?

 

[Kickstart]

I've been playing around with the idea of buying into DVC (well, I've been thinking about it since 2006 - wish I pulled the trigger back then), and thinking the recent resale pricing pressure may be a good time to finally pull the trigger.

I'm concerned about the following statement on Disney's website:
"Effective January 19, 2019, Disney Vacation Club Members who do not acquire their real estate interest directly from the developer will not be able to make Vacation Point reservations at some or all non-Home Resorts. " - specifically, the "... or all non-Home Resorts" part.

I've seen in multiple posts and blogs it being stated that resales are good at all 14 original DVC resorts. Will that always be the case? Why would Disney state it may apply to all non-home resorts?

 

[Lorana]

I've been playing around with the idea of buying into DVC (well, I've been thinking about it since 2006 - wish I pulled the trigger back then), and thinking the recent resale pricing pressure may be a good time to finally pull the trigger.

I'm concerned about the following statement on Disney's website:
"Effective January 19, 2019, Disney Vacation Club Members who do not acquire their real estate interest directly from the developer will not be able to make Vacation Point reservations at some or all non-Home Resorts. " - specifically, the "... or all non-Home Resorts" part.

I've seen in multiple posts and blogs it being stated that resales are good at all 14 original DVC resorts. Will that always be the case? Why would Disney state it may apply to all non-home resorts?

Because if you were to purchase a Riviera resale, you can ONLY use it at your home resort (Riviera), so it falls under the "all" non-Home Resorts (as will any new future DVC resort on the resale market in theory). The original 14 resorts can be used at any of the 14 resorts, but not Riviera, so the "some" applies to them.

 

[Wakey]

It's in the contract. Home resorts owner only need to legally be given a one month home advantage, so they could easily give direct.and resale different home advantages.

someone asked if it would be retroactive, I would not expect ANY change they made to.effect.existing resale owners. That's one thing they've been very consistent about.

I don’t agree they could discriminate between direct and resale on booking windows. The club is run for the benefit of members- which are not distinguished insofar as club members are concerned. It would be detrimental to all members as it would immediately devalue direct buyers’ points. Think they’d be sued if they tried this one- but they wouldn’t as they know they’d lose. They could probably do it on new properties with new rules though.

 

[Kickstart]

Because if you were to purchase a Riviera resale, you can ONLY use it at your home resort (Riviera), so it falls under the "all" non-Home Resorts (as will any new future DVC resort on the resale market in theory). The original 14 resorts can be used at any of the 14 resorts, but not Riviera, so the "some" applies to them.

ah... thanks. So that verbiage is referring just to Riviera.

This is only Riviera then, other direct purchases (like CCV, Aulani, or sold out resorts) wouldn't have this limitation, correct?

Thanks!