What will Disney's next set of restrictions be?

ah... thanks. So that verbiage is referring just to Riviera.

This is only Riviera then, other direct purchases (like CCV, Aulani, or sold out resorts) wouldn't have this limitation, correct?

Thanks!
Direct purchases can be used at any of the DVC resorts.
The original 14 resorts, if sold on the resale market, will not have that restriction, but they will be restricted from booking Riviera and any resort that comes after it... unless the rules change again, at which point the resale restrictions will be whatever they are at the time of sale.
 
So I just bought resale and I have not received a membership card yet and the only thing I have is a 3 month card I can show on my phone. Should i expect something in the mail or do I need to call membership and request this?
 
So I just bought resale and I have not received a membership card yet and the only thing I have is a 3 month card I can show on my phone. Should i expect something in the mail or do I need to call membership and request this?

That is the "white card" you hear people speak of. It only comes in a digital variant, although you can print it to take a hard copy on a trip.
 
They can not change the terms of the POS.

Actually they can, they have the power to change most of the POS, for some things they need a vote but they control all the votes. However it's the DVC Management Company that would do that, so they would have to act only for the benefit of the majority of the membership (which doesn't mean everyone would benefit).
 


Actually they can, they have the power to change most of the POS, for some things they need a vote but they control all the votes. However it's the DVC Management Company that would do that, so they would have to act only for the benefit of the majority of the membership (which doesn't mean everyone would benefit).

Doesn’t the timeshare laws require any material changes had to have a vote of owner?

Why would it be DVCMC vs DVD when our contracts are with DVD?
 
Disney could lower their minimum point requirement for a blue card back to 75 points temporarily. That would probably incentivize some people who bought resale without having to come up with a scheme to allow resale members to convert their existing points to direct points.
 
Disney could lower their minimum point requirement for a blue card back to 75 points temporarily. That would probably incentivize some people who bought resale without having to come up with a scheme to allow resale members to convert their existing points to direct points.
I would love that!!! That would convince me to buy direct for sure!
 


I think what DVC/Disney will learn from resale restrictions is that it achieves the opposite outcome of what they are trying to accomplish. Less people will buy direct if they know their ability to resell the contract in the future is hampered.
Personally, I would make the following changes to the system:
1) Encourage DVC’ers to stay at their home resort by offering incentives to do so. Some ideas: additional FPs, discounts on dining, complimentary Minnie Van transports, etc.
2) Change the banking/borrowing system to once again encourage home resort stays. If you stay at your home resort you can use 100% of banked and borrowed points. However, if you stay elsewhere you can use 50% of that allotment.
3) Begin to offer extension contracts to the 2042s. Obviously Disney has burned through an incredible amount of cash lately and one way they can infuse some cash is go back to the existing holders and offer 15-20 extensions on their 2042 contracts.
 
1) Encourage DVC’ers to stay at their home resort by offering incentives to do so. Some ideas: additional FPs, discounts on dining, complimentary Minnie Van transports, etc.

Home resort stay perks - I like the way you think. Especially FP don't cost them anything. Probably some other non-cost perks they could offer to drive people more often to their home resort.
 
Home resort stay perks - I like the way you think. Especially FP don't cost them anything. Probably some other non-cost perks they could offer to drive people more often to their home resort.
I’m a big believer in that if you incentivize the right activities you will get better results versus disincentivizing the wrong activities.
 
I think what DVC/Disney will learn from resale restrictions is that it achieves the opposite outcome of what they are trying to accomplish. Less people will buy direct if they know their ability to resell the contract in the future is hampered.

Doubtful. The entire timeshare industry thrives on uneducated buyers. Salespeople convince prospects to sit thru a presentation and use every weapon in their arsenal to secure an impulse buy. The ability to say "you can only use your points for all the resorts if you buy direct from me" is just one more bit of ammo. In the moment, there's very little chance prospects will see the drawbacks.

Every day, people buy (non-Disney) timeshares which immediately lose 80-90% of their value. A DVC resort will still do much better than that.

A message board which caters to informed DVC owners isn't the best way to gauge the buying process of average Joe. Admittedly, DVC stands to lose some add-on sales from educated owners who are aware of resale and the possible impact of such restrictions. But given the way direct prices have risen, I suspect long-time members aren't adding on as they once did. The theme parks and resorts provide DVC with a constant flow of new prospects.
 
I think we assume that add ons from current members are likely suffering for Riviera. "Suffering" is based on an assumption though. It's possible Disney already took this into account and add ons are all over what they expected. Not sure.

What I'm looking forward to seeing is how brisk sales are going to be once the parks reopen. We know they rely on that walk up foot traffic but is that type of demand going to be there right now? Even if the foot traffic doesn't suffer is there enough magical fairy pixie dust whatever in the air to get through those masks and convince people to buy into the product right now? Frankly I'm not sure if being on site is really a sales pitch at the moment.
 
Doesn’t the timeshare laws require any material changes had to have a vote of owner?

Why would it be DVCMC vs DVD when our contracts are with DVD?

Disclaimer: I'm going to repeat what I've understood from comments made by other people on this board that are more knowledgeable than me. I might have gotten something wrong so anyone who is more of an expert, please correct me!

DVD builds and sells the resorts, but then it's the management company that manages the resort and takes all decisions after that. This in theory, in practice DVD keeps ownership of 2% of the resort and signing the contracts we delegate our right of vote on certain matters to DVD. For example budget approval, board nominees, those are all things that DVD still controls because they control the votes. That's why at the members meeting in December there is a vote and it always passes without discussion.
In theory, the members could gather the votes of the majority of the owners of a unit to gain a vote. But succeeding in gathering enough owners to take control of enough units to make a difference (and maybe nominate a different management company) is such an herculean task that we can say it's impossible. It would also be a serious act of self harm, given that a lot of benefits (like FP+ at 60 days, EMH etc etc) are given to DVC members by Disney and could be cancelled at any time.

However the management company, even if all the bosses are in practice nominated by DVD, must still make the interests of the members because the DVCMC has a fiduciary responsibility toward the members and the law regulates quite tigthly how a fiduciary should operate. Nevertheless, there are many ways to make the interests of the members and when in doubt, DVCMC will make choices that advantage Disney as well as the members.

My understanging is that the POS has sections that can modified only by "members vote", the same type of vote that approves the budget. Changes that must be approved by an explicit vote of the members (postal vote or something like that). And sections that can be amended by DVCMC at their exclusive discretion.
I'm not an expert enough to tell you which part can be modified how, but all the sections related to booking, reallocations, exchanges and most of the other aspects of the membership can be changed by DVCMC without a members vote.

So when I repeat ad nauseam that DVCMC didn't have the rights to reallocate points across different units, it'is because the current version of the POS forbids that. The POS allow to reallocate only between different seasons leaving the total points for each unit the same. However DVCMC could change the POS at any time to allow that.
Why don't they do that? Well, first of all they might still do it. Every year we must hold our breath until the new point charts are published.
But then, we're back to the fiduciary responsibility of the management company toward the members. They could change the POS, but they can do so only for the membership gain (meaning, most members gain with the change, not that everyone will gain). Changing the POS to allow reallocation of points across units might be possible (I'm still unsure that it would be compliant with the law, though) , if the changes are then done to advantage of the membership. For example, creating a standard category at SSR was a good move on DVC part, they created a cheap and higher demand category for members while guaranteeing the best sections to members willing to pay a bit more. Moving points between bungalows and studios at Poly? Well, it would be debatable, given that the average contract is so small that very few members would be interested in bungalows anyway and the change would affect negatively everyone else. While possible, some owners could decide to sue DVCMC for such a change and who knows what a judge might decide?
However, the lockoff premium increase? I cannot see how one could argue that it's a net gain for the membership, I think that is dead and we'll never see it again.

As far as I know, the only change that has ever been done to the old resorts POS is the one allowing the change of UY to points belonging to the same unit. It was neutral for current owners, maybe a small gain for someone looking to add on direct or looking to sell because increases ROFR allow the resale prices to grow. And a big gain for DVD. That's an example of a change that DVC was able to do without a members vote.
 
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Disclaimer: I'm going to repeat what I've understood from comments made by other people on this board that are more knowledgeable than me. I might have gotten something wrong so anyone who is more of an expert, please correct me!

DVD builds and sells the resorts, but then it's the management company that manages the resort and takes all decisions after that. This in theory, in practice DVD keeps ownership of 2% of the resort and signing the contracts we delegate our right of vote on certain matters to DVD. For example budget approval, board nominees, those are all things that DVD still controls because they control the votes. That's why at the members meeting in December there is a vote and it always passes without discussion.
In theory, the members could gather the votes of the majority of the owners of a unit to gain a vote. But succeeding in gathering enough owners to take control of enough units to make a difference (and maybe nominate a different management company) is such an herculean task that we can say it's impossible. It would also be a serious act of self harm, given that a lot of benefits (like FP+ at 60 days, EMH etc etc) are given to DVC members by Disney and could be cancelled at any time.

However the management company, even if all the bosses are in practice nominated by DVD, must still make the interests of the members because the DVCMC has a fiduciary responsibility toward the members and the law regulates quite tigthly how a fiduciary should operate. Nevertheless, there are many ways to make the interests of the members and when in doubt, DVCMC will make choices that advantage Disney as well as the members.

My understanging is that the POS has sections that can modified only by "members vote", the same type of vote that approves the budget. Changes that must be approved by an explicit vote of the members (postal vote or something like that). And sections that can be amended by DVCMC at their exclusive discretion.
I'm not an expert enough to tell you which part can be modified how, but all the sections related to booking, reallocations, exchanges and most of the other aspects of the membership can be changed by DVCMC without a members vote.

So when I repeat ad nauseam that DVCMC didn't have the rights to reallocate points across different units, it'is because the current version of the POS forbids that. The POS allow to reallocate only between different seasons leaving the total points for each unit the same. However DVCMC could change the POS at any time to allow that.
Why don't they do that? Well, first of all they might still do it. Every year we must hold our breath until the new point charts are published.
But then, we're back to the fiduciary responsibility of the management company toward the members. They could change the POS, but they can do so only for the membership gain (meaning, most members gain with the change, not that everyone will gain). Changing the POS to allow reallocation of points across units might be possible (I'm still unsure that it would be compliant with the law, though) , if the changes are then done to advantage of the membership. For example, creating a standard category at SSR was a good move on DVC part, they created a cheap and higher demand category for members while guaranteeing the best sections to members willing to pay a bit more. Moving points between bungalows and studios at Poly? Well, it would be debatable, given that the average contract is so small that very few members would be interested in bungalows anyway and the change would affect negatively everyone else. While possible, some owners could decide to sue DVCMC for such a change and who knows what a judge might decide?
However, the lockoff premium increase? I cannot see how one could argue that it's a net gain for the membership, I think that is dead and we'll never see it again.

As far as I know, the only change that has ever been done to the old resorts POS is the one allowing the change of UY to points belonging to the same unit. It was neutral for current owners, maybe a small gain for someone looking to add on direct or looking to sell because increases ROFR allow the resale prices to grow. And a big gain for DVD. That's an example of a change that DVC was able to do without a members vote.

Thanks...there is something I read in the POS that talks about changes and if they are material, an owners has options.

I am going to try and find it again...but this makes sense in terms of who ultimately makes the decisions, What is interesting is that my RIV POS does not mention reallocation only among seasons...so, it is possible that as resorts are built language is updated...I know the info regarding rentals is for sure from when I bought...so is the language regarding resale value.

Thanks for the insight!
 
I think what DVC/Disney will learn from resale restrictions is that it achieves the opposite outcome of what they are trying to accomplish. Less people will buy direct if they know their ability to resell the contract in the future is hampered.
The trouble is, they will think that reduced sales at Riviera are due to COVID, and not recognize the part of it that comes from their resale restrictions.
 
I also could see them adding a program that allows an owner to buy X amount of points that match the number of points they might own of restricted points and then all are eligible.

That might be enough to bring me over to the "dark side" (or am I already on the "dark side" as a resale owner?) and buy direct for an add-on.

A resale purchaser may have gotten their contract for less points, but they are still spending money on tickets, food, souvenirs, etc.

And the resale purchaser takes up the maintenance fees year after year (paying exactly what the direct purchaser pays). Isn't that better than the owner defaulting? If all contracts were ROFR'd (or re-acquired via foreclosure) and then resold by Disney at direct prices, do you think (with all of the inventory they've now created) that they'd be able to find people willing to pay direct prices for all of those units?

Disney could lower their minimum point requirement for a blue card back to 75 points temporarily. That would probably incentivize some people who bought resale without having to come up with a scheme to allow resale members to convert their existing points to direct points.

Except only those 75 points would be valid for the new resorts unless they implemented an "amnesty" program like sandisw referred to where buying an add-on direct would qualify ALL points you own, regardless of whether they were purchased resale or direct.
 
What is interesting is that my RIV POS does not mention reallocation only among seasons...so, it is possible that as resorts are built language is updated...I know the info regarding rentals is for sure from when I bought...so is the language regarding resale value.
Significant differences between RIV POS and earlier resort POSs make me think again that DVD and DVCMC are placing themselves in a position to create a DVC 2 and simply have to postpone announcing it until the Disneyland DVC is ready to sell.
 
What I'm wondering, is what will happen after 2042, even for the non-2042 expiration resorts.

I'm guessing they would re-sell those resorts with the new restrictions. And, if I purchased resale, even if I purchased a resort with later expiration, would I be able to use my points at the 2042 resorts after 2042? Or, would I be limited to the original 14 resorts minus the 5 that expire on 2042 (so now limited to 9 resorts)?
 
What I'm wondering, is what will happen after 2042, even for the non-2042 expiration resorts.

I'm guessing they would re-sell those resorts with the new restrictions. And, if I purchased resale, even if I purchased a resort with later expiration, would I be able to use my points at the 2042 resorts after 2042? Or, would I be limited to the original 14 resorts minus the 5 that expire on 2042 (so now limited to 9 resorts)?
There are lots of threads on this issue, it does not appear practical for DVD to allow them all to end at the same time and sell that many new points, as it could take over a decade, and cash renting that many high cost rooms appears unlikely, so migrating all of them to DVC II is not likely.
 

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