WWYD re:kids weight

[Klayfish]

I'm with you on that, but at the same time, I don't see a need to keep these things in the house.

(Correction: Monorailsilver) mentions that she'll come home and find "wrappers all over the house". Meaning, she's keeping the place stocked up with junk food and the kids are helping themselves.

I compare that to how I handled my kids. Cookies weren't forbidden. I just never bought them. When the kids were little, they truly thought that the only way to get a cookie was to have the nice cashier ladies at the grocery store give you one for being good. My son, in particular, got very clever about this at about age three, and would walk up to the older ladies and say, "You're pretty!" and smile widely, anticipating a cookie reward.

I've never in my life bought a box of pop tarts. They're not forbidden either, but I'm the one who buys the groceries and they're just not on my list.

Junk food is what you get when you go out to eat, not what you eat at home. As my kids got older, they would use some of their money to purchase it for themselves, but they quickly learned that once it's eaten, it's gone and so's their money. So, they learned to budget and only treat themselves occasionally.

Also, not to sound like an over-controlling ogre or anything, but as the primary cook in this household I do maintain a certain amount of control over my kitchen and I expect other family members to ask before grabbing food. Just a simple, "I'm getting myself some carrots, is that okay?" is fine. Most of the time I'll say yes. I just need to know, in case I might have been planning to use them in tonight's casserole. I don't want to start cooking at five pm and discover I'm missing an essential ingredient because someone binged on it.

Isn't that just semantics....they're not forbidden, but since I buy the groceries, I don't buy them, so they aren't in the house. What's the difference? If you teach kids good eating habits, I personally see no reason not to have that stuff in the house. To me, all of this is just common sense. Don't go to one extreme of letting them eat junk all day every day, but not going to another extreme of forbidding it in the house (no matter how you go about that).

 

[MamaBelle4]

That's a cool chart.

I remember going to McDonald's in the 1960s and all of us getting the meal. This was our meal for our "treat" dinner. It was the size of today's child's meal at McDonald's. But adults then thought it was enough for dinner!

When we go to McDonald's, I STILL get the kids meal. The adult size are just too much for me.

 

[cabanafrau]

That's a cool chart.

I remember going to McDonald's in the 1960s and all of us getting the meal. This was our meal for our "treat" dinner. It was the size of today's child's meal at McDonald's. But adults then thought it was enough for dinner!

I was probably nine or ten in the mid seventies before I had McDonald's. Our family generally didn't go out to eat except on vacation. In the mid seventies a McDonald's was built in our neighborhood and I remember going for a birthday party. Mind you, the party was simply at McDonald's and we played some simple party games and got to go on a little tour of the kitchen because there was no such thing as the playroom back then.

I remember getting so excited when my parents decided we were going to get a pizza for dinner back in those days, because we really didn't do that more than a handful of times in a year back then. Sure wish I could get that pizza today, too. It was usually just simple pepperoni, but it came from an Italian bakery, didn't have even a spot of greasiness to it and was unbelievably delicious!

 

[PollyannaMom]

@Magpie, that graphic is really good. I knew portions had gotten bigger, but...wow!

not to criticize

That's a good point, too! If someone asks for help, and everyone goes on about how awful their past choices have been, I think guilt sets in instead of hope, and change feels even more daunting.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Any chance it's this one from the CDC?

I like that one too, but no, that wasn't it. I think there were pictures of several meals, on plates, side by side. The visual effect smacked you right in the face. Another visual effect I liked was from the same RD I mentioned earlier. She kept a vial, yes like the ones you draw blood with, full of fat and salt on display in her office. What was it an illustration of? A hot dog.

 

[cabanafrau]

Isn't that just semantics....they're not forbidden, but since I buy the groceries, I don't buy them, so they aren't in the house. What's the difference? If you teach kids good eating habits, I personally see no reason not to have that stuff in the house. To me, all of this is just common sense. Don't go to one extreme of letting them eat junk all day every day, but not going to another extreme of forbidding it in the house (no matter how you go about that).

Because you don't want to run the risk of forbidden fruit tasting the sweetest.

We're worried about that phenomenon with one of our godchildren regarding foods, and everything else. His mother micromanages every millimeter of his life to such extreme we are holding our breath in fear of what the future will bring.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

That's a good point, too! If someone asks for help, and everyone goes on about how awful their past choices have been, I think guilt sets in instead of hope, and change feels even more daunting.

Absolutely! I start all of my talks with patients saying that we're not looking backward, we're looking forward; that ALL of us are dealing with these issues, etc. I think it helps put them at ease that it's not going to be a hand-slapping session.

 

[wenrob]

@Magpie, that graphic is really good. I knew portions had gotten bigger, but...wow!

What was a Big Gulp (32 ozs?) at 7/11 when I was a kid is now the smallest you can get in a lot of places. While I ascribe to Klayfish's way of thinking for the most part that's one thing I always steer my kids away from; empty, liquid calories.

 

[cabanafrau]

Absolutely! I start all of my talks with patients saying that we're not looking backward, we're looking forward; that ALL of us are dealing with these issues, etc. I think it helps put them at ease that it's not going to be a hand-slapping session.

Adults get deterred from addressing their eating habits if they get sucked into the idea it's too late or if they feel they're never going to be able to give up this or that, so they never get started or they just give up.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Because you don't want to run the risk of forbidden fruit tasting the sweetest.

We're worried about that phenomenon with one of our godchildren regarding foods, and everything else. His mother micromanages every millimeter of his life to such extreme we are holding our breath in fear of what the future will bring.

I hear you. Before we had our own kids we observed someone in our own family like that and that, in part, helped us decide we weren't going to be that way. Kids wound up hiding snacks and candy in their rooms, and went to town once they had a little freedom. They also both developed strange eating habits as they got older - one drank nothing but Diet Coke and ate almost no variation in foods, probably as a result of exerting control when she could. It doesn't have to be that way.

 

[Klayfish]

What was a Big Gulp (32 ozs?) at 7/11 when I was a kid is now the smallest you can get in a lot of places. While I ascribe to Klayfish's way of thinking for the most part that's one thing I always steer my kids away from; empty, liquid calories.

You're not kidding. Some of those Big Gulp cup things are so big now that I could probably give a small child a bath in the darn thing.

Empty liquid calories are very dangerous, I totally agree. We limit our kids to one "soda" per week, and it's a caffeine free diet soda. Not that those are healthy, but they're zero calorie, zero sugar. Water is what they drink 90% of the time. DW will sometimes make them zero cal Crystal Light things like Fruit Punch or lemonade. We don't really let them drink any sugar drinks.

 

[mom2rtk]

The only thing I'd say about that is that I don't think "toxic" foods like pop-tarts and such should be totally forbidden for kids. As I've mentioned in a lot of threads, we're very health conscious, to an extreme for DW and I. We make the kids eat healthy foods, no doubt, and a lot of them. But they are 13, 9 and 9. I see nothing wrong with eating a pop tart sometimes, or some Cheeze-Itz or ice cream. If we teach them smart habits and that junk food is a treat, not a staple food, I have no issues with it.

My kids had friends from a family where the mom prided herself on having absolutely no junk food in their house. Every time one of them came over came over we (honestly) had to hide any snack cakes and soda we had on hand. One of their kids polished an entire box of Little Debbies and about a dozen Doctor Peppers while we were asleep (until we started hiding stuff).

 

[Magpie]

Isn't that just semantics....they're not forbidden, but since I buy the groceries, I don't buy them, so they aren't in the house. What's the difference? If you teach kids good eating habits, I personally see no reason not to have that stuff in the house. To me, all of this is just common sense. Don't go to one extreme of letting them eat junk all day every day, but not going to another extreme of forbidding it in the house (no matter how you go about that).

To me, it's about setting a good example and establishing good habits and good tastes.

The food in our house is food we intend to eat regularly. If we're not going to eat it on a regular basis, why would we have it on hand all the time? Ice cream left in the freezer goes hard. Chips left uneaten go stale. If there's either of these things in the house, they're meant to be eaten. And we will eat them. Who wouldn't? I don't leave any other kind of food sitting around uneaten, to be portioned out in tiny amounts. Why would I do that with junk food?

I know exactly how sneaky the whole, "We can keep junk food constantly available in the house and only eat it occasionally and be totally healthy!" can be. My mother in law would keep ice cream in the fridge and chips in the cupboard and chocolate bars in her dresser. She would go on about "moderation" while having "just a bit" of ice cream for dinner every night. And "muffins are healthy!" as she had one for breakfast every morning. And maybe another with lunch. And "this has to be eaten before it goes stale". She would snack on the treats she kept in the house all day (but just a little bite!), and then eat only small portions at meals, and claim that she was very aware of portion sizes. And yes, she was extremely obese. She had diabetes. Ironically, after she lost her ability to walk and moved into a nursing home where they controlled her meals, her diabetes cleared right up. Just before she died of cancer, last Christmas.

Her diet wreaked havoc on her health and very much reduced the quality of her last few years, including putting her through two knee surgeries.

Just because something isn't on our regular shopping list and isn't stocked in the pantry, that doesn't mean it's "banned". It just means it's not part of our regular daily diet. And I don't think anyone would argue that junk food should be part of your regular diet!

 

[North of Mouse]

I'm sorry, but I disagree completely with the pp about 'junk food' not being in the house. Kids are only 'kids' once and I know how much some things mean to them. Pop tarts, fruit roll ups, fruit loops, cookies, etc. were 'always' in our house when our children were small.

Was that the 'main' food groups? Absolutely not! Our children were taught 'moderation' at a very young age, and how/when they could have 'junk/snacks'. Trust me, they knew, because that was a consistent way of life with us. I knew, from my own perspective, not to 'forbid' certain things because it would cause craving, and binging when they 'could' get them. Vacations, special occasions, etc. were different.

Mealtimes were for 'all' at once. 'No' one had special foods - what was cooked was served and eaten - everything had to be 'tasted'. Otherwise, nothing was forced, but no eating until the next mealtime except for snack time. I knew exactly what their favorite foods were, so always included something each one liked.

We got lots of family exercise - kids have a way of mimicking how their parents eat/exercise. We made it fun.
There's no one thing that works for everyone, but some things are just set up to fail - it's lots of trial and error.

 

[North of Mouse]

My kids had friends from a family where the mom prided herself on having absolutely no junk food in their house. Every time one of them came over came over we (honestly) had to hide any snack cakes and soda we had on hand. One of their kids polished an entire box of Little Debbies and about a dozen Doctor Peppers while we were asleep (until we started hiding stuff).

A very good example of what can happen when you 'forbid' certain foods instead of having them in moderation! I also know a family that does the exact same thing. I really feel sorry for their children. They will be on their own someday, and won't be taught how to manage 'all' foods.

Another pp mentions her MIL being obese and having health issues because of junk food. Just because some people can not control their eating habits and fool themselves doesn't mean it can't be done. I've still got lots of junk food around our house, but it doesn't rule us. Our weights are great, eat healthy, exercise, but we eat our 'junk' sometimes too!!

 

[Magpie]

My kids had friends from a family where the mom prided herself on having absolutely no junk food in their house. Every time one of them came over came over we (honestly) had to hide any snack cakes and soda we had on hand. One of their kids polished an entire box of Little Debbies and about a dozen Doctor Peppers while we were asleep (until we started hiding stuff).

See, that is the complete opposite of what I did with my kids. We'd visit friends who had snack cakes, my kids - and I! - would have a snack cake and everyone would have a nice time.

Heck, one of the best things about a week at Grandma's (a ten hour drive away, so only a few times a year) was kicking back with big bags of chips, watching TV.

The routine food - ie, the food I wanted them to eat - was the stuff I kept in our pantry. We didn't have a ton of money when the kids were young, and it made no sense to me to waste it on junk food, especially since everyone else would share it with us anyway.

Also, I would be SO not down with another person's kid raiding my pantry in the middle of the night! I don't care what they're eating, that's just rude.

 

[Westcoastwild]

See, that is the complete opposite of what I did with my kids. We'd visit friends who had snack cakes, my kids - and I! - would have a snack cake and everyone would have a nice time.

Heck, one of the best things about a week at Grandma's (a ten hour drive away, so only a few times a year) was kicking back with big bags of chips, watching TV.

The routine food - ie, the food I wanted them to eat - was the stuff I kept in our pantry. We didn't have a ton of money when the kids were young, and it made no sense to me to waste it on junk food, especially since everyone else would share it with us anyway.

Also, I would be SO not down with another person's kid raiding my pantry in the middle of the night! I don't care what they're eating, that's just rude.

Yeah. There's a difference between forbidding junk entirely (I have also known parents do that) and just not keeping it in the house. If you bake cookies on occasion or whatever, that's great, but keeping fruit loops and pop tarts as regular groceries is not such a great idea. I don't care how much the kids like them- it's refined sugar they just don't need. It's like packing soda and Oreos in their lunches. They can express preferences and I'll buy anything healthy they like, but some stuff is just empty calorie junk that shouldn't be on their plate on a regular basis.

I've got to agree with you on the other part- when I saw that post I immediately thought- you hid the stuff instead of having a talk with the kid and parents, and forcing someone to replace that? I would not be cool with any kid sneaking a whole box of something in my kitchen, whether that's strawberries or snack cakes.

 

[mom2rtk]

I've got to agree with you on the other part- when I saw that post I immediately thought- you hid the stuff instead of having a talk with the kid and parents, and forcing someone to replace that? I would not be cool with any kid sneaking a whole box of something in my kitchen, whether that's strawberries or snack cakes.

Eh, the kids were really good friends. I knew if I told the mom they would get in trouble. That wasn't my goal. I think it's just sad that it had all been so forbidden to them that they would feel the need to do that.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Eh, the kids were really good friends. I knew if I told the mom they would get in trouble. That wasn't my goal. I think it's just sad that it had all been so forbidden to them that they would feel the need to do that.

Yeah, but taking stuff from your kitchen is pretty much theft, and I feel like I would have at least had a chat with the kid about appropriate guest behavior. A kid on a strict allowance could also feel the "need" to take a twenty from your purse. They didn't ask you; they knew it was wrong.

I get what you mean about the mom though. My neighbor was like that. We ate dinner one night there and everything was low fat and so, so bland. I finally understood why her kids were so eager to come over for after school snack. All I could think afterwards is that I really need a cheeseburger. Instead of trying new recipes that had flavor, she just made traditional casseroles and sides with nonfat low sodium everything. And skinless chicken, sugar free lemonade... if I lived in that house for any length of time, I'd live on white bread, and I suspect that's exactly what the middle kid did, and that was probably the root of his obesity related health issues.

 

[qa4ever]

I don't buy a lot of "junk" foods either. For example, my kids don't drink juice at home. Are they forbidden to drink it? Nope, of course not. But, at least once a week they are going for a play date, or going to a birthday party, or somewhere that there is juice. There is soooo much sugar in juice (even the "Healthy" ones), and really it is healthier to eat fruit. So I don't want them eating that every day. Once every week or two is more than enough and they never ask me to buy it. Pop is even worse in my opinion, since at least some juices (but check your labels, not all) have vitamin C. I don't buy Pop either. They can have it, but they don't need that on a daily or even weekly basis. A few times a year is plenty, and to be honest, my kids will often choose water over pop anyways half the time.

That doesn't mean every single thing I buy is 100 % healthy. My kids do have cereals, for example, like Shreddies or Cheerios. And even though they are not the cocoa crisps or lucky charms, they are still filled with sugar and carbs. But it is a quick breakfast to make in a pinch. Do they eat it every day? No. But I'd much rather they have Shreddies than Pop Tarts!

I did have a friend once whose kids were not allowed to have any food she didn't cook or make, and it was all 100% organic, fresh, nothing packaged, and no sugar at all, it was very extreme. She brought her own food for the kids wherever they went, birthday parties (and she would stay to ensure no one fed her kid), play dates, etc. She said she didn't deprive her kids because she gave them 1 chocolate sprinkle per day to aid their "sweets cravings". Her kids were quite young when I knew her (under 7), but I think they will have issues growing up.

My kids get so many "treats" outside the house these days, really every time you turn around there is one treat or another (birthday parties, play dates, school parties, kid's bringing treats to school for their birthday, etc). I do try to limit what I buy at home, which is still where they eat the majority of their meals.

The biggest changes we made recently had to do with our lunch and dinner staples and we no longer eat anything from a box, or frozen. We did think we were being healthy before! We didn't eat take out or go for fast food, etc. But we weren't Frozen items, jarred sauces, etc are all filled with msg, sugar, and other preservatives we don't need. Now, everything is home cooked, from scratch, with only natural ingredients and we all feel so much better.

Oh, and another things. Dessert. I'm not sure how we got into a society that so many families have dessert every night! We don't have dessert at home. I don't want to get into the battles I hear other friends talking about such as their kids constantly asking, "Did I eat enough that I can have dessert now?" My kids eat till they are full, and when they're done, they're done. It is an important life skill to learn when you are full, not when you've "eaten enough to qualify for dessert". Like I said, there is so much hidden sugar in almost everything we as a society eat, the last thing we need is dessert on top of that. Empty calories, filled with sugar. The more you eat those things, the more you crave them also. It is a vicious cycle. Again, can my kids eat dessert out of the house on a special occasion? Sure. But they don't need it 7 days a week. Plus, the meal itself should be the highlight, not rushing through to look forward to the dessert.

There is a reason that so many people are overweight these days. I live in Canada, and it does seem to be even worse in the States. Not sure if it is perception or an actual fact. What I noticed more than anything, when I visit the US, is that in the US it does seem to start at a younger age. It's sad really. But again, it's not just about weight. It's more about health. And there aren't a darn thing healthy about pop tarts, slim jims or cheeze its.