Fearing 48 years of dues

[K6+Mickey]

Im so excited and obsessed with buying into Riviera direct at 200 points. This would be our first contract. However, the idea of paying dues for 48 years ( and ultimately our kids, if they want to keep the contract), is what keeps us from making the call. Is there a way to think about it that makes it less scary?

 

[Shellyred8]

Calculate how much it would cost you to stay at Riviera for a week each year. Then compare than to the price of annual dues. You should see that the price of annual dues is much less than the price of a week trip at Riviera each year. This should help a little bit.

 

[CarolynFH]

Im so excited and obsessed with buying into Riviera direct at 200 points. This would be our first contract. However, the idea of paying dues for 48 years ( and ultimately our kids, if they want to keep the contract), is what keeps us from making the call. Is there a way to think about it that makes it less scary?

Well, we’ve been members for 24 years, our BWV is all paid for, so we stay there for the cost of dues. In December 2020 we brought our adult kids & grands for 6 nights in two 2BR villas at BWV. Each room cost 297 points, which was approximately $365 per night in dues alone, or $433 per night in dues plus our buy-in cost averaged over the 45 years we expect to own (between buy-in and BWV contract expiration in 2042). I have no idea what the cash cost of those rooms would have been, but I’m pretty sure it would have been more than $433 per night for each one!

DVC is not something to keep for just 4 or 5 years. The value of DVC is in using it for 10 years or more, as cash prices for those villas rise (dues rise too, but not as high).

 

[pianomanzano]

For years you can't or don't want to go, you can rent out your points for more than double the cost of the dues. You can get $18/pt from brokers or upwards of $21-22/pt if you rent privately, whereas dues are currently around $8/pt for Riviera. You can also pay your dues with discounted gift cards.

 

[LYSE]

For years you can't or don't want to go, you can rent out your points for more than double the cost of the dues. You can get $18/pt from brokers or upwards of $21-22/pt if you rent privately, whereas dues are currently around $8/pt for Riviera. You can also pay your dues with discounted gift cards.

This, there is so much room between the cost of dues and rental rates that I simply do not find it reasonable to assume you can't cover your dues.

 

[UrsulaWantsYourSoul]

There's no promise of the resale market being as amazing as it currently is but for eons members have had no problems reselling their contracts (often at a profit) so if you or your kids in the future decide to sell your contracts you can release yourself from those dues forever.

 

[BillPA]

Just don't add in inflation to those dues cost, if you want to sleep well. Our OKW dues went from $2.63 a point in 1993 to $8.81 in 2022. That's 335% increase. $920 to $3,083

Don't count on a good resale price with the restrictions on Riviera points.

 

[SleeplessInTO]

You can always sell the contract. I believe there are ways to get out of an undesirable timeshare. Hopefully this one can be sold for more than $1 down the line.

I totally understand your concern though. The initial outlay isn’t the scary part. The dues are. We bought BWV initially with 2042 expiration being a pro for the decision.

 

[Flash_Sloth]

You are wise to pay attention to the annual dues. As I was doing lots of decision making calculations in a spreadsheet, it became obvious that over time, the dues became the largest part of the equation. Maybe hope that your salary and investments can keep up with inflation?

Today at RIV, the dues are $8.38/point/year. If that increases by 3% per year for 47 years, then 8.38*(1.03^47)= $33.62/point/year. The dues you'll pay from 2060-2069 will be greater than your original purchase price in 2022.

Just think of how much more you'll be paying for hotels if you don't buy, and continue to do the same kinds of vacations for decades. I decided that it will pay off in the long run for me. You'll have to crunch the numbers and decide if it works out for you.

 

[supersnoop]

That's 335% increase.

That's about a 4.25% annualized increase. 30 years makes for big numbers.

 

[supersnoop]

If that increases by 3% per year for 47 years, then 8.38*(1.03^47)= $33.62/point/year. The dues you'll pay from 2060-2069 will be greater than your original purchase price in 2022.

Seems like the current price of points is higher than $33.62.

 

[Sandisw]

We didn’t think of it that way. We just decided how long we needed to own in which we could give it away and went from there.

As long as there are parks, we figured someone would want it!

 

[Flash_Sloth]

Seems like the current price of points is higher than $33.62.

Definitely. I wasn't saying that per year; maybe I worded it poorly. The dues you'll pay for the 10 years of 2060 + 2061 + 2062 ... + 2069 will be much higher than your purchase price today.

Sure, you're paying a lot for the up front purchase price, but over the long haul, you're paying much more for the dues.

 

[mac_tlc]

Just don't add in inflation to those dues cost, if you want to sleep well. Our OKW dues went from $2.63 a point in 1993 to $8.81 in 2022. That's 335% increase. $920 to $3,083

Don't count on a good resale price with the restrictions on Riviera points.

In 1991, OKW's first year, dues were $2.51. In 2022 it's $8.81. Thats a 4.13% annual compound growth rate over its life. Not a horrible annual increase over its life so far.


mac_tlc

 

[pianomanzano]

I can't even imagine what park tickets will cost in 2060-2069! Doesn't matter to me though, my biggest concern will be which one of my kids is going to carry out me out to my balcony and watch the skyliner haha

 

[J-Dog]

Don't count on a good resale price with the restrictions on Riviera points.

This keeps being repeated on these boards, but at this point it's a complete guess since it hasn't happened so far.

 

[supersnoop]

This keeps being repeated on these boards, but at this point it's a complete guess since it hasn't happened so far.

RIV has the longest contract length, and yet is selling for at least 20% less than BLT, PVB, and VGF. The resale restriction certainly is having an impact; albeit perhaps not as significant as had been initially feared.

 

[J-Dog]

RIV has the longest contract length, and yet is selling for at least 20% less than BLT, PVB, and VGF. The resale restriction certainly is having an impact; albeit perhaps not as significant as had been initially feared.

I would have to dig for it, which I don't have time for - but there is a chart that is frequently circulated around here that shows that RIV's percentage of drop-off between direct sale price and resale price is right in the middle of the other resorts. So I agree to disagree, I guess.

 

[pianomanzano]

The real test will come in 4-5 years when there'll be more people selling. There's only around 50 RIV resale contracts on the market right now, not enough to information to see how much of an impact resale restrictions have.

 

[BeachClub2014]

RIV has the longest contract length, and yet is selling for at least 20% less than BLT, PVB, and VGF. The resale restriction certainly is having an impact; albeit perhaps not as significant as had been initially feared.

Assuming that your 20% comment is accurate, what evidence can you offer to indicate it is because of restrictions? I hear this often said, but there's never any solid proof that restrictions are having any direct impact on sales, either direct or resale.