2020 DVC Annual Dues

[zavandor]

They can also send cabins and bungalows to cash when Members use points to cruise or to utilize certain other options in the Collections. There are LOTS of points used in that manner. (Just my opinion, but I think there are many more villas sent to DRC due to Members' choices than are sent there as breakage). If DVC is sending bungalows & cabins to DRC to pay for Members choices, it's a big benefit to us, assuming that there are cash customers eager to book them. It provides $$ to pay for Members' choices and sucks up points that otherwise would probably go to book studios or other villas that Members want. Win-win!

A Bungalow requires 227 points during the holidays per night, a studio lake view 42 points.
Rack rate for a bungalow for that night is $4832, for a studio is $1170.
So not only renting 5 studios is easier, they also give more money and leave a few spare points. It's more convenient for Disney to use the points they get from exchanges to book studios and rent the bungalows using breakage inventory.

 

[CarolMN]

A Bungalow requires 227 points during the holidays per night, a studio lake view 42 points.
Rack rate for a bungalow for that night is $4832, for a studio is $1170.
So not only renting 5 studios is easier, they also give more money and leave a few spare points. It's more convenient for Disney to use the points they get from exchanges to book studios and rent the bungalows using breakage inventory.

Don't disagree that it may be more convenient / easier for DVCMC to do that, but I honestly do not think that they do. DVCMC does have a duty to operate in the best interests of the Membership as a whole and I have no evidence to suggest that they do otherwise (except for the attempted increase in the lock off premiums, and that may not have been done with the intent to advantage Disney over DVC Members).

In the end, it comes down to assumptions. None of us has any legitimate data to know what villas get sent to DRC for breakage or Member choices. I prefer not to assume the worst without data. If I had actual data to show that DVCMC is not living up to its obligations to Members, I'd sell. YMMV.

 

[DougEMG]

DVCMC does have a duty to operate in the best interests of the Membership as a whole and I have no evidence to suggest that they do otherwise (except for the attempted increase in the lock off premiums, and that may not have been done with the intent to advantage Disney over DVC Members).

In the end, it comes down to assumptions. None of us has any legitimate data to know what villas get sent to DRC for breakage or Member choices. I prefer not to assume the worst without data. If I had actual data to show that DVCMC is not living up to its obligations to Members, I'd sell. YMMV.

With no independent audit on how DVCMC operates that members can see, there is no way to verify that DVCMC is operating in the best interests of the membership. Given that there isn't a firewall between DVCMC and the rest of Disney, the potential for abuse exists. We have seen that same kind of problem happen in other industries.

While previously I always gave Disney the benefit of doubt, their resent behaviour has made me question if I still should.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

A Bungalow requires 227 points during the holidays per night, a studio lake view 42 points.
Rack rate for a bungalow for that night is $4832, for a studio is $1170.
So not only renting 5 studios is easier, they also give more money and leave a few spare points. It's more convenient for Disney to use the points they get from exchanges to book studios and rent the bungalows using breakage inventory.

Don't disagree that it may be more convenient / easier for DVCMC to do that, but I honestly do not think that they do. DVCMC does have a duty to operate in the best interests of the Membership as a whole and I have no evidence to suggest that they do otherwise (except for the attempted increase in the lock off premiums, and that may not have been done with the intent to advantage Disney over DVC Members).

In the end, it comes down to assumptions. None of us has any legitimate data to know what villas get sent to DRC for breakage or Member choices. I prefer not to assume the worst without data. If I had actual data to show that DVCMC is not living up to its obligations to Members, I'd sell. YMMV.

With no independent audit on how DVCMC operates that members can see, there is no way to verify that DVCMC is operating in the best interests of the membership. Given that there isn't a firewall between DVCMC and the rest of Disney, the potential for abuse exists. We have seen that same kind of problem happen in other industries.

While previously I always gave Disney the benefit of doubt, their resent behaviour has made me question if I still should.

I always thought the cash side just had a pool of points, then could reserve whatever was requested from the cash guest.
I never knew they have an actually room type set aside.

 

[crvetter]

I always thought the cash side just had a pool of points, then could reserve whatever was requested from the cash guest.
I never knew they have an actually room type set aside.

Disney prebooks the rooms basically on spec, just as DVC members. They then put those spec bookings online. If they had their cash guest compete against the DVC members they would never win and DVC members would take all the good choices.

Now what happens if the cash guests don't take all the rooms you can occasionally see at 31 days prior rooms being added to the available inventory because the cash side is essentially cancelling their reservations, at least that is my speculation and was vaguely confirmed when I was told Disney has every right to rent (like an owner) but can do so in a commercial manner.

 

[zavandor]

Don't disagree that it may be more convenient / easier for DVCMC to do that, but I honestly do not think that they do. DVCMC does have a duty to operate in the best interests of the Membership as a whole and I have no evidence to suggest that they do otherwise (except for the attempted increase in the lock off premiums, and that may not have been done with the intent to advantage Disney over DVC Members).

In the end, it comes down to assumptions. None of us has any legitimate data to know what villas get sent to DRC for breakage or Member choices. I prefer not to assume the worst without data. If I had actual data to show that DVCMC is not living up to its obligations to Members, I'd sell. YMMV.

I have proof that the current management has decided in recent years to change the interpretation of the POS for their advantage at the expense of members.
And in around a month we'll get a confirmation if they actually tried to do something illegal as well.
I do think those are enough to lose trust in them and be on the lookout for other shady actions. It's their fault if they now have gained a bad reputation.
Regarding selling if I don't trust them: I have not married them. I have purchased a timeshare that gives me a cheap room in a place I like and this is still valid, so I don't see a reason to sell. I do not trust the current management and as a consumer I'll use the tools at my disposal to continue to enjoy what I've paid.

 

[Disn3yVision]

Is it possible that the overflow of bungalow points is one factor keeping PVB dues down. With so many points spread across so few (relative) units, doesn’t this make the dues lower on average per owner than other resorts? Assuming the resort is oversold with bungalow points inflation.... Maybe this is a small silver lining here?

 

[DisMomof2Princesses]

Here is the YOY increases for 2020, 2019 and 2018. As expected Riviera had no increase (a small negligible decrease). Missing OKW's dues for 2020.

Year

OKW

BWV

VB

VB(s)

HHI

BRV(vwl)

BCV

SSR

AKV

BLT

VGC

ADV

ADV(s)

VGF

PVB

CCV

RVA

2020​

8.39%

2.72%​

6.81%​

6.99%​

6.32%​

6.30%​

1.78%​

5.70%​

3.07%​

2.77%​

5.24%​

5.98%​

5.92%​

2.69%​

0.46%​

0.37%​

-0.02%​

2019​

7.59%​

9.47%​

11.14%​

11.48%​

10.88%​

5.63%​

7.76%​

9.22%​

10.06%​

8.11%​

6.63%​

4.38%​

4.42%​

4.24%​

9.03%​

2.20%​

2018​

4.84%​

1.24%​

5.18%​

3.39%​

6.19%​

5.96%​

2.71%​

4.64%​

2.58%​

5.34%​

4.81%​

7.11%​

7.20%​

3.90%​

0.98%​

-0.95%​

What is interesting is SSR and BRV have the biggest WDW increases. I'll probably go back and look at 2019 vs 2020 line by line to see why. The rest of the resorts (sans CCV and RVA) are similar increases of 2-3%.

Edit: Added OKW. This is interesting SSR, OKW, and BRV all had major increases this year. All 3 have the new style of hard goods refurb (or will in the case of BRV). I wonder if that caused some of this for those resorts (contrary to DVC's announcement last year it wasn't expected to cause dues to rise).

I thought the announcement said it wasn't expected to cause dues to rise myself. I was SHOCKED to see how much our SSR dues have gone up! I mean, I guess it's still cheaper than paying cash out of pocket, but in 4 years our fees/dues have increased over $300! I don't understand - if so many people are buying into DVC, why do the dues need to increase so much every year???

 

[CanadaDisney05]

I thought the announcement said it wasn't expected to cause dues to rise myself. I was SHOCKED to see how much our SSR dues have gone up! I mean, I guess it's still cheaper than paying cash out of pocket, but in 4 years our fees/dues have increased over $300! I don't understand - if so many people are buying into DVC, why do the dues need to increase so much every year???

The sales price of DVC covers the initial capital expenditure (building the resort) + Disney's profit. The maintenance fees cover the ongoing expenses (transportation, building maintenance, room cleaning, front desk employees, etc....). Maintenance fees have to go up because the costs of everything else in the world goes up too. Some would say that DVC maintenance fees have gone up more than typical inflation, but to not expect them to go up at all wouldn't be feasible

 

[crvetter]

if so many people are buying into DVC, why do the dues need to increase so much every year???

Well this is because the number of points per DVC resort is static and doesn't change. So more people buying into sold out resorts are buying "recycled" points. And since your dues are used to pay your specific resort costs only you get rising costs because stuff gets more expensive (it's just how inflation and expanding economies work).

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I thought the announcement said it wasn't expected to cause dues to rise myself. I was SHOCKED to see how much our SSR dues have gone up! I mean, I guess it's still cheaper than paying cash out of pocket, but in 4 years our fees/dues have increased over $300! I don't understand - if so many people are buying into DVC, why do the dues need to increase so much every year???

This is why dues, in the long run, will be by far the most expensive part of your purchase.
You bought the right to stay, but all the upkeep you pay for every year. Those costs increase.

 

[AKNOTTS66]

They do have those numbers, page 1 of the document (really the third page).

View attachment 453078

does anyone have one of these condominium statements for Riviera? I'm interested in seeing the costs for transportation and if Riviera is paying more for their transportation with the skyliner than monorail resorts.

 

[pkrieger2287]

does anyone have one of these condominium statements for Riviera? I'm interested in seeing the costs for transportation and if Riviera is paying more for their transportation with the skyliner than monorail resorts.

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.g...iation-notices/2019/2019_Condo_Notice_RVA.pdf

 

[drusba]

does anyone have one of these condominium statements for Riviera? I'm interested in seeing the costs for transportation and if Riviera is paying more for their transportation with the skyliner than monorail resorts.

For some comparison, Riviera is $1.14 per point for transportation compared to $.65 for AKV (which has only buses) and $.52 for BWV which has both buses and boats. My guess is that the Skyway is not the major part of that difference, but instead the fact that Riviera is a hotel-like stand-alone DVC resort, while BWV and AKV, also hotel-like resorts, share transportation costs for the resort with the hotel side of Disney.

 

[AKNOTTS66]

For some comparison, Riviera is $1.14 per point for transportation compared to $.65 for AKV (which has only buses) and $.52 for BWV which has both buses and boats. My guess is that the Skyway is not the major part of that difference, but instead the fact that Riviera is a hotel-like stand-alone DVC resort, while BWV and AKV, also hotel-like resorts, share transportation costs for the resort with the hotel side of Disney.

it could also be that they budgeted for the Skyliner and Busses to be used full time just in case the skyliner broke down. I guess just wishfull thinking the dues might go down some on Riviera. I still can't figure out why its so much more. Now if we knew it wouldn't go up for 3 years while other resorts did then it would be more reassuring. Which it seems like the newer ones stay similar right? Exp. Copper Creek? Not much of a change this year at all.

 

[sethschroeder]

it could also be that they budgeted for the Skyliner and Busses to be used full time just in case the skyliner broke down. I guess just wishfull thinking the dues might go down some on Riviera. I still can't figure out why its so much more. Now if we knew it wouldn't go up for 3 years while other resorts did then it would be more reassuring. Which it seems like the newer ones stay similar right? Exp. Copper Creek? Not much of a change this year at all.

Front desk is more as well if you compare it likely because of how they decided to do that check in process.

 

[Sandisw]

it could also be that they budgeted for the Skyliner and Busses to be used full time just in case the skyliner broke down. I guess just wishfull thinking the dues might go down some on Riviera. I still can't figure out why its so much more. Now if we knew it wouldn't go up for 3 years while other resorts did then it would be more reassuring. Which it seems like the newer ones stay similar right? Exp. Copper Creek? Not much of a change this year at all.

My hope is that next year, we may see a smaller increase when they have a more precise cost. I’m sure they are well skilled at figuring out, but it was still an estimate.

But, when all expenses have to be covered via DVC only because no hotel side, I’m not expecting to see it ever go down.

 

[Sandisw]

Front desk is more as well if you compare it likely because of how they decided to do that check in process.

Can you share how it’s done?

Here’s what I don’t get..Front desk at SSR total budget is like $9 million, where RIV is only $2.6 million..yes, per point is less because SSR has a lot more

Both are DVC only resorts and I’m trying to figure out why SSR total yearly cost for that would be so much more...maybe More behind the scenes?

 

[zavandor]

Can you share how it’s done?

Here’s what I don’t get..Front desk at SSR total budget is like $9 million, where RIV is only $2.6 million..yes, per point is less because SSR has a lot more

Both are DVC only resorts and I’m trying to figure out why SSR total yearly cost for that would be so much more...maybe More behind the scenes?

A few guesses:
- magic bands are not free, they're paid by dues
- since more people check in, more people work at the desks
- more time to prepare documents for checkin
- more time needed after checkout, for example to sort out billing problems

 

[drusba]

Can you share how it’s done?

Here’s what I don’t get..Front desk at SSR total budget is like $9 million, where RIV is only $2.6 million..yes, per point is less because SSR has a lot more

Both are DVC only resorts and I’m trying to figure out why SSR total yearly cost for that would be so much more...maybe More behind the scenes?

I do not know the SSR actual figures for administration and front desk, although $9M sounds high, e.g., BWV is only about $4.1M. Nevertheless, the total figures you are seeing in the Riviera budget for 2020 do not reflect the total operational or capital costs of the entire resort. The figures you are seeing are based on what has already been sold and what is likely to be dedicated to DVC during 2020. DVD still has a lion's share of the resort and the amount that it is likely to be responsible for by end of 2020 for unsold units is not included in the annual budget. As Riviera gets sold year over year, you will see those total numbers per budget item increase and then once the resort sells out, you will have total actual numbers. More reliable at this time is the per point costs set out because those are determined based on the total points applicable to the resort in relation to the total budget for the resort that includes everything still unsold.