Another high school shooting, this time in MD

I get what you're saying. Just wanted to point out that I actually don't view the past with rose-colored glasses. Lots of things are so much better for me now, especially as a woman, then the timeframe I grew up. The only thing I have really noted was a lack of politeness and respect by society as a whole. Not that people aren't respectful; they are. But the tone is certainly different.
To the bolded-sorry I was so not meaning to mean you personally were looking at it in rose-colored glasses just that we in general tend to think things are so much worse than they used to be in certain respects like people being killed by another person.
 
The thing I am curious about is why all of a sudden we have this huge uptick in these shootings. What is the variable that changed? It isn't the guns? If we talk specifically about the AR-15 it became available in 1963 while the AWB came into effect in 1994. That is 30 years of this gun being as easy to acquire, if not easier, as it is now without school shooting after school shooting. Hunting firearms have been available even longer yet school shootings are a new phenomenon. Even Columbine was isolated and didn't have another shooting the week after that and the week after that.
But here's the thing... the notion that "these sorts of shootings" have experienced a "huge uptick" is more rooted in perception than reality. From NPR:
Despite Heightened Fear Of School Shootings, It's Not A Growing Epidemic
The Parkland shooting last month has energized student activists, who are angry and frustrated over gun violence. But it's also contributed to the impression that school shootings are a growing epidemic in America.
In truth, they're not.
"Schools are safer today than they had been in previous decades," says James Alan Fox, a professor of criminology at Northeastern University who has studied the phenomenon of mass murder since the 1980s.
Fox and doctoral student Emma Fridel crunched the numbers, and the results should come as a relief to parents.
First, while multiple-victim shootings in general are on the rise, that's not the case in schools. There's an average of about one a year — in a country with more than 100,000 schools.
"There were more back in the '90s than in recent years," says Fox. "For example, in one school year — 1997-98 — there were four multiple-victim shootings in schools."
Second, the overall number of gunshot victims at schools is also down. According to Fox's numbers, back in the 1992-93 school year, about 0.55 students per million were shot and killed; in 2014-15, that rate was closer to 0.15 per million.
"The difference is the impression, the perception that people have," Fox says — and he traces that to cable news and social media.
Here's a link to the Northeastern University analysis. It's a very interesting read. Even the type of shootings like the one that took place in Maryland (not a "mass shooting" since there was only three people injured) are not on the increase. Even when looking at cases when there is only one victim there has not been an increase since the 1990's... in fact there has been a decrease. But instead we're flooded with media promoted stories like the 6th grade kid that decided to "write a will" because he thinks there's a reasonable chance that he will be gunned down in school before he graduates, as well as interviews with students that think that shootings like Parkland "happen all the time."

This looks a lot like the national concern of people in the 1980's when the perceived problem was child abductions in public places. While such things did happen, and the pain and suffering of people like the parents of Adam Walsh were quite real and they went through things that no parent should ever have to endure... the national press around this and other cases generated a national perception about the risks of such abductions that didn't in fact match the reality.

As for people that think that banning the notorious "AR-15" and other "assault weapons" will somehow retard the number of mass shootings, I have an honest question... Can any such person explain to me in which ways a Ruger Mini-14 Carbine "Ranch" rifle (or others like it) would be an inferior selection to a potential school shooter bend on mass casualties over an "AR-15" (once banned)? The Ruger "Ranch" is not an "assault rifle" under the normal definitions lawmakers use and it is not even listed as one of the over 200 firearms explicitly named in the "assault weapons" ban bill that was introduced into Congress after the Parkland shooting. This is even more ironic in that this weapon was the primary tool in an episode of mass murder of even more school-aged children than Columbine, or Sandy Hook, or Parkland. This type of firearm has been around much longer than the "AR-15" or similar weapons. If the Rugers aren't available, how about a couple of standard handguns with normal magazines?
 
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Not really, I answered a question with what I think. I made no claim that is how anyone else thought.

Actually it’s very ironic to be telling another poster to not inject your own views on something that has nothing to do with them. (Thoughts and prayers)
It is so throwing stones in a glass house thatnit is laughable.
 
So I got into a debate with my friend about this..

http://www.nj.com/ocean/index.ssf/2018/03/lacey_students_gun_school_board.html

For big gun fans, it seems obvious. I am sure you would all believe it is totally wrong for the school to do this. I am mostly curious then what people who don't like guns feel about this...
I honestly can’t see how anyone would support a rule that states kids whose family simply own a gun will face punishment from the school system for simply owning it. What’s worse is the ex board member that tried defending it.
 


I honestly can’t see how anyone would support a rule that states kids whose family simply own a gun will face punishment from the school system for simply owning it. What’s worse is the ex board member that tried defending it.

To be fair, that isn't what the rule said. From the article, "Before the policy was changed, it had stated that, 'any student who is reported to be in possession of a weapon of any type for any reason or purpose whether on or off school grounds,' would be subject to penalties including up to a one-year suspension." I don't think that parents' ownership of guns would equate to possession by their children.

I'm pretty liberal in terms of background checks, gun registeries, waiting periods, restrictions on what kinds of guns people can own, etc. That being said, the forner rule and suspensions were absolutely wrong. There is no reason those kids should have been restricted from going to a range and even posting about it. That was a huge overreach by their district.
 
Actually it’s very ironic to be telling another poster to not inject your own views on something that has nothing to do with them. (Thoughts and prayers)
It is so throwing stones in a glass house thatnit is laughable.

Well I stand corrected, you are right. How horrible of me to be offering some comfort to someone who may need it. Thanks for pointing out how wrong you think that is, I might have made the mistake of thinking you had some compassion.
 
Well I stand corrected, you are right. How horrible of me to be offering some comfort to someone who may need it. Thanks for pointing out how wrong you think that is, I might have made the mistake of thinking you had some compassion.

You have completely missed the point.
I am going to assume on purpose.
 
To be fair, that isn't what the rule said. From the article, "Before the policy was changed, it had stated that, 'any student who is reported to be in possession of a weapon of any type for any reason or purpose whether on or off school grounds,' would be subject to penalties including up to a one-year suspension." I don't think that parents' ownership of guns would equate to possession by their children.

I'm pretty liberal in terms of background checks, gun registeries, waiting periods, restrictions on what kinds of guns people can own, etc. That being said, the forner rule and suspensions were absolutely wrong. There is no reason those kids should have been restricted from going to a range and even posting about it. That was a huge overreach by their district.
I think I paraphrased it pretty well, what part do you think I got wrong?

ETA- ok I guess I think ownership and possession as one in the same.
At least we both agree this was a bad rule.
 
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This looks a lot like the national concern of people in the 1980's when the perceived problem was child abductions in public places. While such things did happen, and the pain and suffering of people like the parents of Adam Walsh were quite real and they went through things that no parent should ever have to endure... the national press around this and other cases generated a national perception about the risks of such abductions that didn't in fact match the reality.

I do think that's a valid point. News stories travel farther and faster now than ever before, and they are revisited over and over - which can make them seem more common.

I also agree that calling any shooting meeting wide criteria a "school shooting" lumps a very personal crime on a campus after hours in with a random bullet spray during classes that has no particular victims in mind.

But it's exactly that randomness that I think breeds the real fear. If there are 100 shooting deaths, but they are all "known victim" crimes, associated (in the minds of the public) with dangerous people in dangerous places, then the average citizen feels pretty safe - they go about their everyday lives without much worry. But if there are 75 random shooting deaths - at concerts, and movies, and malls, and schools... then the average person is way more frightened. Even though the statistics say they are less likely to be killed, they feel far more likely to be killed for no reason. It's the loss of control that increases the fear so much, not the actual numbers.
 
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I think I paraphrased it pretty well, what part do you think I got wrong?

ETA- ok I guess I think ownership and possession as one in the same.
At least we both agree this was a bad rule.
Legally speaking "possession" is not necessarily synonymous with "ownership."
 
So I got into a debate with my friend about this..

http://www.nj.com/ocean/index.ssf/2018/03/lacey_students_gun_school_board.html

For big gun fans, it seems obvious. I am sure you would all believe it is totally wrong for the school to do this. I am mostly curious then what people who don't like guns feel about this...
Of course it is totally wrong for the school to suspend students for participating in legal activities, with their parents or their parent's permission, during off school hours.

It doesn't matter what it is.

What's next? Suspending students for attending church services that the teacher doesn't agree with? Reading the newspaper?
 
To be fair, that isn't what the rule said. From the article, "Before the policy was changed, it had stated that, 'any student who is reported to be in possession of a weapon of any type for any reason or purpose whether on or off school grounds,' would be subject to penalties including up to a one-year suspension." I don't think that parents' ownership of guns would equate to possession by their children.

I'm pretty liberal in terms of background checks, gun registeries, waiting periods, restrictions on what kinds of guns people can own, etc. That being said, the forner rule and suspensions were absolutely wrong. There is no reason those kids should have been restricted from going to a range and even posting about it. That was a huge overreach by their district.
My guess that this rule was in place to cover kids who bring weapons to school as well as kids who brandish or use weapons off school grounds in a threatening manner. It doesn't make sense to apply that rule to kids who are at a shooting range with their parents. I bet if we dug a little more in the student handbook or school regulations we would find "zero tolerance" somewhere. The rule was there and the administrators felt they were obligated to suspend the kids because of some zero tolerance nonsense. I'm glad they changed their minds ... it was the right thing to do.
 
Legally speaking "possession" is not necessarily synonymous with "ownership."
Maybe not, but it’s not a law, it’s a school policy, and possession and ownership are defined by using each other:
own
ōn/
verb
gerund or present participle: owning
  1. 1.
    have (something) as one's own; possess.
pos·ses·sion
pəˈzeSHən/
noun
  1. 1.
    the state of having, owning, or controlling something.
 
But it's exactly that randomness that I think breeds the real fear. If there are 100 shooting deaths, but they are all "known victim" crimes, associated (in the minds of the public) with dangerous people in dangerous places, then the average citizen feels pretty safe - they go about their everyday lives without much worry. But if there are 75 random shooting deaths - at concerts, and movies, and malls, and schools... then the average person is way more frightened. Even though the statistics say they are less likely to be killed, they feel far more likely to be killed for no reason. It's the loss of control that increases the fear so much, not the actual numbers.
There's some truth to that, but let me frame it another way. Travelling is a "known risk" activity. Each day there are over 100 people in the US that die in car accidents alone. Very few of those deaths get any sort of media attention outside of a mention locally. It's the distributed nature of these events that allow them to fly under the radar of our national psyche in questioning the safety of, or fearing, those activities. But when something like a bus plunges down a ravine, a commercial plane crashes, or there's cases of other transportation mass casualties, we suddenly start to question if those activities are "safe" for us personally. Even more so if there are a couple of similar such events in close proximity, time wise, regardless of recent prior "accident free" records within those industries.
 
The family announced they are removing the girl that was shot from life support tonight. So sad...
 
Maybe not, but it’s not a law, it’s a school policy, and possession and ownership are defined by using each other:
own
ōn/
verb
gerund or present participle: owning
  1. 1.
    have (something) as one's own; possess.
pos·ses·sion
pəˈzeSHən/
noun
  1. 1.
    the state of having, owning, or controlling something.
I think the school is in the wrong, but your dictionary definitions back up what I said. Possession can mean either "having", or "owning" or "controlling". You can have something or control something without "owning" it per your definition. If I walk into a school with my friend's knife in my pocket, I still may be found in violation of possessing a weapon on school grounds... even if it's my friend's knife. However, at that same time, my friend may own the knife but he won't be in possession of it.

My point is that it appears that the school originally applied their policy as written... it was just a bad policy. I believe that robinb is correct that their intent was to be able to punish a student who is found to be in possession of a firearm (presumably illegally) outside of school grounds in the same manner as policies that punish students for drinking off of school property, but the weapons policy's author didn't seem to take in to consideration that students could in fact legally and legitimately use firearms outside of school grounds. And it seems that someone at the school initially decided to take a literal interpretation of that policy when they suspended the kids.
 

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