Anybody else concerned about rioting and Disney Springs?

[JimMIA]

I wouldn't go -- not so much because of the risk of trouble at Disney Springs, but for the potential along your route of travel...especially in the Tampa area. You are much more vulnerable in your car than at home.

And as others have posted, DS is closing very early, so why push your luck?

 

[chicagoshannon]

I'm more concerned with the rioting happening in my area today. They've closed stores and asked people to stay inside and this is during the DAY!

I'm not even in Chicago but about 20 miles outside of the city.

 

[brockash]

I ask because my father who lives just outside of Tampa is begging me not to go on our way down to Siesta Key. We have rented a house for a couple of days in Kissimmee and me and my girls were going to hit Springs for lunch and some walking around before headed to his house in Tampa.

I live north of Atlanta and have been watching all of this craziness unfold so I am completely aware. And I watched last night in Tampa as businesses were looted over in the Fowler Road area...but I wasn't concerned about Springs- especially during the day time. But now he's got me a little worried.

Not looking for political/racial conversation- but just curious if you see it possibly being a target for some of these groups.

Not concerned at all. We'll be down next week and will be making a few DS trips.

 

[pearlieq]

I wouldn't be the slightest bit concerned, especially for next weekend. Disney Springs is specifically designed so that access can be controlled quite quickly and easy.

It makes no sense as a rioting destination. You'd have to drive hundreds of people there. There's really no residential area within walking distance, especially not one someone with something to riot about can afford. They'd have to go through metered access parking lots and garages and through security, all the while carrying in bottles, weapons, and incendiary devices. And do you think rioters would want to be somewhere where they'd have to run to limited exits, ride two escalators, and then wend their way out of a parking garage to get away?

Tell Dad to turn off the news and enjoy your visit!

 

[TLSnell1981]

I won't be shopping anywhere except online for a while. This is insane.

 

[JimMIA]

The vulnerability is not while visiting a shopping area. The vulnerability is while you are in your car.

In the main Miami riot in 1980, almost all of the victims in the first two days (probably 10) were dragged from their cars and killed. They were just passing through areas they drove every day, and had no idea there was any problem in the streets.

Last night on TV, I watched live broadcasts of numerous cars driving slowly through large groups of people. Nobody bothered them last night in Miami.

But tonight could be a different story, and I would urge everyone to just stay home, no matter where you live.

 

[tcufrog]

No but I am concerned about the peaceful protesters who are being teargassed in my city. I never thought I'd see that happen here.

 

[VandVsmama]

No

 

[a1tinkfans]

Stay safe...

 

[JimMIA]

Miami was chill last night.

We had a huge demonstration downtown from 3 PM on, supposed to end before the 8 PM curfew. The entire thing was very well organized and police units were barely visible. It ran a little long, but everything went smoothly until right at the very end.

As the lawful demonstrators were leaving, a couple of criminals broke out a window at the CVS across from American Airlines Arena and were going to loot the store. The lawful demonstrators formed a human wall to prevent that, and the criminals fled before the police arrived a few seconds later.

Police cleared the last few people simply by walking down the street and telling them to leave. As the police were clearing the last of the people from the street, one moron was determined that he wanted be arrested. He remained in the middle of the street taking selfies to prove his intelligence and bravery. Miami PD bicycle units quickly encircled him, the police line moved up, and he was in the prisoner van before he fully realized what was happening. No fuss, no resistance, no use of force -- quick and easy. No biggie.

Coral Gables had a big demonstration at City Hall, which was also attended by about 20 local police chiefs. There were prayers and an extended, very civil Q&A period between the demonstrators and chiefs. No problems at all, and I think both sides benefited from the experience.

Fort Lauderdale had a big Black Lives Matter demonstration, which was held under difficult circumstances. The demonstration was originally permitted and scheduled for the city of Lauderhill, but at the last minute that city revoked the permit. Fort Lauderdale allowed the demonstration to move, but there was virtually no time to plan things. The BLM organizers did a good job under the circumstances and it went pretty smoothly.

However, near the Ft. Lauderdale police station, one officer lost his temper and shoved a woman who was kneeling in the street (she was not injured). He was immediately grabbed and pushed away by other officers, water bottles flew and things got understandably ugly. Tear gas was deployed, the crowd moved away, and everybody calmed down. It took several hours, but streets were eventually cleared peacefully without further incident.

There was no excuse for the police officer's unprofessional outburst. It will be interesting to see what discipline he receives. It would be harsh if I were his supervisor.

 

[pigletliz]

Miami was chill last night.

We had a huge demonstration downtown from 3 PM on, supposed to end before the 8 PM curfew. The entire thing was very well organized and police units were barely visible. It ran a little long, but everything went smoothly until right at the very end.

As the lawful demonstrators were leaving, a couple of criminals broke out a window at the CVS across from American Airlines Arena and were going to loot the store. The lawful demonstrators formed a human wall to prevent that, and the criminals fled before the police arrived a few seconds later.

Police cleared the last few people simply by walking down the street and telling them to leave. As the police were clearing the last of the people from the street, one moron was determined that he wanted be arrested. He remained in the middle of the street taking selfies to prove his intelligence and bravery. Miami PD bicycle units quickly encircled him, the police line moved up, and he was in the prisoner van before he fully realized what was happening. No fuss, no resistance, no use of force -- quick and easy. No biggie.

Coral Gables had a big demonstration at City Hall, which was also attended by about 20 local police chiefs. There were prayers and an extended, very civil Q&A period between the demonstrators and chiefs. No problems at all, and I think both sides benefited from the experience.

Fort Lauderdale had a big Black Lives Matter demonstration, which was held under difficult circumstances. The demonstration was originally permitted and scheduled for the city of Lauderhill, but at the last minute that city revoked the permit. Fort Lauderdale allowed the demonstration to move, but there was virtually no time to plan things. The BLM organizers did a good job under the circumstances and it went pretty smoothly.

However, near the Ft. Lauderdale police station, one officer lost his temper and shoved a woman who was kneeling in the street (she was not injured). He was immediately grabbed and pushed away by other officers, water bottles flew and things got understandably ugly. Tear gas was deployed, the crowd moved away, and everybody calmed down. It took several hours, but streets were eventually cleared peacefully without further incident.

There was no excuse for the police officer's unprofessional outburst. It will be interesting to see what discipline he receives. It would be harsh if I were his supervisor.

That officer was identified and suspended pending further investigation. His fellow officer did a great and immediate job of removing him from the scene.

 

[ronandannette]

Miami was chill last night.

We had a huge demonstration downtown from 3 PM on, supposed to end before the 8 PM curfew. The entire thing was very well organized and police units were barely visible. It ran a little long, but everything went smoothly until right at the very end.

As the lawful demonstrators were leaving, a couple of criminals broke out a window at the CVS across from American Airlines Arena and were going to loot the store. The lawful demonstrators formed a human wall to prevent that, and the criminals fled before the police arrived a few seconds later.

Police cleared the last few people simply by walking down the street and telling them to leave. As the police were clearing the last of the people from the street, one moron was determined that he wanted be arrested. He remained in the middle of the street taking selfies to prove his intelligence and bravery. Miami PD bicycle units quickly encircled him, the police line moved up, and he was in the prisoner van before he fully realized what was happening. No fuss, no resistance, no use of force -- quick and easy. No biggie.

Coral Gables had a big demonstration at City Hall, which was also attended by about 20 local police chiefs. There were prayers and an extended, very civil Q&A period between the demonstrators and chiefs. No problems at all, and I think both sides benefited from the experience.

Fort Lauderdale had a big Black Lives Matter demonstration, which was held under difficult circumstances. The demonstration was originally permitted and scheduled for the city of Lauderhill, but at the last minute that city revoked the permit. Fort Lauderdale allowed the demonstration to move, but there was virtually no time to plan things. The BLM organizers did a good job under the circumstances and it went pretty smoothly.

However, near the Ft. Lauderdale police station, one officer lost his temper and shoved a woman who was kneeling in the street (she was not injured). He was immediately grabbed and pushed away by other officers, water bottles flew and things got understandably ugly. Tear gas was deployed, the crowd moved away, and everybody calmed down. It took several hours, but streets were eventually cleared peacefully without further incident.

There was no excuse for the police officer's unprofessional outburst. It will be interesting to see what discipline he receives. It would be harsh if I were his supervisor.

Very interesting insight - it only took one bad guy, acting out alone to threaten the peace and safety of everyone involved. Thank the Lord cooler heads prevailed but even so - tear gas?!? Presuming these abusive and dangerous cops are the tiny, tiny minority, how do they get weeded out? How can this be prioritized especially in light of the fact that it only takes such a small spark to blow everything up?

 

[JimMIA]

Thank the Lord cooler heads prevailed but even so - tear gas?!?

Yes, tear gas. When people start throwing things, the police deploy tear gas. Nobody likes the visual (or the effects), but it stops the throwing.

What you don't see in these micro-videos that are carefully selected to show the worst moments are two things: a) the setting, and b) what happens afterwards.

The setting here was the parking garage being used by the Ft. Lauderdale police as a staging area, with lots of police vehicles parked there by the officers who were on foot in the area. The previous night, in Miami, someone got access to the Miami PD parking lot and set fire to several vehicles. Ft. Lauderdale rightly was not going to let that happen.

My DD and I were watching live, so I can tell you what happened after the micro-video. The crowd stopped throwing things and fled the immediate area. They went about a block away, and there were no further confrontations. Curfew was approaching, so the police forces were reinforced and they began clearing the streets for the evening. There was a Black Lives Matter organizer on a hoverboard who kept going back and forth between the police commander and the retreating crowd to encourage people to leave. It went fairly smoothly and I don't believe there were any injuries and there were minimal arrests. There was some vandalism and looting in other areas, but not in this area.

(While all this was going on, incidentally, there were restaurants open and people dining and shopping on E. Las Olas Blvd just a couple of blocks away! Until curfew time, presumably...)

Presuming these abusive and dangerous cops are the tiny, tiny minority, how do they get weeded out? How can this be prioritized especially in light of the fact that it only takes such a small spark to blow everything up?

Specific to this incident in Ft. Lauderdale, there are several things in progress. First of all, the officer who shoved the woman has been relieved of duty pending an investigation of his actions. There are two investigations. The Florida Dept of Law Enforcement is investigating any criminal violations. He clearly committed the misdemeanor of Battery by touching the woman without her permission, so it's possible he could face criminal charges. The Ft. Lauderdale Police Dept is also conducting an internal investigation into whether he violated orders, departmental policies, etc. Clearly he did, so he will probably get some discipline within the parameters of their policies, disciplinary procedures, and terms of their union contract. That could result in termination, and could even result in his decertification as a law enforcement officer anywhere in Florida.

Regarding the global problem of weeding out unfit officers, it will never be accomplished by rioting, looting, and other criminal activity. It also is not something that can be fixed with peaceful demonstrations.

Peaceful demonstrations can illuminate the problem and create pressure for change, but the problem has to be solved internally by the department.

There are lots of models around of systems that have been in place for years that actually work. It ain't rocket science.

Rioting (and there is nothing "civil" about rioting...e.g. "civil" disorder) drowns out the worthwhile message and provides excuses for doing nothing. In those places where there has been widespread looting and burning, "the cause" LOST ground, not gained ground. The rioting vastly outweighs anything positive from the peaceful demonstrations.