As a driver do you know the rules for pedestrians in cross walks?

[paisleys]

As a pedestrian I check license plates in certain parts of the city since some new to the city drivers do not know that "right on red" is against the law for all throughways except 2 that I can think of.
Better to be safe than sorry.

Extra cautious at pedestrian crosswalks as well as I've seen too many "I'm in a hurry" drivers.

We vacation in NYC every year and I am glad my kids have learned how to navigate streets there instead of where we live (south Florida). We will walk from one end of the city to the other so they have a lot of experience. It's funny though that we trust crossing Manhattan streets more than here. People respect lights more there than here. Barely anyone even stops for a red light turn here! I had someone honking at me recently for stopping to wait at a red arrow right turn.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Sounds like that intersection needs to have the lights redone so that the left turn light and walk light aren't on at the same time.
Here in California pedestrians have the right of way over turning cars, but I have never seen an intersection here with that kind of conflict between cars and pedestrians.

Thanks, that is what I thought from your description. Now I think about it there are intersections like that in downtown and older areas of the city. I don't think cars are supposed to enter the intersection until all pedestrians have cleared the crosswalk. The minute a pedestrian steps off the curb on one side, until they step up on the curb on the other side, cars can't leave the turn lane pocket.

It's not really uncommon nor such a big issue really.

Intersections all over the place here have that set up that the OP is describing.

For us you can enter the intersection as a vehicle (see my below comment for the state statute). Certain intersections I'm sure have been denoted to not allow that due to variances in the set up and sight lines.

I've also seen this all over the place so I don't think it's unique at all to the OP.

No way your crosswalk has a walk signal and the left turns have solid green arrow. They can have a green ball or yellow flashing arrow which means they have to yield to on coming traffic or pedestrians. A solid green arrow means the cars don't have to yield.

All signals in the United States are operated in accordance with the guidance in the Manual for Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD). What you are describing is in direct violation with Section 4D.05.F.

https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/pdfs/2009r1r2/part4.pdf

Well it sure happens here--

Here's our state statute:
Whenever traffic is controlled by traffic-control signals exhibiting different colored lights, or colored lighted arrows, successively one at a time or in combination, only the colors green, red and yellow shall be used, except for special pedestrian signals carrying a word legend, and said lights shall indicate and apply to drivers of vehicles and pedestrians as follows:

For solid green light:
(a) Green indication. (1) Vehicular traffic facing a circular green signal may proceed straight through or turn right or left, unless a sign at such place prohibits either such turn; but vehicular traffic, including vehicles turning right or left, shall yield the right-of-way to other vehicles and to pedestrians lawfully within the intersection or an adjacent crosswalk at the time such signal is exhibited.

For green arrow signal:
(2) Vehicular traffic facing a green arrow signal, shown alone or in combination with another indication, may enter the intersection cautiously only to make the movement indicated by such arrow, or such other movement as is permitted by other indications shown at the same time. Such vehicular traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection. (3) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian-control signal, as provided in K.S.A. 8-1509, and amendments thereto, pedestrians facing any green signal, except when the sole green signal is a turn arrow, may proceed across the roadway within any marked or unmarked crosswalk.

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For the OP it's really just a simple impatience issue IMO. That being said I'm not sure all drivers in GA necessarily remember the very specific rules of stopping within 1 lane although being anywhere on the driver's side of the road is probably easier to remember and think about.

 

[kdonnel]

A car passed within arms reach this morning. Slowly, but still very much against the law. I am not sure they even noticed the 5 of us in the cross walk. The 5 of us spread apart as we were walking across the street. There were three who walked much faster and then me and a another trailing behind. The two of us had to stop to let the car go or risk being hit. If the leading three slowed at all they would have been hit.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

It's not really uncommon nor such a big issue really.

Intersections all over the place here have that set up that the OP is describing.

For us you can enter the intersection as a vehicle (see my below comment for the state statute). Certain intersections I'm sure have been denoted to not allow that due to variances in the set up and sight lines.

I've also seen this all over the place so I don't think it's unique at all to the OP.


Well it sure happens here--

Here's our state statute:
Whenever traffic is controlled by traffic-control signals exhibiting different colored lights, or colored lighted arrows, successively one at a time or in combination, only the colors green, red and yellow shall be used, except for special pedestrian signals carrying a word legend, and said lights shall indicate and apply to drivers of vehicles and pedestrians as follows:

For solid green light:
(a) Green indication. (1) Vehicular traffic facing a circular green signal may proceed straight through or turn right or left, unless a sign at such place prohibits either such turn; but vehicular traffic, including vehicles turning right or left, shall yield the right-of-way to other vehicles and to pedestrians lawfully within the intersection or an adjacent crosswalk at the time such signal is exhibited.

For green arrow signal:
(2) Vehicular traffic facing a green arrow signal, shown alone or in combination with another indication, may enter the intersection cautiously only to make the movement indicated by such arrow, or such other movement as is permitted by other indications shown at the same time. Such vehicular traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection. (3) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian-control signal, as provided in K.S.A. 8-1509, and amendments thereto, pedestrians facing any green signal, except when the sole green signal is a turn arrow, may proceed across the roadway within any marked or unmarked crosswalk.

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For the OP it's really just a simple impatience issue IMO. That being said I'm not sure all drivers in GA necessarily remember the very specific rules of stopping within 1 lane although being anywhere on the driver's side of the road is probably easier to remember and think about.

Your bolded part under 2 does not suggest a walk signal in the cross walk the left turners will cross will be active at the same time as the green arrow any more than it suggests a green light will be active for oncoming traffic at the same time as that left arrow. What it is referring to is pedestrians and traffic that entered the intersection legally but are still there when the light turns.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Your bolded part under 2 does not suggest a walk signal in the cross walk the left turners will cross will be active at the same time as the green arrow any more than it suggests a green light will be active for oncoming traffic at the same time as that left arrow. What it is referring to is pedestrians and traffic that entered the intersection legally but are still there when the light turns.

It does. The 1,2,3 are under the umbrella of Whenever traffic is controlled by traffic-control signals exhibiting different colored lights, or colored lighted arrows, successively one at a time or in combination, only the colors green, red and yellow shall be used, except for special pedestrian signals carrying a word legend, and said lights shall indicate and apply to drivers of vehicles and pedestrians as follows.

There absolutely are times where you'll have a solid green light where vehicles are turning AND pedestrian walk signals. The rule is you yield to the pedestrian but are still allowed in the intersection. For left turns normally cars go until the pedestrian meets the middle part of the road and that's when cars normally stop movement for turning left. For turning right normally cars wait until the pedestrian meets the middle part (or at least clears their lane) before they begin movement for right turn. When those don't happen is when you have the issue the OP has with impatience.

When they say "Lawfully" they are meaning when the walk signal is lit or the crosswalk is not controlled by traffic signals.

 

[mrodgers]

I can't speak to CHP, but we have done numerous stories on Sac PD stings on cross walks. Pedestrian steps off curb, car enters the cross walk, poof, they get a ticket. Not my station, but here is a story on it with Sacramento Police.

Crosswalk or not, legal or not, your right of way or not, you are insane to just blindly walk out into traffic at speed when there is no pedestrian signal in my opinion. What is the speed limit on that road in the video? It looked to me like 35 mph. Why would you trust traffic and just blindly walk out into a crosswalk expecting people to follow the rules and stop?

There are too many place to cross the road in a city that there isn't enough space between them for the drivers to finish their texts, facebook, or snapchat posts before reaching another crosswalk where there may be pedestrians.

I would never just blindly walk out across the road no matter what the rules are. Sometimes it's wise to just look out for your own safety rather than expect government rulings to do it for you. I'm never walking anywhere because I'm never in town on foot, but I do ride a bicycle and am well aware of rules based on bicycles on the road and I don't follow them because I want to get back home rather than have on my tombstone, "I was in the right so now I'm dead right." Much of the safety talk on the bicycle forums is just that, talk of their rights. Not worth getting killed over just to say you have the right of way.

 

[MillauFr]

There absolutely are times where you'll have a solid green light where vehicles are turning AND pedestrian walk signals.

That is true. You can get a solid green ball while turning left but you have to yield to peds who have a walk signal. I have never seen a left turn movement get a solid green arrow where it conflicts with peds who have a walk signal.

 

[mrodgers]

Some blatant violations there.

Easily could have turned tragic. Are these the same drivers that ignore school buses with red flashing lights and extended stop signs?

Yup.

I've been driving for 2 months shy of 32 years. I ran past my first school bus stopped with red flashing lights on.

Why? Because it's dark when the kids are being picked up, it's a dark 5 lane road (with center turn lane) and ahead of me I noticed a tri-axle dump truck that appeared to be stopped and I moved over to the left wondering what he is doing. I slowed down, was watching the dump truck and never saw a school bus stopped right in front of the middle of a shopping center. We have now flooded our shopping districts with blinding flashing LED lights, I never noticed a bus stopped 4 lanes over in front of all the business LED and regular lighted signs, some of them flashing and changing billboard like signs.

My headlights don't light up a vehicle 4 lanes over to see there is a vehicle there and all the non-traffic light pollution wash out any vehicle lights you would notice. We are lighting up the world at night with all these super bright LED's making things like warning lights ineffective.

I have 1 intersection that has a roadside LED television size business sign that changes very fast and the backgrounds of what it displays is red then blue. As you approach from a distance, the light reflecting all around that intersection you'd think you are coming into a massive crime scene because it looks like you are going to see police cars with their red and blue flashing lights off on the sides. Instead, you get there and it's just a billboard.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

It does. The 1,2,3 are under the umbrella of Whenever traffic is controlled by traffic-control signals exhibiting different colored lights, or colored lighted arrows, successively one at a time or in combination, only the colors green, red and yellow shall be used, except for special pedestrian signals carrying a word legend, and said lights shall indicate and apply to drivers of vehicles and pedestrians as follows.

There absolutely are times where you'll have a solid green light where vehicles are turning AND pedestrian walk signals. The rule is you yield to the pedestrian but are still allowed in the intersection. For left turns normally cars go until the pedestrian meets the middle part of the road and that's when cars normally stop movement for turning left. For turning right normally cars wait until the pedestrian meets the middle part (or at least clears their lane) before they begin movement for right turn. When those don't happen is when you have the issue the OP has with impatience.

When they say "Lawfully" they are meaning when the walk signal is lit or the crosswalk is not controlled by traffic signals.

Please refer to my post again.
I wasn't referring to a solid green light. I was referring, like the passage you bolded, under 2 to the green arrow. There is a big difference between the two.
Here is what I was referring to.
"(2) Vehicular traffic facing a green arrow signal, shown alone or in combination with another indication, may enter the intersection cautiously only to make the movement indicated by such arrow, or such other movement as is permitted by other indications shown at the same time. Such vehicular traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection. (3) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian-control signal, as provided in K.S.A. 8-1509, and amendments thereto, pedestrians facing any green signal, except when the sole green signal is a turn arrow, may proceed across the roadway within any marked or unmarked crosswalk."

The bolded (your bolding) refers to those that entered legally and are still there.

The op also referred to a green arrow, not a green light maybe by mistake.
"I have to cross a 9 lane road each morning and afternoon going to and from work. I always wait for the walk signal and remain in the cross walk while crossing. Today I had someone sit and blow their horn at me because they were making a left, the arrow turns green at the same time the cross walk turns green, and they were miffed I was blocking their way."
MillauFrau's post you quoted was also referring to a green arrow.

Nobody disputes that a solid green light for left turners can be active at the same time as a walk signal for the crosswalk they have to cross. That is what we here call a chicken left, ie, you can turn left unless you're chicken of oncoming traffic or pedestrians or in more standard terms, yield to oncoming traffic and pedestrians. But again what I referred to and what the conversation was about was a green arrow, not a solid green light. The walk sign in the crosswalk that the left turners have to cross will not be active at the same time as a green arrow any more than a green light would be active for oncoming traffic the same time as a green arrow for the left turner. That is how stoplights work in the U.S. That is what Millaufr posted and quoted. And as for malfunctioning, there are systems to prevent it. It is not impossible but highly improbable. Once fire ants got into a cabinet, jammed the relays and multiple directions turned green. But another failsafe has since been added.

 

[tvguy]

Crosswalk or not, legal or not, your right of way or not, you are insane to just blindly walk out into traffic at speed when there is no pedestrian signal in my opinion. What is the speed limit on that road in the video? It looked to me like 35 mph. Why would you trust traffic and just blindly walk out into a crosswalk expecting people to follow the rules and stop?

There are too many place to cross the road in a city that there isn't enough space between them for the drivers to finish their texts, facebook, or snapchat posts before reaching another crosswalk where there may be pedestrians.

I would never just blindly walk out across the road no matter what the rules are. Sometimes it's wise to just look out for your own safety rather than expect government rulings to do it for you. I'm never walking anywhere because I'm never in town on foot, but I do ride a bicycle and am well aware of rules based on bicycles on the road and I don't follow them because I want to get back home rather than have on my tombstone, "I was in the right so now I'm dead right." Much of the safety talk on the bicycle forums is just that, talk of their rights. Not worth getting killed over just to say you have the right of way.

It's downtown so speed limit is 25. I am well aware of the dangers, I walk a mile a day on my lunch break at work. Come close to being hit several times.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Please refer to my post again.
I wasn't referring to a solid green light. I was referring, like the passage you bolded, under 2 to the green arrow. There is a big difference between the two.
Here is what I was referring to.
"(2) Vehicular traffic facing a green arrow signal, shown alone or in combination with another indication, may enter the intersection cautiously only to make the movement indicated by such arrow, or such other movement as is permitted by other indications shown at the same time. Such vehicular traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection. (3) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian-control signal, as provided in K.S.A. 8-1509, and amendments thereto, pedestrians facing any green signal, except when the sole green signal is a turn arrow, may proceed across the roadway within any marked or unmarked crosswalk."

The bolded (your bolding) refers to those that entered legally and are still there.

The op also referred to a green arrow, not a green light maybe by mistake.
"I have to cross a 9 lane road each morning and afternoon going to and from work. I always wait for the walk signal and remain in the cross walk while crossing. Today I had someone sit and blow their horn at me because they were making a left, the arrow turns green at the same time the cross walk turns green, and they were miffed I was blocking their way."
MillauFrau's post you quoted was also referring to a green arrow.

Nobody disputes that a solid green light for left turners can be active at the same time as a walk signal for the crosswalk they have to cross. That is what we here call a chicken left, ie, you can turn left unless you're chicken of oncoming traffic or pedestrians or in more standard terms, yield to oncoming traffic and pedestrians. But again what I referred to and what the conversation was about was a green arrow, not a solid green light. The walk sign in the crosswalk that the left turners have to cross will not be active at the same time as a green arrow any more than a green light would be active for oncoming traffic the same time as a green arrow for the left turner. That is how stoplights work in the U.S. That is what Millaufr posted and quoted. And as for malfunctioning, there are systems to prevent it. It is not impossible but highly improbable. Once fire ants got into a cabinet, jammed the relays and multiple directions turned green. But another failsafe has since been added.

Hmm.. I've could have sworn I've seen the intersections have the green arrow (though flashing yellow is becoming more common) with the walk now signal turned on in the same direction as the vehicle turning. I'll have to pay closer attention when I'm out and about as you've got me thinking again. You're right I did mention solid green when y'all were mentioning green arrow. In either case the section in the document supplied the PP is making reference to has a but statement attached.

"are not in conflict with pedestrians crossing in compliance with a WALKING PERSON (symbolizing WALK) or flashing UPRAISED HAND (symbolizing DONT WALK) signal indication." what always follows is "Vehicles departing in the same direction shall not be considered in conflict if, for each turn lane with moving traffic, there is a separate departing lane, and pavement markings or raised channelization clearly indicate which departure lane to use."

For green arrow specifically as well--"Shall not be required on the stem of a T-intersection or for turns from a one-way street."

Additionally: "No movement that creates an unexpected crossing of pathways of moving vehicles or pedestrians should be allowed during any green or yellow interval, except when all three of the following conditions are met: A. The movement involves only slight conflict, and B. Serious traffic delays are substantially reduced by permitting the conflicting movement, and C. Drivers and pedestrians subjected to the unexpected conflict are effectively warned thereof by a sign"

The document used provides exceptions and allowance depending on how the intersections are set up, what type of intersection is used and the individual characteristics of the intersection.