BLM teaches kids racism

[BuckeyeBama]

Absolutely not. One reason why the push back is so strong is that many folks are afraid that significant change means the tables will turn. While they scream that systemic racism isn't an issue, they wouldn't be willing to deal with it themselves or have their children subjected to it.

The oppressed becomes the oppressor. In Pedagogy of the Oppressed Paulo Freire wrote “The oppressed, instead of striving for liberation, tend themselves to become oppressors.” “Liberation is thus a childbirth, and a painful one.” “The oppressed want at any cost to resemble the oppressors.”

So you are okay with oppression as long as you are the oppressor?

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

I agree with you on the legacy of discrimination, but it's more complicated than that.

I tell people all the time: "If you want to see the 'American Dream' in action, come to Miami and visit Little Haiti."

Here's the situation of Haitians arriving in Miami in the early days (1980-1982):

• They were here illegally.
• They had no money or clothes beyond what they were wearing.
• They had no family here (unlike generations of Cubans)
• They had no job skills. Most of them had never held a "job."
• Most of them had never set foot in either a classroom or a doctor's office.
• Most of them could not read or write their own language -- they were illiterate.
• They did not speak or understand English.
• They did not speak or understand Spanish unless they lived on the border with the Dominican Republic.
• They spoke a language that nobody else in Miami spoke.
• They had never ridden a bicycle, much less driven a car.
• They were simple people -- easy prey for scams, exploitation, and depredation
• And...they were black.

Other than that, the Haitians had the world by the tail!

Come to Miami and see the amazing things they have accomplished -- and you will see what is possible when you have all the laws, and all the circumstances of life, arrayed against you.

Can't ride a bike? Fine. Drive a cab and support your family.

Can't read or write? Go to school.
Then go to college.
Then go to law school, or medical school.
And then move back to Little Haiti to open your practice.

Come to Miami and visit Little Haiti. Akeyi!

Little Haiti has a median household income of 32k, a poverty rate of 38.2%, and crime appears to be above average as well. They're in no way an anomaly to the black experience in the US.

http://www.city-data.com/neighborhood/Little-Haiti-Miami-FL.html

 

[disneyjunkie]

So you are okay with oppression as long as you are the oppressor?

I have never said that. What I have said is that I want things to change. I want there to be equity. I want an equal playing field with a stagnant goal post. I'm not interested in revenge or oppressing anyone.

Unfortunately, there appears to be plenty of people that perfectly fine with the way things currently are simply because they aren't negatively impacted by them.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I have never said that. What I have said is that I want things to change. I want there to be equity. I want an equal playing field with a stagnant goal post. I'm not interested in revenge or oppressing anyone.

Unfortunately, there appears to be plenty of people that perfectly fine with the way things currently are simply because they aren't negatively impacted by them.

Thanks for the clarification. It is a shame that racism is so pervasive in America.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I have been asking this whole time, for someone to show me the laws specifically against black people, the school policies that are written, the company policies that are built into the system to discriminate against black people. Funny, no one can show this systemic racism except to exclaim it.

I highly recommend the book “The Color of Law” by Richard Rothstein!

It offers examples of very specific government policies and easy to follow explanations of how those decisions still affect people even after they are officially off the books.

 

[Starwarsfan2]

I have never said that. What I have said is that I want things to change. I want there to be equity. I want an equal playing field with a stagnant goal post. I'm not interested in revenge or oppressing anyone.

Unfortunately, there appears to be plenty of people that perfectly fine with the way things currently are simply because they aren't negatively impacted by them.

You just did in your previous post.

 

[Dismrk155]

I wonder if it will rain today in Orlando?

 

[TipsyTraveler]

You just did in your previous post.

@disneyjunkie did no such thing. The question to another poster was would they be okay with their family being treated the way black people are treated in this country. Disneyjunkie answered that there’s no way that person would be okay with that, followed by his/her opinion that the reason some white people rail so hard against black equality and justice is because they are afraid black people will become the ones “in charge,” or at least gain enough power to influence the laws and social norms in this country, and they’re afraid white people will become the second class citizens for a change. (My own racist father shared similar sentiments one time when he went on a rant about how we couldn’t let immigrants into the country because “if enough of them come in, they might sway the vote!” In his mind, white people had to always remain the dominant demographic so the country could continue to operate with white interests at the head of the table. Btw, I’ll give you one chance to guess who got cut from my life and never got to meet my children and spread those poisonous ideas to the next generation.)

The second paragraph posted is Disneyjunkie’s “supporting evidence” for the fear of the oppressed-becoming-oppressor scenario, with quotes from a philosopher on the subject. Disneyjunkie did not say black people will rise up and oppress white people; s/he said that’s the fear many white people have.

Absolutely not. One reason why the push back is so strong is that many folks are afraid that significant change means the tables will turn. While they scream that systemic racism isn't an issue, they wouldn't be willing to deal with it themselves or have their children subjected to it.

The oppressed becomes the oppressor. In Pedagogy of the Oppressed Paulo Freire wrote “The oppressed, instead of striving for liberation, tend themselves to become oppressors.” “Liberation is thus a childbirth, and a painful one.” “The oppressed want at any cost to resemble the oppressors.”

 

[disneyjunkie]

@disneyjunkie did no such thing. The question to another poster was would they be okay with their family being treated the way black people are treated in this country. Disneyjunkie answered that there’s no way that person would be okay with that, followed by his/her opinion that the reason some white people rail so hard against black equality and justice is because they are afraid black people will become the ones “in charge,” or at least gain enough power to influence the laws and social norms in this country, and they’re afraid white people will become the second class citizens for a change. (My own racist father shared similar sentiments one time when he went on a rant about how we couldn’t let immigrants into the country because “if enough of them come in, they might sway the vote!” In his mind, white people had to always remain the dominant demographic so the country could continue to operate with white interests at the head of the table. Btw, I’ll give you one chance to guess who got cut from my life and never got to meet my children and spread those poisonous ideas to the next generation.)

The second paragraph posted is Disneyjunkie’s “supporting evidence” for the fear of the oppressed-becoming-oppressor scenario, with quotes from a philosopher on the subject. Disneyjunkie did not say black people will rise up and oppress white people; s/he said that’s the fear many white people have.

Thank you TipsyTraveler. Starwarsfan2 is just trying to bait me. It was entertaining for a while, but now it is just ridiculous.

 

[JimMIA]

Which parts surprised or concerned you? You say you think people would be surprised, but haven't actually said why.

One part that surprised me was the desire to get rid of the traditional family model in favor of a more communal model. I think that idea is very much out of step with much of the Black community. Family has always been one of the cores of Black community life, and they want to do away with much of that tradition.

The other thing that surprised me was the strong emphasis on gender equality. It felt like they were as much interested in that cause as they were in progress for Black people. In fact, they mention gender equality 4-5 times very specifically and don't mention either the criminal justice system or employment equality or economic progress at all.

That is out of step with broad segments of the Black community, especially the very important religious community. I personally prefer to judge each person as the individual they are -- but much of the Black community has very strong opinions on this subject.

Nothing in their "What We Believe" piece "concerns" me, LOL. It's not my place to tell them what to believe! I'm certainly not offended by any of it; in fact, I agree with much of it.

But I do think they are more committed to some very narrow objectives which are not reflective of the majority of the Black community.

 

[JimMIA]

Little Haiti has a median household income of 32k, a poverty rate of 38.2%, and crime appears to be above average as well. They're in no way an anomaly to the black experience in the US.

http://www.city-data.com/neighborhood/Little-Haiti-Miami-FL.html

Come to Miami and go for a ride with me. There is more to life than Google.

 

[lisaviolet]

...risking the balance swinging past equality

What a risk to take. Oh my. Let's just sit still. I mean what would the world be like? How could we ever imagine that? We don't have one concrete example of a balance swinging past equality in the history of the world, besides the atrocious outcome in South Africa you pointed out. I am not sure how any of us humans would live through such an outcome. It is unimaginable to even daydream what such a society would be like, look like, feel like daily if one group of people had more power.

_________

They really should have just gone with "Please can we be equal sir? Madam? Anyone?"

Insert big fat sigh.

I'm not interested in revenge or oppressing anyone.

And onto more interesting conversations -

Please know this pink woman continues to marvel at this place of grace, over time. And doesn't quite know if she would be capable of the same, unfortunately.




And "crazy" people have been speaking out over decades. I shake my head how life moves so quickly with moments of talking and talking and talking - and ignoring.

___________

The article that exquisitely explains it all; helps non-believers understand the absurd, the subtle and everything in between with daily racism -

https://torontolife.com/city/life/skin-im-ive-interrogated-police-50-times-im-black/

 

[TipsyTraveler]

One part that surprised me was the desire to get rid of the traditional family model in favor of a more communal model. I think that idea is very much out of step with much of the Black community. Family has always been one of the cores of Black community life, and they want to do away with much of that tradition.

The other thing that surprised me was the strong emphasis on gender equality. It felt like they were as much interested in that cause as they were in progress for Black people. In fact, they mention gender equality 4-5 times very specifically and don't mention either the criminal justice system or employment equality or economic progress at all.

That is out of step with broad segments of the Black community, especially the very important religious community. I personally prefer to judge each person as the individual they are -- but much of the Black community has very strong opinions on this subject.

Nothing in their "What We Believe" piece "concerns" me, LOL. It's not my place to tell them what to believe! I'm certainly not offended by any of it; in fact, I agree with much of it.

But I do think they are more committed to some very narrow objectives which are not reflective of the majority of the Black community.

Regarding the bolded, this is the second time I’ve seen that mentioned on this thread so I want to comment on it. Is this, below, the part on the BLM site that has people erroneously thinking they want to abolish nuclear families?

“We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.“

People seem to be overlooking the word “requirement.” They aren’t saying the nuclear family structure should be abolished, they are saying it shouldn’t be a societal requirement. They are arguing against the notion that the only right, or best, way for families to exist is one mom, one dad, and 2.3 children living in a house with a white picket fence. They are saying they support families no matter what form they take because, A) raising children with help from extended family and community is a perfectly valid way to do it, B) black people either traditionally came from or currently live in cultures where child-rearing takes a more collective approach, multigenerational households, etc. and, C) because of issues plaguing many black communities such as poverty and incarceration rates, often one or both parents may not be in the picture. BLM is calling for family support within communities, to the extent that a family wants or needs it.

To the rest of your comment, I don’t think their What We Believe page is meant to be their mission statement where they list out the problems of the black community and their goals for fixing them. It’s written as a “this is who we stand for” page that seeks to include just about every type of disenfranchised or discriminated against person possible, and I think they’ve done themselves a disservice by writing it that way. They probably would’ve been better off leaving it as a shorter, simpler to understand message of “We support all black people regardless of gender, faith, etc.

 

[ashley0139]

One part that surprised me was the desire to get rid of the traditional family model in favor of a more communal model. I think that idea is very much out of step with much of the Black community. Family has always been one of the cores of Black community life, and they want to do away with much of that tradition.

The other thing that surprised me was the strong emphasis on gender equality. It felt like they were as much interested in that cause as they were in progress for Black people. In fact, they mention gender equality 4-5 times very specifically and don't mention either the criminal justice system or employment equality or economic progress at all.

That is out of step with broad segments of the Black community, especially the very important religious community. I personally prefer to judge each person as the individual they are -- but much of the Black community has very strong opinions on this subject.

Nothing in their "What We Believe" piece "concerns" me, LOL. It's not my place to tell them what to believe! I'm certainly not offended by any of it; in fact, I agree with much of it.

But I do think they are more committed to some very narrow objectives which are not reflective of the majority of the Black community.

I was honestly curious so thank you for sharing. I am not surprised at all that the group would be for either of those things, especially gender equality, which I do not at all think is a narrow objective. Intersectional activism is vital to these movements. Also being religious does not mean you do not support gender equality, so I’m not sure of your point there.

 

[JimMIA]

Regarding the bolded, this is the second time I’ve seen that mentioned on this thread so I want to comment on it. Is this, below, the part on the BLM site that has people erroneously thinking they want to abolish nuclear families?

“We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.“

People seem to be overlooking the word “requirement.” They aren’t saying the nuclear family structure should be abolished, they are saying it shouldn’t be a societal requirement. They are arguing against the notion that the only right, or best, way for families to exist is one mom, one dad, and 2.3 children living in a house with a white picket fence. They are saying they support families no matter what form they take because, A) raising children with help from extended family and community is a perfectly valid way to do it, B) black people either traditionally came from or currently live in cultures where child-rearing takes a more collective approach, multigenerational households, etc. and, C) because of issues plaguing many black communities such as poverty and incarceration rates, often one or both parents may not be in the picture. BLM is calling for family support within communities, to the extent that a family wants or needs it.

Okay, I see your point.

To the rest of your comment, I don’t think their What We Believe page is meant to be their mission statement where they list out the problems of the black community and their goals for fixing them. It’s written as a “this is who we stand for” page that seeks to include just about every type of disenfranchised or discriminated against person possible, and I think they’ve done themselves a disservice by writing it that way. They probably would’ve been better off leaving it as a shorter, simpler to understand message of “We support all black people regardless of gender, faith, etc.

It's hard to know. To me, it didn't seem accidental that they placed so much emphasis on gender identification. It certainly sounds like it's really a major part of their agenda, and that is a hot topic in many segments of the Black community -- especially the more traditional, religious community.

I agree they did themselves a disservice

 

[TLSnell1981]

I wonder if it will rain today in Orlando?

I'd say yes regarding g Orlando but beautiful weather on the Emerald Coast.

 

[JimMIA]

Also being religious does not mean you do not support gender equality, so I’m not sure of your point there.

No, of course not. Many churches have played major roles in gender equality.

But what I was talking about was the more traditional Black religious community -- most of which is much more conservative, especially on this issue, than many realize.

"Intersectional activism" may be important to some people, but not so much in the Black religious community.

 

[JimMIA]

I'd say yes regarding g Orlando but beautiful weather on the Emerald Coast.

Orlando is nice (but hot) today, but it's gonna rain tomorrow.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Okay, I see your point.

It's hard to know. To me, it didn't seem accidental that they placed so much emphasis on gender identification. It certainly sounds like it's really a major part of their agenda, and that is a hot topic in many segments of the Black community -- especially the more traditional, religious community.

I agree they did themselves a disservice

The reasoning could be as simple as gender identification being an issue that is near-and-dear to one or more people in the higher ranks of BLM, or it could be because trans people are some of the most discriminated against individuals in our society. Perhaps BLM recognizes this and wants to be absolutely clear to everyone, including the more conservative members of the black community, that BLM exists to support all black people. That it’s not good enough to fight for the rights of only some while others get left behind.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Orlando is nice (but hot) today, but it's gonna rain tomorrow.

View attachment 516019

Typical Florida forecast. The weather channel says 90% chance of rain today in Orlando. Although it IS beautiful, sunny and hot in the panhandle.