BLM teaches kids racism

[TipsyTraveler]

What is the difference. I am asking honestly. What is it about the agenda that is bad? I am trying to understand things that I don't have direct experience with. I do see some bad protestors that I think are focused on by the media and sadly it takes away or hurts the message and may make it seem to be worse than it is or maybe not I don't know, I think it is the first. Where I live it feels like black lives do matter, it is very diverse, etc. But not being black, I am not aware of things that go on every day that I do not experience. In schools, etc., everyone is treated the same at least for the most part that I know of unless it is a personal thing but everyone had the same opportunities but I live in a diverse area. That was the way it appeared to me. But I am very open and want to know and understand what I don't experience myself not being black. I hope we all can do that. I do see black people being over targeted from police and think that needs to change and other things like felonies for drugs that hurt future opportunities etc. But I see in jobs by me people of all races working together, my husband's job is very diverse and that's a good thing. People are not paid different bc of color. One thing that I can see as far as politics is things like unions, which there are by me and people I know work in, that help people of all races, maybe as far as politically we can start supporting things like that more also. I would like to see more about what is meant by systemic, other examples, etc.

Do believe criminal justice system needs reform, absolutely. Some of that may be individual racism also, such as individual police and judges who hand out sentences. But needs complete overhaul. Also some mention standardized testing etc being racist? How do we improve test scores or why are they lower should be the focus for me, but if not explain bc I don't see racism in it. Just read old article about Asians suing Harvard a few yrs back, google this, bc Harvard adds points to blacks and Hispanics, blacks getting the highest amount of points, to test scores to help get them into their school, but actually deduct Asians, who excel at tests. Asian men make the most money according to stats, more than white men, and Asian women make more than white women. What can we learrn from that? I also believe in helping women bc women also make less than men, is that systemic? black women being primary bread winners in many black households make the least. Many jobs held by women pay low and shouldn't. Example home health aide. Aides also in nursing homes where my father was was an important and hard job, most there were black women and their pay was not great. They deserve more for that work. But even BLM seems to not want to push or ignores parents staying together, their site says instead having communities support kids, which is good also, but studies show kids from intact families do better, stay in school etc. But felonies or being jailed longer or for minor drug charges doesn't help.

These things may help. https://iwpr.org/wp-content/uploads/wpallimport/files/iwpr-export/publications/Q054.pdf I am a big believer that helping women is important as this shows. This is a complex issue but helping women, who also deal with systemic sexism, as women are the primary bread winners in the black community. Black women earn the least of anyone. This article shows that unions, access to childcare, raising minimum wage and wages of jobs that women hold such as health aides etc. Access to birth control. Staying in school. Putting money into poorer schools, totally support. Encouraging families to stay together, I know this is not politically correct but there are many studies that show this is important. Totally rehauling and studying the criminal justice systemic from top to bottom including legalizing marijuana etc. Selling pot is a felony how do you get a job just as an example. I read that many people that can't afford bail stay in jail for long periods it is crazy and sad. Making sure kids have access to healthy food and water may help with test scores. Changing how the testing is done if this is an actual issue, or finding out how to improve the scores. I watched the show with Jac Efron on Netflix shows how France has healthy water stations everywhere. They do not use chlorine but keep the healthy minerals in the water and how important that is. We all saw what happened in Flint, just inexcusable. Voting for these things. All these things can help.

I want to say that I see your questions going unanswered and I feel bad about that. I’ve wanted to respond but there’s just no way, while chasing after my young kids, that I have the time or ability to give you comprehensive answers to all the questions you’re asking. I do believe you’re sincere in wanting to know more and I give you credit for that. I can also see that you’re on the right track regarding certain issues, but there are some other areas where I think you need to learn a little more to fully “get it.” (Not a criticism!)

Things like, how can a test be biased? The answer comes down to a student’s ability to understand vocabulary, and the vocabulary one is exposed to differs according to one’s geographic region, socioeconomic status, parents’ education level, etc. A white, affluent child from Connecticut is going to have an easier time answering questions that use words like schooner and regatta than a child who’s never heard those words before. Would you have the first clue what a test question was talking about if it referred to “bricks in the trap?” Look at the BLM What We Believe page and tell me if you think those objectives could be easily and quickly understood by most people. They are bogged down in words and phrases like queer-affirming, heteronormative, cisgender privilege, Western-prescribed, trans-antagonistic violence — words that are not part of the everyday lexicon for many people and will cause a good number of people to get tripped up and have to spend time trying to translate instead of immediately understanding what’s being said. The vocabulary used in test questions can give an advantage to one group of students over another.

I think a really good piece of the puzzle for you to read up on would be how historical disadvantage — redlining, denied mortgage policies, inability to accrue and pass down generational wealth — still affects black people today in terms of their communities and opportunities. The New Jim Crow and The Color of Law would be good books for you.

 

[JimMIA]

Things like, how can a test be biased? The answer comes down to a student’s ability to understand vocabulary, and the vocabulary one is exposed to differs according to one’s geographic region, socioeconomic status, parents’ education level, etc. A white, affluent child from Connecticut is going to have an easier time answering questions that use words like schooner and regatta than a child who’s never heard those words before.

There has been quite a bit of work done in this particular area over the years, but many feel it is still an issue. The College Boards (SAT/ACT), for example, have worked extensively for years to un-skew (if there is such a word) the cultural bias of the tests. They also do extensive testing of questions before they are counted for scores, and a major part of that testing is for bias.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about, every SAT and ACT test has a large number of questions which are not scored. I think the volume of those trial questions can be 20%-25% of the questions. Those are questions which are being evaluated to be sure they are fair questions to ask. Once the questions appear to test what they are supposed to test without bias, they are then used and actually scored.

In recent years, and especially this year, many schools have gone to "test optional" admissions, meaning you have the option of submitting your test scores or not. That was designed to eliminate test bias, but it also helps students who simply do not test well for whatever reason.

So people have worked, and continue to work, on the problem of test bias -- but we're probably not there yet.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

The things mentioned in above couple posts I do agree but in education still to me seems it is not done purposefully to hurt or hinder which is what I think of when I hear the word racism. In fact if you read my couple posts back, there was a lawsuit in Harvard from Asians who were excelling in tests even more than whites but points being deducted and needing much more points in test scores than blacks who were given points, also Hispanics, but blacks more. I think at least in the educational system they are trying but like mentioned above, not there yet. I also think more money needs to be directed in black area schools. Much more work needs to be done and protests and BLM brings this to light and is a good thing. Now in the legal system yes sadly that is in dire need of change.

 

[JimMIA]

The things mentioned in above couple posts I do agree but in education still to me seems it is not done purposefully to hurt or hinder which is what I think of when I hear the word racism. In fact if you read my couple posts back, there was a lawsuit in Harvard from Asians who were excelling in tests even more than whites but points being deducted and needing much more points in test scores than blacks who were given points, also Hispanics, but blacks more.

I'm not sure whether points are actually added or subtracted for anyone, and I'm not familiar with Harvard's admissions policies.

But I believe the focus of that lawsuit was not test scores. I think it was an allegation that Harvard had kind of an informal "quota" of Asian students they were going to admit, and that "quota" caused very well-qualified Asian students to be excluded because of their race.

In other words, Asian students with scores which would have admitted a white student were denied admission because they were Asian and only a certain number of Asians were allowed.

Harvard, of course, denies this and they won the first round in court. This seems like a case that will likely make it all the way to the Supreme Court, but it's in the appeals court right now.

 

[JimMIA]

To me, the biggest problem BLM has right now is the violence that has been associated with the "protests" in some cities -- specifically Minneapolis, Seattle, and Portland.

That violence -- which has nothing to do with the ideals that BLM professes to stand for -- is drowning out whatever message BLM is trying to put forward.

The conversation has shifted from the real wrongs that were done in cases like George Floyd and Ahmaud Arbery to the lawless rioting and destruction in a few cities.

Until BLM fixes that -- and I'm not sure they can -- a lot of people will turn a deaf ear to their cause.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

I'm not sure whether points are actually added or subtracted for anyone, and I'm not familiar with Harvard's admissions policies.

But I believe the focus of that lawsuit was not test scores. I think it was an allegation that Harvard had kind of an informal "quota" of Asian students they were going to admit, and that "quota" caused very well-qualified Asian students to be excluded because of their race.

In other words, Asian students with scores which would have admitted a white student were denied admission because they were Asian and only a certain number of Asians were allowed.

Harvard, of course, denies this and they won the first round in court. This seems like a case that will likely make it all the way to the Supreme Court, but it's in the appeals court right now.

Yes I think they felt discriminated against. According to one of their complaints Harvard set bar highest for them, second was for whites and lowest bar set for Hispanics and blacks. They needed to score 140 points higher than whites, 270 more than Hispanics and 450 points higher than blacks on SATs so they said. This shows more on this and their complaints. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Students_for_Fair_Admissions_v._Harvard

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

Deleted

 

[Starwarsfan2]

There has been quite a bit of work done in this particular area over the years, but many feel it is still an issue. The College Boards (SAT/ACT), for example, have worked extensively for years to un-skew (if there is such a word) the cultural bias of the tests. They also do extensive testing of questions before they are counted for scores, and a major part of that testing is for bias.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about, every SAT and ACT test has a large number of questions which are not scored. I think the volume of those trial questions can be 20%-25% of the questions. Those are questions which are being evaluated to be sure they are fair questions to ask. Once the questions appear to test what they are supposed to test without bias, they are then used and actually scored.

In recent years, and especially this year, many schools have gone to "test optional" admissions, meaning you have the option of submitting your test scores or not. That was designed to eliminate test bias, but it also helps students who simply do not test well for whatever reason.

So people have worked, and continue to work, on the problem of test bias -- but we're probably not there yet.

Okay what about math?

 

[JimMIA]

Okay what about math?

I don't understand what you are asking. They trial-test all questions.

 

[cedricandsophie]

Only a small number of protestors have turned it into something destructive. I’m a 70 year old white woman. My husband is a lawyer. He has directly seen how blacks and whites are treated differently within the legal system. Every kid needs to know what racism is, what it means and how it is demonstrated not just against blacks but against all ethnic groups. I see no reason why it should be scary. Kids learn to be racist as kids usually based on actions or beliefs they are taught or see role modeled. I believe all lives matter of course. And that blue lives matter since I have a nephew who is a chicago cop. But unless we are willing to talk about it nothing is going to change.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

To me, the biggest problem BLM has right now is the violence that has been associated with the "protests" in some cities -- specifically Minneapolis, Seattle, and Portland.

That violence -- which has nothing to do with the ideals that BLM professes to stand for -- is drowning out whatever message BLM is trying to put forward.

The conversation has shifted from the real wrongs that were done in cases like George Floyd and Ahmaud Arbery to the lawless rioting and destruction in a few cities.

Until BLM fixes that -- and I'm not sure they can -- a lot of people will turn a deaf ear to their cause.

Anyone who blames BLM protesters or organizers for that is being intentionally obtuse. It is clear that the violence is driven by forces outside the BLM movement, with entirely different agendas.

 

[JimMIA]

Anyone who blames BLM protesters or organizers for that is being intentionally obtuse. It is clear that the violence is driven by forces outside the BLM movement, with entirely different agendas.

I'm not blaming BLM for the violence. I'm saying that the violence is drowning out their message. When things turn violent, people stop listening.

In addition, several local governments -- again specifically Minneapolis, Seattle, and Portland -- have withdrawn their police forces from the affected areas, which has only increased the violence and made BLM's message weaker.

And I would add Atlanta to that list. The mayor of Atlanta withdrew her police and allowed armed "protesters" to block major thoroughfares. The result was that a black family drove up to one of the blockades and their 8 year-old daughter was shot and killed by the "protesters."

Sorry, but killing children just doesn't help your cause.

The problem for BLM is that they have no control over those situations, but their calls to "Defund the Police" cause local governments to withdraw the police. Local governments then don't have the backbone to stop the violence they enabled, and all you hear is stories about more violence.

When was the last time you heard anything about Ahmaud Arbery? When was the last time you heard anything about George Floyd? They have been pushed off the news by violent "protesters."

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I'm not blaming BLM for the violence. I'm saying that the violence is drowning out their message. When things turn violent, people stop listening.

In addition, several local governments -- again specifically Minneapolis, Seattle, and Portland -- have withdrawn their police forces from the affected areas, which has only increased the violence and made BLM's message weaker.

And I would add Atlanta to that list. The mayor of Atlanta withdrew her police and allowed armed "protesters" to block major thoroughfares. The result was that a black family drove up to one of the blockades and their 8 year-old daughter was shot and killed by the "protesters."

Sorry, but killing children just doesn't help your cause.

The problem for BLM is that they have no control over those situations, but their calls to "Defund the Police" cause local governments to withdraw the police. Local governments then don't have the backbone to stop the violence they enabled, and all you hear is stories about more violence.

When was the last time you heard anything about Ahmaud Arbery? When was the last time you heard anything about George Floyd? They have been pushed off the news by violent "protesters."

How is that their fault? How could they stop the crazies from being crazy?

They are doing the right thing and others are trying to distract you, and you are letting them. IMO, only those wanting to be distracted are being distracted. The rest of us see it for what it is.

 

[JimMIA]

How is that their fault? How could they stop the crazies from being crazy?

They are doing the right thing and others are trying to distract you, and you are letting them. IMO, only those wanting to be distracted are being distracted. The rest of us see it for what it is.

You just don't get it -- or don't want to get it.

I NEVER said it's their fault.

I am also NOT distracted. I am the one who is trying to redirect the focus back to the real issues.

But we can't just pretend the violence doesn't matter when innocent 8 year-old girls are being murdered by people who claim to be affiliated with BLM, or "the movement," or whatever they call it.

Where was the outrage over Secoriea Turner's murder? There was none. Why not?

And again...what is the news media talking about?

"If it bleeds, it leads," so the news is talking about shootings in Chicago, and shootings in NYC, riots in Portland, bomb blasts in Beirut, political silliness in Washington...everything but the agenda BLM wants talked about.

The violence distracted the media, and the moment has passed.

 

[LittleMissMagic]

The violence distracted the media, and the moment has passed.

I don't think the moment has passed. Have you been watching the NBA games? All of the players are wearing Black Lives Matter shirts, and the announcers talk about their advocacy for specific causes. That's just one of the many ways that the "moment" is still moving. May not be the headline for all of the papers right now, but it's been covered very well by TNT and ESPN.

 

[Dismrk155]

This is the reason the Nba is banned in our house. Along with cnn and msnbc.

 

[LittleMissMagic]

This is the reason the Nba is banned in our house. Along with cnn and msnbc.

Because you don't believe Black Lives Matter?

 

[Dismrk155]

Oh please. I think it's going to rain.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

This is the reason the Nba is banned in our house. Along with cnn and msnbc.

Yeah, better to shield yourself from anything that might expand your understanding of a subject.

 

[JimMIA]

I don't think the moment has passed. Have you been watching the NBA games? All of the players are wearing Black Lives Matter shirts, and the announcers talk about their advocacy for specific causes. That's just one of the many ways that the "moment" is still moving. May not be the headline for all of the papers right now, but it's been covered very well by TNT and ESPN.

Change is just not that easy.

As long as "advocates" (multi-millionaire athlete/celebrities, LOL) are just posing in free shirts and pulling other symbolic stunts, racism is safe and secure.