Covid And The Rest of Us

[BadPinkTink]

The Irish Government has just announced a 2 week local lockdown in 3 counties in Ireland. This is due to large cluster outbreaks in 3 meat processing plants.

 

[FigmentSpark]

Not everyone feels the same, by a long-shot and being unable to be with family in other parts of the province or country is NOT OK with me.

Agreed. My parents are old enough that they would be at risk if I brought this to them, but young enough that they are still independently in their own home. But managing and not seeing us (mental respite, as well as helping with occasional things) is taking a toll on them.

 

[pahoben]

Just one persons experience but I have traveled internationally the last couple months but for unimpeachable reasons and with frequent negative Covid tests. I have been in several airports and travel included one flight on a plane with capacity of 400 and there were 400 passengers on the plane. I have worn a mask where required by local regulations and otherwise no mask. I had documents with me to satisfy authorities at the borders I crossed that I was (and still am) negative. I saw one international airport offered one hour test results onsite for those without adequate medical documentation. It is possible to allow border crossings while ensuring very low risk of introducing a contagious individual by simply requiring testing for travel. If the individual traveling must pay for an on-site test it limits travel to those that have strong motivation for travel.

 

[MommyinHonduras]

The head of the small business department here in Honduras just released this data yesterday

48%- number of small businesses have closed permanently. (Do not have the capital and means to reopen)

600,000- number of employees that have been let go from their jobs.

67%- unemployment rate throughout the country

6,600,000- the approximate number of people living on $2 or less every day.

It was reported by the head of University in the capital that it would take 5 years for the country to return to pre-COVID levels economically, and that was not a good place either.

(We are still on Red alert since March 15th. Cases are going down to around 500 positives a day. We are under 1,200 in hospital care. We are in phase one of reopening. Which means most businesses can reopen with 33% of their workforce able to work on location, you can can government permission to go to work outside your day to circulate. People can circulate one day every two weeks based on the last number of their ID. Masks are required outside your home. Temperatures are taken before entering any business, as well as bleaching your shoes and sanitizing your hands. Waiting on Sunday afternoon announcement if anything changes, as internal transportation opens Monday. )

 

[anthony2k7]

The UK is a mess right now. But not because of climbing numbers really.

Our government have decided that "local lockdowns" are the solution going forward. The problem with this though is that they seem to be coming up with different rules each time they announce more cities that are locked down. So we literally have several cities lockdown down but some with different rules to others. How anyone is supposed to know what is and isn't allowed for each I have no clue.

On top of the random per city rules, going forward currently it seems there will be no financial support for cities/people when lockdowns are imposed. No furlough money business support money at all it seems.

 

[NFLDERS]

I understand what you're saying Jane, but for curiosity, what benchmarks do you think should be in place before we travel inter-provincially?

The passing of more time to better understand Covid19, we are still learning day by day. The implementation of far better quarantine monitoring, and stiffer enforced fines for those whom break our laws.

 

[bavaria]

The passing of more time to better understand Covid19, we are still learning day by day. The implementation of far better quarantine monitoring, and stiffer enforced fines for those whom break our laws.

And meanwhile millions are at risk of dying from starvation, or other diseases. Closed borders and travel restrictions mean that NGOs and voluntary organizations cannot carry out critical work. For each expat who loses their job, multiple local workers lose theirs. For the world's poor, COVID19 is just one of many life-threatening dangers. Lockdowns do not work in poor countries - witness South Africa as just one example. As the poster from the Honduras points out so well, the economic impact is significant in many areas of the world which are far less privileged than us.

It's easy for us to close ourselves in, and not consider how our actions impact others, but the reality is that the impact of the decisions made by privileged countries has created a second, perhaps even more deadly crisis in the world. There are no easy answers, but there has to be solutions which consider the impact to others.

 

[mom2rtk]

And meanwhile millions are at risk of dying from starvation, or other diseases. Closed borders and travel restrictions mean that NGOs and voluntary organizations cannot carry out critical work. For each expat who loses their job, multiple local workers lose theirs. For the world's poor, COVID19 is just one of many life-threatening dangers. Lockdowns do not work in poor countries - witness South Africa as just one example. As the poster from the Honduras points out so well, the economic impact is significant in many areas of the world which are far less privileged than us.

It's easy for us to close ourselves in, and not consider how our actions impact others, but the reality is that the impact of the decisions made by privileged countries has created a second, perhaps even more deadly crisis in the world. There are no easy answers, but there has to be solutions which consider the impact to others.

Yes yes yes. Unfortunately anytime anyone tries to discuss this rationally they have been told to shut up and just watch more Netflix.

 

[quandrea]

Not everyone feels the same, by a long-shot and being unable to be with family in other parts of the province or country is NOT OK with me.

I don’t mind the not seeing people or not going out to stores, etc, I hate not being able to safely get on a plane and travel. I could go forever with just seeing my husband and kids, but not travelling really bites.

Edited to add: I fully realise how pouty that sounds. There are bigger issues for sure in this pandemic. Having a little pity party, I suppose. I’m done now.

 

[bavaria]

Yes yes yes. Unfortunately anytime anyone tries to discuss this rationally they have been told to shut up and just watch more Netflix.

And this is just the start. I've read enough posts here to know that many people feel that they are immune, as they are not Americans (or Indians, or Brazilians, etc)

The job losses are just starting. Now already we are seeing people in high positions in finance, legal, etc losing jobs because of the world wide restrictions. As industries related to travel move from short term layoffs to permanent job cuts, 'white collar' workers lose their jobs. That has a huge impact down the chain as they cannot spend more. The 'new' jobs coming into the economy tend to be low pay, customer facing, higher risk jobs, and the competition will be fierce from those who wish to apply.

And the retired who think they are safe are being short sighted. Governments cannot continue to hand out subsidies for a long term ie years, without cutting other areas such as pensions. Then they will look to reduce spending for foreign aid, which means even more poverty and starvation.

The solution is not continued shut downs. (But I think local restrictions are ok to curb outbreaks, in the short term, but not on the Melbourne scale) Each German airport now has a 'rapid testing' station for arrivals from 'high risk' areas. Book a time in advance, go to the test site and get a throat swab, wait a short time for a result. Negative means proceed, positive means quarantine. (The Lufthansa instagram page has a good video on this)

Keeping borders closed is having a greater impact on people than is being considered. We need to find an 'acceptable' level of cases/deaths. Is 1,000/cases a day ok with 3-9 deaths/day of seniors, in a population of 85 million? So long as testing, tracing, hospital beds, etc are in place, I am more than fine with this.

The last few weeks have shown that the plan to eradicate this without a vaccine is impossible. Easing restrictions in a sensible way will help, but for millions it is too late. Perhaps because I have seen and lived with the level of poverty, like the poster in Honduras, I am more conscious of it, but we need to remember that we are part of a global economy, and our actions are killing people every day.

 

[bavaria]

Yes yes yes. Unfortunately anytime anyone tries to discuss this rationally they have been told to shut up and just watch more Netflix.

I'll try and address this in a general way, without going specifically into politics if possible.

I know that the 'no politics' rule here makes it difficult to discuss, but there was also a tone of 'good/bad', 'winners/losers' here which makes it difficult to have any significant discussion. I have said many times that there are no 'winners', just many, many losers.

The argument of 'America=bad, Australia/NZ/Vietnam=good' is also far too simplistic. Look at the situation in Melbourne, mostly which was started by untrained workers having sex with quarantined people in a hotel. Does that make Australia now move into the 'bad' category? Are the no longer 'winners'? That is a simplistic discussion on an elementary school level.

In order to find solutions, difficult discussions need to be had amongst populations. When leaders of 'closed' countries move to open borders, they need the support of their populations. And that requires the difficult discussions now, in order to prepare for the time when borders will be opened.

 

[penn19]

And this is just the start. I've read enough posts here to know that many people feel that they are immune, as they are not Americans (or Indians, or Brazilians, etc)

The job losses are just starting. Now already we are seeing people in high positions in finance, legal, etc losing jobs because of the world wide restrictions. As industries related to travel move from short term layoffs to permanent job cuts, 'white collar' workers lose their jobs. That has a huge impact down the chain as they cannot spend more. The 'new' jobs coming into the economy tend to be low pay, customer facing, higher risk jobs, and the competition will be fierce from those who wish to apply.

And the retired who think they are safe are being short sighted. Governments cannot continue to hand out subsidies for a long term ie years, without cutting other areas such as pensions. Then they will look to reduce spending for foreign aid, which means even more poverty and starvation.

The solution is not continued shut downs. (But I think local restrictions are ok to curb outbreaks, in the short term, but not on the Melbourne scale) Each German airport now has a 'rapid testing' station for arrivals from 'high risk' areas. Book a time in advance, go to the test site and get a throat swab, wait a short time for a result. Negative means proceed, positive means quarantine. (The Lufthansa instagram page has a good video on this)

Keeping borders closed is having a greater impact on people than is being considered. We need to find an 'acceptable' level of cases/deaths. Is 1,000/cases a day ok with 3-9 deaths/day of seniors, in a population of 85 million? So long as testing, tracing, hospital beds, etc are in place, I am more than fine with this.

The last few weeks have shown that the plan to eradicate this without a vaccine is impossible. Easing restrictions in a sensible way will help, but for millions it is too late. Perhaps because I have seen and lived with the level of poverty, like the poster in Honduras, I am more conscious of it, but we need to remember that we are part of a global economy, and our actions are killing people every day.

You are the voice of reason!

 

[NFLDERS]

And meanwhile millions are at risk of dying from starvation, or other diseases. Closed borders and travel restrictions mean that NGOs and voluntary organizations cannot carry out critical work. For each expat who loses their job, multiple local workers lose theirs. For the world's poor, COVID19 is just one of many life-threatening dangers. Lockdowns do not work in poor countries - witness South Africa as just one example. As the poster from the Honduras points out so well, the economic impact is significant in many areas of the world which are far less privileged than us.

It's easy for us to close ourselves in, and not consider how our actions impact others, but the reality is that the impact of the decisions made by privileged countries has created a second, perhaps even more deadly crisis in the world. There are no easy answers, but there has to be solutions which consider the impact to others.

My post was regarding Canadians traveling within Canada, and better monitoring of non quarantine Snowbirds returning to Canada.

 

[bavaria]

Another Aussie here. I'm also in Victoria although the Mornington Peninsula. We are considered Metro and on stage 4 lockdown with the rest of the Metro areas. We have minimal cases here though. Then Peninsula have only had 90 cases in total and currently have 17 active cases. Its odd how it works. Greater Geelong (the other side of the city) currently have 106 active cases but are only on stage 3 lockdown.

Ouch, that definitely is challenging... I'm always surprised by how 'long' Melbourne seems from one end to the other. I understand that Geelong is not part of the metro area, but definitely challenging that you are lumped into that with low cases, considering that you are just about as far east as they are west. (and for Sorrento, yikes!)

I believe that your government has added 10 additional mental health sessions due to COVID, which I think is great. At least they are addressing the mental health impacts of the renewed lockdown, and hopefully people can access what they need.

Are you at least able to consider coffee an essential service? I cannot imagine if you are being denied that in Melbourne!

 

[Jrb1979]

I'll try and address this in a general way, without going specifically into politics if possible.

I know that the 'no politics' rule here makes it difficult to discuss, but there was also a tone of 'good/bad', 'winners/losers' here which makes it difficult to have any significant discussion. I have said many times that there are no 'winners', just many, many losers.

The argument of 'America=bad, Australia/NZ/Vietnam=good' is also far too simplistic. Look at the situation in Melbourne, mostly which was started by untrained workers having sex with quarantined people in a hotel. Does that make Australia now move into the 'bad' category? Are the no longer 'winners'? That is a simplistic discussion on an elementary school level.

In order to find solutions, difficult discussions need to be had amongst populations. When leaders of 'closed' countries move to open borders, they need the support of their populations. And that requires the difficult discussions now, in order to prepare for the time when borders will be opened.

I know eventually the Canada/US border has to open again. What most people are worried about here is that we have done well to get our cases really low. People are worried that if the border opens again that our cases will rise and we will have to start all over again. I personally would be ok with reopening the border as long as better screening is in place for people coming into Canada.

 

[Weedy]

For those of you from Canada

 

[anthony2k7]

I know eventually the Canada/US border has to open again. What most people are worried about here is that we have done well to get our cases really low. People are worried that if the border opens again that our cases will rise and we will have to start all over again. I personally would be ok with reopening the border as long as better screening is in place for people coming into Canada.

But does it have to open though, really?

What if the vaccines do not work, and that immunity only lasts a few months.

What if this really is a "new normal" from now on?

 

[NFLDERS]

For those of you from Canada

Thanks for this op. This city is just 40 minutes from my area. It is near Toronto, Ontario.

FINE BROWN THE $100,000. and his friends accordingly!

 

[mommasita]

Thanks for this op. This city is just 40 minutes from my area. It is near Toronto, Ontario.

Wow. i Hope that gets a lot of coverage. I’m surprised at a few things aside from this Mayor, all our sports are open. ( not sure if that is good or bad), I know my nephew is playing softball and football, but there is a lot of new rules. Aside from the bizarre NHL season, it’s not really hockey season, but he is skating on the weekends.

 

[ronandannette]

But does it have to open though, really?

What if the vaccines do not work, and that immunity only lasts a few months.

What if this really is a "new normal" from now on?

Unacceptable. We do need to be able to travel, among other things, and if this is the case, we're going to need to re-wind our attitudes back to early April. In those days we were discussing the idea that at some point practically everyone will contract Covid and approximately 1% of cases will be fatal. This perhaps should become the "new normal" because the gradual shift to an expectation of eradicating cases entirely is simply impossible and unrealistic.

Canada has an economic disaster to face - 4 million lost jobs and entire industries in a depression that may take 10 years to resolve. Our foreign relations are in shambles; we are beleaguered and victimized by the two most powerful governments on the planet. Emerging social distresses of unfathomable proportions (addictions, domestic abuse and mental health) threaten to damage our culture for generations. It's high time Covid take a backseat to other issues and we get on with trying to put our lives back in order.