Decided NOT to buy DVC

[baileybrad]

I think that the most important thing about planning future vacations is having options. Nothing is certain in life. It can be in writing but many things "in writing" go belly-up all the time.

Senorak is and should rightly be evaluating many options for planning her family's future vacations and since the subject is Disney....future Disney vacations. Just because the numbers don't add up in her case doesn't make the DVC a bad option. It just doesn't, in her opinion and the many others who evaluate/decline becoming DVC members, "work" for them. There is really no wrong or right answer. It is an avenue for folks to consider. The majority of us who are DVC members are fairly happy with our decisions to explore this particular vacation option. Is it perfect? No, but that doesn't really matter as long as we are happy with our choice.

I am still looking for the timeshare operation that has been running for 30 to 40 years and is in the same league with the DVC. For those of you think that they have found it, only time will tell. The timeshare road is one bloody highway with many casualties.

 

[dianeschlicht]

After reading all this, I think an "amen" needs to be added after Bailybrad. That is the crux of the whole matter.

 

[sgtpet]

Here's to you TownCrier for being an objective owner. As somebody that is a formal perspective buyer I can appreciate your not so Disney is always right and does things in my interest.

Dean, you miss the point. It is not that I would have wanted to never go to DVC. But that the opportunity of flexibility has been diminished and I fear will be further diminished in the future. I never stated another timeshare, I certainly wouldn't.


I think we all want to trust Disney as being good to us, because of the joy the company gives to us as children and continues into our adulthood. But what alot of posters miss is that Disney is a corporation trying to make a profit. There concern is not the consumer satisfaction unless it is what helps make a profit for them.

I also fear that they will further limit the interchanging between DVC resorts.

I am saddened that things are more skeptical today for the DVC plan. Nobody is a fool for being in it. I wish I had signed up 6 years ago when it was better than today.


Enjoy

 

[akghutton]

I understand that DVC is not for everyone, but after reading these posts I just wanted to add a few important reasons that we bought into DVC.

The short term savings was definitely not a selling point. As senorak stated, we could currently stay for less in a lesser resort. However, if you look at the way the resorts' prices are going up each year, the long term savings can't be beat. We figure that in even 10 years, when the prices to stay at a 2-bedroom villa in any of the DVC resorts has gone way up for those paying cash, we will be still staying for a point rate similiar to today.

Another thing that sold us was when we looked at the fact that we had spent close to $9,000.00 on 3 WDW vacations over 4 years, for 2 adults, to stay at Dixie Landings in a standard room. That $9,000.00 could have paid for all our DVC membership minus approximately $500.00!! Add children into the equation and that is one expensive vacation when paying cash for similiar accomodations. We also take advantage of the fact that if we bring along friends or family, hey, we're paying for the accomodations, they can pick up our airfare and/or tickets. We joined on our 3rd trip, better late than never I guess.

Lastly, I too am a teacher, and thus am locked into the school vacation schedule. We get around the peak season rates by going the last few weeks in August. August 15th puts you into value season at the DVC resorts(at least according to the 2002 point chart) and we love the fact that not only are the points less but so are the crowds, for most southern schools are back in session. These are just a few of the reasons we chose to go with DVC.

What it comes down to is what is going to work best for you and you family. If you are always wondering whether or not you have made the right decision, you are never going to enjoy your vacations. Sorry this is so long, as an English teacher, I tend to get long winded at times. Best of luck to everyone.

 

[JonHM]

Very good post. You make a lot of good points. One thing, though: do not mistake my position as a 'Disney can do no wrong' position. I don't know who you were speaking of there. I just want to make sure that these rumors are true before getting upset about them. It already looks like the increases are not nearly as bad as we were all worried they would be after the initial posts. But we should find out for sure some time next week.

You make a very, very good point that Disney is a corporation that *is* more concerned with its profits than with our being happy as their customers. BUT, 2 points: 1) Even though they ARE more concerned with their profits than they are with us, they are MUCH MORE concerned with making their customers happy than 99% of the rest of American corporations today. In a lot of the rest of society, customer service has gone completely by the wayside. So, *relatively speaking*, I am still happy that Disney maintains the very high quality of customer service that they do, both for DVC members and for anyone else visiting Disney World. 2) I, for one, am glad that Disney IS as concerned with profit as they are, given the customer service driven nature of their business. OF COURSE, I don't want them to lose sight of their customers, and I DO love the way that I'm treated when I visit WDW, but I *DO* want them to still be in business 40 years from now, and too many well established companies have either gone under or been bought out because of not enough concern for the bottom line. They just need to find the appropriate balance between profit and customer service, and I think they actually do quite a good job at that most of the time.

I AM very curious to see those point charts when they come out...

 

[sgtpet]

JohnHm, my reference was not towards you. I respect your points as well. Let me further continue and state that Disney is the King of Customer Service for a long time. It is almost a dilemna for Disney because that is the consumer's expectation of them. Look at the posts, if anything negative appears to be happening, people become distraught at the thought that Disney is letting them down.

It is Disney's greatness and yet its downfall when it is not achieved.

 

[dbkelly]

I value Senorak's judgement, but I see things a lot more analytically. As an accountant, I tend to put a monetary value on everything and the rate of return on a DVC membership is better then what I have seen in the hay days of the stock market!

 

[sgtpet]

dbkelly you are right on that. the best disney investment is the vacation club certainly not its stock. I have just commented that the value to a new purchaser is not as great due to less years higher dollar amount per point, etc.


DVC should still be a good investment for the next decade or so.

 

[TheWho]

My wife is a teacher and we have two little kids. I brought last year and have enough points to stay in a one bedroom for a week at BW (a place we have fallen in love with) for a week every summer. I financed for ten years and I pay $190 a month (includes dues) for ten years. That's about $2,400 a year for UTOPIA WDW lodging. That's pretty good. And of course the interest is tax deductible. (I expect dues will only move slightly).
And of course after ten years, I will only worry about dues.

The cost of DVC and diminishing services was never the sticky point for me. It was, do we deserve a WDW vacation every year ?(or every other). I figured, what the hell, my wife and I bust our backs all year and the thought of visiting BW every summer w/ the kids was something we deserved.

good luck with your decisions

 

[Lisa P.]

senorak, you are so wise to fully investigate your options and determine what's right for your own family, ahead of time. It's very hard to see DVC firsthand (so nice!) and decide that the finances of it don't fit your family's needs. We bought in for our family of 5 and ended up selling it during an economic crunch. For some reason, this family size (who like to travel in Magic Season & include weekends) is squeezed by this program.

Anyway, in your situation, having personally struggled with the same figures and options, I came to the very same conclusions that you did and agree completely with your decision. It's a tough decision. Choosing to go with offsite timeshare exchanges turned out to be the best thing for us though. You won't see others who agree much here, due to this being a DVC forum. But... see you on TUG!

Posted by Joe T.: Our first TS purchase... internal restrictions and costs that cost us a few hundred each year. Restrictions such as a limited time frame for less than full week reservations, costs for extra cleaning due to multi mini vacations.

If you are referring to Fairfield, Joe T., VIP status reduces or eliminates some of those problems (300,000 points or more). We hope to get there if I can find more resale points cheaply enough.

Annual fees at DVC and MVCI are comparable.

Perhaps, if you can travel in mid- or lower seasons, they are. But not if you are comparing peak school breaks, summers & major holidays, when families with 3 or 4 children in school, who need a 2-BR, would travel. For that particular situation, MVCI is often much lower.

MVCI Sunset Pt, Grande Ocean or Barony Beach HHI: $577-$700
DVC HHI: ~$900-$1,000

MVCI Grande Vista or Cypress Harbour: $600-$650
DVC OKW, VWL or BWV: ~$900-$1,850

MVCI BeachPlace, FL: $800
DVC Vero Beach: ~$1,160-$1,780

MVCI Heritage Club on HHI is $900 but it includes FREE daily golf! So does Manor Club in Wmsbg with maint fees of just $550. Kauai is $950 and Maui is likely similar but DVC doesn't even offer those destinations for internal trading. Again, if you are traveling in midseason or lower season, or don't need a 2-BR, DVC's maint fees may be comparable or even lower than MVCI. But for families in certain situations, it's not.

DVC has to pay a premium for their expensive transportation system and taxes, plus some portion of the hotel services offered at their shared resorts, plus the "free" organized activities (a la carte fee in other resorts), plus extra housekeeping and reservation services required for all the short stays. It is understandable that they have higher fees. If someone wants all that added to their vacation, it's worth it and more convenient to just buy in. If someone doesn't really care about it, paying for it as part of the member body that does, doesn't make much sense.

I agree with baileybrad, there are no right or wrong choices. It's best to look at them all and choose so that we can be happy with our own choices.

 

[Joe T.]

Yes Lisa, I was referring to Fairfield. Fairfield Williamsburg was our first TS purchase in 1993. We looked into upgrading to the 300,000 point level, but the cost was outrageous. We told the Fairfield rep that if we could sell our existing 192,000 points for at least our cost, we would purchase the 300,000 points. The best offer he could come up was about 60% less costs. We decided to keep the Williamsburg TS, continue to use it for long weekends, and bite the bullet on the extra cleaning cost. My DW is a teacher as are many of you. Our major vacation time is summer, so the long weekends are important for her mental health. Five days is not a long time at WDW. It goes without saying that one cannot see and do everything in that time. It is easier for us because we have no young children. Typically we have family renunions every 2 or 3 years, and the grandkids have developed the habit of listing their main objectives. Usually we do not get to all of their goals, but they accept the "next time" reasoning. On the off family years, we usually have relatives or friends to enjoy the adult recreations and food. This year, we had a two-family reunion, using two OKW Grand Villas and one studio. I can't start to put a monetary value on that 5-day trip. Most of our family came from MN - one drove and the other flew.

 

[chainkid]

While I love my DVC it is definitely not cheap. At this point in my life I could easily afford it. When my son was younger I would have been priced out of DVC so I understand. If you have the money its the best deal around for staying at a deluxe part of Disney World. So you made the correct decision. Joan

 

[PKS44]

The teacher talks about getting " a 7-10 day stay in a DVC villa---so now we're talking 2 years of maintenance fees for one trip---that's more than I'm paying for this year's trip to stay at the Poly."

Umm-2 years of maintainance fees for going every other year would be about $1100-$1300 for the number of points you are talking about...If 5 of you can stay at the Poly for 7 days in the average summer and rent the refrigerator and do without the washer/dryer microwave etc for $1100 - you ought to start your own website on how to save $$ at Disney...you can't--it can't be done...

DVC is a great value...

Paul

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by sgtpet
Dean, you miss the point. It is not that I would have wanted to never go to DVC. But that the opportunity of flexibility has been diminished and I fear will be further diminished in the future. I never stated another timeshare, I certainly wouldn't.

I didn't miss the point, I just never saw this option as truly giving any flexibility. It is an option with little or no value, IMO, to start with and any changes that decrease the value will not change my opinion. But everyone must make their own decisions. Now if they want to cut the points in half, we might be able to discuss it; and that's they type of change it would take to get me to think about it in all but extreme circumstances.

 

[Lisa P.]

Posted by PKS44: a 7-10 day stay in a DVC villa... would be about $1100-$1300 for the number of points you are talking about...

If they bought at VWL or BWV and stayed in a 2-BR at their home resort for 9 nights (two weekends) in July, it would cost 500 points - ~$2,000 in maintenance fees per trip. That doesn't include their 24 monthly loan payments to cover the 250 point annual purchase of ~$18,750. Take just 10% of the purchase price into account (5% per year or $1,875 per 2 years) and the trips' lodging costs would be more like $3,875 for those 9 nights.

While the 2-BR is wonderful and this price ($430/nt) may not seem bad, it is more than a July stay at the Poly. And after plunking down all that hard-earned cash, there are more restrictions on how to use points than on how to use cash.

 

[sgtpet]

I am tired of defending my point. The Disney Cruise is shown in the front of every sales/marketing item. Including the front page of the official DVC website. DVC attempts to make it a value. Obviously Dean it was never great, but now it is almost a useless benefit.

 

[PKS44]

Lisa P-
I see your math but it only accounts for the first 10 years, not the other 31...Also the original post said that 2 years' of maintenance was the same amount of money as she spent on the Poly for 5 people in a Poly room? I don't know but if they get two rooms at the Poly then that is more than even the first 10 years of your calculation and way more than just maintenance fees for 2 years...Of course cash is more flexible and I personally would never finance a vacation plan..it is luxury money- money left over after you take care of everything else as far as i am concerned...

Paul

 

[dbkelly]

I purchased a resale at OKW of 230 points and paid $65 per point. However, the final cost of the points was about $52 per point, because I had a lot of banked points that I rented. If I went on vacation during the summer and used a 2 bedroom at OKW for 9 days I would need 446 points. The cost per point over the 40 years is $1.30 per points ($52/40 years). My maintenance cost is $3.13 per point for a total cost of $4.03 per point. My total cost for the trip would be $1,797 (4.03x446pts) I believe you probably would spend approximately $3,000 for 9 nights at the Polynesion during the summer. I have now paid $1203 less for the same vacation. We are also not comparing apples with apples. OKW is a 2 bedroom villa and not a 300 and something square foot room. If I choose to stay in a studio at OKW for nine days it would only be 147 points for a total cost of $651. Now lets compare the $651 with $3,000. I have a family of five and we stayed in a hotel room this past spring and I almost lost my mind. The reason why we invested into DVC was not only because the tremendous value but because we could not bring ourselves to ever stay in one hotel room with the five of us, especially for 9 days! I know you feel that you are being picked on, but that is because we just can't understand your reasoning. Did you look into a resale which would cost you a lot less then $75 per point?

 

[WebmasterDoc]

On the Disney Cruise Line....

....DVC attempts to make it a value. Obviously Dean it was never great, but now it is almost a useless benefit.

DVC does not and never has promoted these non-DVC programs as a "value". It is promoted as one of the options of the program, but makes no suggestion that it is discounted in any way. It is up to us, as individual members, to decide the "value" to us of these options.

If you were considering DVC solely on the basis of these features instead of the stength of the DVC resorts, you were probably wise to reconsider and opt not to join. The options are just that- they are not the reason to buy- just an optional feature of the greater program.

Enjoy!

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by sgtpet
Obviously Dean it was never great, but now it is almost a useless benefit.

From my standpoint it was always an almost useless benefit as is the DC and CC. The only exceptions I can think of is to give you a chance to use points you would otherwise lose and couldn't rent out.