"Disney, what has to happen for you to decide that MDE does not work?"

[gwynne]

So should I worry that only my ticket and not my wife's is showing up?

I called when we had missing tickets. They were able to fix the issue while I was on the phone.
The correct # of tickets continue to be visible to me in MDE since the fix.

 

[AngiTN]

This line of reasoning seems slightly flawed to me. Disney has a monopoly on a trip to Disney, but not theme parks, Florida, travel or vacations. There are lots of people that don't go to Disney even though their kids want to because they don't like the crowds, the heat, the planning involved, rides or big corporations. People not going because the planning bothers them because the IT is garbage certainly exist, I regularly encounter people who said the app worked poorly when they went and why do they fight with that on vacation when they could go elsewhere? Which they do. People absolutely stop going because of poor MDE, I just elected not to renew my annual pass because I'm fed up with the way things are going, including both price and MDE. You can't say the people who get priced out would never have gone, you can't say that people won't stop going because of MDE.

Our next trip is for a wedding in which I am a part, after that we won't be returning for some time, hopefully they get it together before then because I will miss it, but I just had another harried morning of fighting with my phone at 7am and getting stressed about an expensive vacation. For half the price (literally half, this isn't hyperbole) I can (and will) take a luxury cruise for the same amount of time, with lots of exciting activities and no fighting with poor software and $18 lunches.

The point is completely valid that if you're going to Disney and giving them your money you're implicitly telling them their software is acceptable. As long as enough people are doing such a thing and it remains profitable, they will not change. They will change when it becomes more profitable to do so.

On a side note, I've never met an accomplished person who had the means to take higher end vacations that spent that money because of the whim of their child. I believe they exist but I don't believe they make up the majority of the guests visiting year to year.

Matt

Disney is not any theme park. You must not talk to many people with kids. When they are taking their families to a Disney vacation just any other theme park in FL won't replace Disney.

 

[AngiTN]

There are so many people who "just go to Disney World". They have no idea about MDE except they use this band to access their tickets, their rooms, their ADRs. They decide to go, and they get a travel adviser to plan it for them. They tell them what they want, and they get it. I have a friend currently planning a trip for 6 in 2019, and their travel adviser told them to let them know what they wanted, and they would set it up for them They have no idea about 180 days out, or 60 days out, or any stress related to it. Others decide to go and they just show up (this is how I have enjoyed many a trip). As been noted time and again, the most meticulous and stress filled planned trip does not make it successful, mostly due to high expectations, because we planned so hard. Coming from a preference to just wing it, some of my trip is hard core planned, some is wing it, and hope the information I have gathered will help me accomplish my goals. My biggest concern is not getting the perfect ADR or the best fast passes, but having fun despite the crowds. Everything I have reserved is on paper, with confirmation numbers to back it up. I also highly suspect that those canceled ADRs that have shown up are not really there and will not count against you, but I have cancellation confirmations just in case.
Does that help with this MDE mess? No. But the point is, there are so many people who will go who are blissfully unaware of what is going on with their MDE right now that it won't make any difference as to whether they will go or not. I get lectures all the time from people who boycott Disney because of their political or religious views. I just look at it as their loss. I know Disney has created this monster (the hard core planning), but you can still have a good time just showing up.

We are traveling with these types next month. They are very close friends of ours. We've booked a 2 bedroom villa together. It's going to be interesting, to have to such polar opposite styles. They go often too and love the way they tour even being totally free and loose and without any plan.
Us, AP holders, not quite hardcore planners but FP set up for each day, but still really flexible in our plans in that I'll decide on a whim to change our FP that morning.
Them, no tickets at all yet, not even sure how many days yet. They are there for 5 days but they are probably getting 2 days tickets. They won't buy them until they get there. Then they'll set up some FP. They are happy with whatever FP they find. It doesn't matter how many times I tell them about the FP or how to book early. Heck, they know Disney extremely well, used to live in FL but they don't know this side of Disney. They tour and do it differently. And love it that way. Wouldn't change it at all.

 

[lambdabeta]

I think that people get lost in threads like this. They don't read all of the posts because it is 6 pages and they don't understand the context of what someone is talking about. They just respond to the post in front of them. Then people start repeating the same thing over and over again until finally either a moderator closes it or it just dies.

Here is what I think. Disney is aware of the problem. They don't care because they are still raking in record profits, it would cost too much and it works most of the time. I don't believe they are building a new system or making changes to how the current one is managed. The system is outsourced and Disney has very little control over how it is written or patched together. The company may have tried to fix the problem but as mentioned by people more knowledgeable than I, it is a patch and MDE will continue to have problems. Customer service is reporting the complaints. The higher ups don't care because fielding complaints is the job of the customer service reps and because of what I said above. The only way it will get fixed is if the profits are down, other discounts aren't working to bring people in and they need every enticement they can get. This may be a major problem for a lot of people especially when the whole system goes down but it isn't affecting their profits enough to make them want to fix it. So don't hold your breathe waiting for MDE to get better.

 

[lambdabeta]

Disney is not any theme park. You must not talk to many people with kids. When they are taking their families to a Disney vacation just any other theme park in FL won't replace Disney.

I really think you totally missed his point.

 

[fractalpotato]

Disney is not any theme park. You must not talk to many people with kids. When they are taking their families to a Disney vacation just any other theme park in FL won't replace Disney.

I actually do, I have a lot of colleagues with kids, I have two younger cousins that love Disney that I take on trips, I grew up going every couple of years. Until recently I was an annual pass holder, I was even a kid myself not very long ago at all. The notion that someone might deny their kids a Disney trip is not that absurd. I know many people who went to Disney World and regretted it, with kids. These people exist, whether or not they fit in to your assumption. It's not a right, it's a privilege, and most people really just don't see it as anything more than a well known theme park. My point was that the notion of a Disney vacation being the only acceptable option for most families is pretty unlikely, nobody is stuck with Disney. They've got a product offering, buying it, especially repeatedly, tells them their product offering is valid.

Matt

 

[fractalpotato]

Here is what I think. Disney is aware of the problem. They don't care because they are still raking in record profits, it would cost too much and it works most of the time. I don't believe they are building a new system or making changes to how the current one is managed. The system is outsourced and Disney has very little control over how it is written or patched together. The company may have tried to fix the problem but as mentioned by people more knowledgeable than I, it is a patch and MDE will continue to have problems. Customer service is reporting the complaints. The higher ups don't care because fielding complaints is the job of the customer service reps and because of what I said above. The only way it will get fixed is if the profits are down, other discounts aren't working to bring people in and they need every enticement they can get. This may be a major problem for a lot of people especially when the whole system goes down but it isn't affecting their profits enough to make them want to fix it. So don't hold your breathe waiting for MDE to get better.

This is exactly right, and anyone thinking otherwise has no idea how a large company manages software infrastructure. Even my employer, who I love working for, has large swaths of poorly written legacy code that will not get touched until it's more expensive to leave it than replace it.

An anecdote to my point that buying the product (going to Disney World) is telling them it's okay. We have a product, it's been around for three decades, it had a number of problems stemming from being built in a pre-Internet world and getting forced in to it. We knew this, we knew we wanted to fix it, we knew we didn't have time. We hated it, we were embarrassed to tell clients it had problems that we weren't going to address. Then one day, a very large client complained about a problem. It was a problem that had been complained ad infinitum, it was very well known and beaten to death. This client said they were going to start evaluating other options because of it. I was woken up at 2am to start fixing that problem, and it was finally fixed a month later. This is how the world works, it's not perfect, it's just reality. Other customers and products suffered for a month because resources were moved, we didn't do that lightly, we did it when it threatened cash flow. Disney is the same way. The scale will be different here, it may take thousands of guests standing up and saying no, but that is how this works. If you're still going, you're part of the reason it's not getting fixed, and that's okay. I'm not advocating anyone not go to make some sort of protest point, that would be silly. If you want to go, go, if it's the vacation of your and your kids dreams, go, enjoy it, know that part of is going to be a little rough most likely. However, the reality is, as long as at that's the default standard, this is unlikely to get fixed. It will eventually get replaced, because better systems will be cheaper for operations, probably the next time everything gets an overhaul.

Matt

 

[MicroBeta]

This is exactly right, and anyone thinking otherwise has no idea how a large company manages software infrastructure. Even my employer, who I love working for, has large swaths of poorly written legacy code that will not get touched until it's more expensive to leave it than replace it.

An anecdote to my point that buying the product (going to Disney World) is telling them it's okay. We have a product, it's been around for three decades, it had a number of problems stemming from being built in a pre-Internet world and getting forced in to it. We knew this, we knew we wanted to fix it, we knew we didn't have time. We hated it, we were embarrassed to tell clients it had problems that we weren't going to address. Then one day, a very large client complained about a problem. It was a problem that had been complained ad infinitum, it was very well known and beaten to death. This client said they were going to start evaluating other options because of it. I was woken up at 2am to start fixing that problem, and it was finally fixed a month later. This is how the world works, it's not perfect, it's just reality. Other customers and products suffered for a month because resources were moved, we didn't do that lightly, we did it when it threatened cash flow. Disney is the same way. The scale will be different here, it may take thousands of guests standing up and saying no, but that is how this works. If you're still going, you're part of the reason it's not getting fixed, and that's okay. I'm not advocating anyone not go to make some sort of protest point, that would be silly. If you want to go, go, if it's the vacation of your and your kids dreams, go, enjoy it, know that part of is going to be a little rough most likely. However, the reality is, as long as at that's the default standard, this is unlikely to get fixed. It will eventually get replaced, because better systems will be cheaper for operations, probably the next time everything gets an overhaul.

Matt

My company still uses time & attendance software that was accessed on a VT220 terminal. The supervisors have to use an emulator on their Windows 7 desktops to access the command line driven software. The IT department maintains UNIX servers just for running this and a couple of other command lines applications. The supervisors spend hours a week in a VAX emulator backing in and out of command line menus instead of completing tasks with a few clicks. In spite of all this corporate won’t change because it works...or more to the point replacing it would be a large capital expense and the decision makers don’t have to deal with it.

IMHO, this is where Disney currently is. The powers that be don’t have to deal with the day to day frustrations and since spending money on patching the current mess doesn’t impact their bottom line so they keep on keepin’ on.

Note: for those who don’t know the VT220 dates as far back as 1983. The 1980s called...They want their software back.

Mike

 

[fractalpotato]

Note: for those who don’t know the VT220 dates as far back as 1983. The 1980s called...They want their software back.

No, no they don't

Matt

P.S. just the other day I had to call deep down a stack of hay in to a FORTRAN method literally older than me because it's still the only method properly vetted to do the calculation I needed. Just a fun story.

 

[Kaarup]

No, no they don't

Matt

P.S. just the other day I had to call deep down a stack of hay in to a FORTRAN method literally older than me because it's still the only method properly vetted to do the calculation I needed. Just a fun story.

I read these boards a lot, seldom comment, but........Matt!! I speak Fortran, grew up with it and punch cards and do loops (1970s). That's why so much of the tech stuff strains my brain. We had a "wonderful" computer that had 3 columns of memory and you moved data by hand. I am absolutely amazed at all of the things MDE can do. But when it doesn't work I figure it's something I did. And we learned patience.... LOL. But I abhor incompetence, and sometimes MDE does that for me too.

 

[Kaarup]

Matt!! I speak Fortran!!! and punch cards and do loops (1970s). The new technology is very cool.... when I can figure out how to use it. I really like the MDE, magic bands, FPs because I remember when... there weren't as many people at WDW. And the parades were good, and the characters roamed the streets. And there were 2 1/2 parks (HS opened w/o Tot or RnR. Catastrophe Canyon was a thrill ride. I am under whelmed now with the projections used at the nighttime shows. I love fireworks and parades. Thanks for a memory!!!

 

[kittyab]

I think they should test a upgrade and make back ups before going live. It would prevent a lot of headaches.

I am in the Hate the Fast Passes camp. I hate booking rides, I wish I could just pay the extra for express pass like you can in other parks.

 

[greg9x]

I think they should test a upgrade and make back ups before going live. It would prevent a lot of headaches.

If only it was that easy, every company would upgrade their software all the time.

Backups are done all the time on any major database... the problem is having the old database work with the new software... even if it's imported, usually there are a lot of fields that don't sync up or transfer right. Then any new data created with the new database would probably be lost if they tried to revert back due to some major issue. So instead of a few hundred people being inconvenienced as it is currently, there is the potential for EVERYONE to lose their data. Imagine THAT mess !

 

[kittyab]

If only it was that easy, every company would upgrade their software all the time.

Backups are done all the time on any major database... the problem is having the old database work with the new software... even if it's imported, usually there are a lot of fields that don't sync up or transfer right. Then any new data created with the new database would probably be lost if they tried to revert back due to some major issue. So instead of a few hundred people being inconvenienced as it is currently, there is the potential for EVERYONE to lose their data. Imagine THAT mess !

I doubt it is a few hundred. My MDE is really messed up when I try to call it is a hour wait to talk to someone. My DH is in IT and he is saying a lot of this could had been prevented.

 

[fractalpotato]

I doubt it is a few hundred. My MDE is really messed up when I try to call it is a hour wait to talk to someone. My DH is in IT and he is saying a lot of this could had been prevented.

It could have been prevented by doing it right the first time around. It's not as simple as "test a upgrade and do a backup". The upgrade would need to be designed, built, deployed, and in place for a hot switch. It would be exceptionally difficult to do it with the current architecture in a way that could be easily undone by a backup. They're too far down a one way street to make it two way suddenly. Best hope is a new street.

Matt

 

[MicroBeta]

No, no they don't

Matt

P.S. just the other day I had to call deep down a stack of hay in to a FORTRAN method literally older than me because it's still the only method properly vetted to do the calculation I needed. Just a fun story.

The solver for our analysis software is still written in FORTRAN. All the 3D graphics, the interface, post processors, etc. are modern code written by guys who know infinity more than I do about programming. But, the actual analysis is done with Formula Translation...it's still an efficient way to do complicated calculations and is easy to call from just about any other language.

I'm an old-school engineer. We were required to use FORTRAN for almost everything when I was in college and I did quite a bit of FORTRAN programming when we were porting from UNIX to PC's. FORTRAN and some VB code in Excel is about I can handle though.

Mike

 

[kittyab]

It could have been prevented by doing it right the first time around. It's not as simple as "test a upgrade and do a backup". The upgrade would need to be designed, built, deployed, and in place for a hot switch. It would be exceptionally difficult to do it with the current architecture in a way that could be easily undone by a backup. They're too far down a one way street to make it two way suddenly. Best hope is a new street.

Matt

Because of this mess up I missed my 60 day window for my fast passes. By the time they were able to link my tickets so I could book them, I could not get a fast pass for any of the new rides.

I agree they a new system. I would do away with the fast pass system and go with a express pass. I would pay the extra to not to go through this crap again.

 

[fractalpotato]

The solver for our analysis software is still written in FORTRAN. All the 3D graphics, the interface, post processors, etc. are modern code written by guys who know infinity more than I do about programming. But, the actual analysis is done with Formula Translation...it's still an efficient way to do complicated calculations and is easy to call from just about any other language.

I'm an old-school engineer. We were required to use FORTRAN for almost everything when I was in college and I did quite a bit of FORTRAN programming when we were porting from UNIX to PC's. FORTRAN and some VB code in Excel is about I can handle though.

Mike

We're in a similar boat, our front end is completely different technology, but C bindings for FORTRAN is very easy, and as far as C/C++ goes, the runtime invocation is cheap, so we don't mess with things that aren't broken.

Matt

 

[fractalpotato]

Because of this mess up I missed my 60 day window for my fast passes. By the time they were able to link my tickets so I could book them, I could not get a fast pass for any of the new rides.

I agree they a new system. I would do away with the fast pass system and go with a express pass. I would pay the extra to not to go through this crap again.

I'm sorry to hear that happened to you! I'm lucky that I haven't gotten hit by it yet, but the stress of making FPs while hoping it doesn't collapse under me seriously screwed with me the other morning when I booked ones for my trip in November. It turned me off the whole thing and I'm kind of not even excited now. It will pass, we will have fun, but it's definitely time for something else! We are booking a cruise on Royal Caribbean for February, and for that the only advanced reservations I'm making are for the plane, and I can do that more or less at my leisure.

Matt

 

[CHEMISTSP]

During my most recent trip in August, I used the Touring Site APP for ride times and management more then MDE. MDE was just too glitchy to the point that I did not even use the mobile order feature because it kept crashing out on our phones (I have an iphone and my wife has a Galaxy Note 9). Touring Plans really saved us on this trip and I am really grateful for how well their APP worked managing my itineraries because the rain was a major factor and caused us to make a lot of on-the-fly adjustments.

I truly hope Disney revamps their APP because it has a lot of issues.