DVC Club Level and Home Resort Survey

[Sandisw]

Maybe? One of the problems is that the other systems that have trusts don't allow "walking" so it's hard to know how Disney would set this up. In Wyndham the only modification you can make to a reservation is adding up to two days to the front and back end of a reservation. Any more than that and you have to cancel and rebook (and risk losing the reservation to waitlists, people with fast fingers who are stalking, etc.). If Disney doesn't change anything and continues to allow walking by Trust members it's hard to say whether they'd let you use points that were allocated to a particular month into the next month. I think they could probably set the system up either way.

I think if Disney was smart they'd copy Wyndham here too and restrict modifications enough so that they put an end to walking, at least by Trust members.

I would certainly be against any change to modifications outside the 31 days, which benefits high point owners.

But, for the trust, they can set whatever rules they want for their members to use their points. And it might make sense to do so.

 

[Sandisw]

doesn't our POS say that resort swapping is not guaranteed? What if they were to restrict legacy DVC to home resort only. What options do they have to control that? Can they exempt themselves and allow the trust points to be swapped. They would instantly be the prettiest girl at the dance.

As long as a resort remains part of BVTC, we get to exchange. If it is removed, then yes, it’s home resort only.

However, the current DVc resort agreements outline reasons that A resort can be removed. It’s not because they feel like it.

Now, if they decide to dissolve BVTC, and start again, then it could be different. But outside of that…which to me would be a tremendous amount of work… current resorts will have exchange rights.

However, there is nothing stopping them from making the home resort period longer than 4 months, which reduces the time to exchange for the resorts.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Ok, so here’s a question. Say I bought into the trust and, like many DVC owners, I plan at 11 months to stay at a specific resort that is my family’s first choice, during a popular, busy time of year. Thats the one where we want the 11 month priority to really count because we love this resort, but don’t love the others in the trust as much. We’ll occasionally take advantage of the booking priority at other resorts, but we don’t love them all equally.

Would my chances to successfully book a room be greater or less than if I were a deeded owner? Because, if they’re less, the ability to book at other resorts doesn’t mean much if I find myself in a mad competition for a limited amount of points for our #1 choice.

Also, say I’m a huge Poly fan, and want to splurge every few years for a stay in the tower, Also, let’s assume I’m neither a Riviera nor a Fort Wilderness lover, like WDW better than Disneyland, and dream of an Aulani trip where for most of the year I can easily book a trip at seven months anyway. What’s the advantage of the Trust?

In these cases, Poly resale is still a better option, no? Using the Poly Tower as the main incentive to buy into the trust, and packaging it with some less popular resorts that are not WDW flagships, doesn’t make this new option, for me, anywhere near a must buy, at least until they build another stand alone resort, which won’t happen for 5 years even if they announce it in 2024. This is assuming, of course, that all current poly owners will be allowed to book the tower, as was implied last week.

What am I missing?

 

[Paul Stupin]

Also, doesn’t this put owners who bought direct points to book at VDH and Riviera at seven months at a distinct disadvantage? Or am I wrong? I doubt if it will be impossible, but it does seem a bit of a bait and switch on DVC’s part.

 

[Sandisw]

Ok, so here’s a question. Say I bought into the trust and, like many DVC owners, I plan at 11 months to stay at a specific resort that is my family’s first choice, during a popular, busy time of year. Thats the one where we want the 11 month priority to really count because we love this resort, but don’t love the others in the trust as much. We’ll occasionally take advantage of the booking priority at other resorts, but we don’t love them all equally.

Would my chances to successfully book a room be greater or less than if I were a deeded owner? Because, if they’re less, the ability to book at other resorts doesn’t mean much if I find myself in a mad competition for a limited amount of points for our #1 choice.

Also, say I’m a huge Poly fan, and want to splurge every few years for a stay in the tower, Also, let’s assume I’m neither a Riviera nor a Fort Wilderness lover, like WDW better than Disneyland, and dream of an Aulani trip where for most of the year I can easily book a trip at seven months anyway. What’s the advantage of the Trust?

In these cases, Poly resale is still a better option, no? Using the Poly Tower as the main incentive to buy into the trust, and packaging it with some less popular resorts that are not WDW flagships, doesn’t make this new option, for me, anywhere near a must buy, at least until they build another stand alone resort, which won’t happen for 5 years even if they announce it in 2024. This is assuming, of course, that all current poly owners will be allowed to book the tower, as was implied last week.

What am I missing?

IMO, a trust system is less likely to give you the priority over deeded interests like we have now.

So, I would only be interested in trust points as a supplement to what I own.

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

IMO, a trust system is less likely to give you the priority over deeded interests like we have now.

So, I would only be interested in trust points as a supplement to what I own.

Sorry, Sandi...Do you mean " trust system is less likely to give you the priority OF deeded interests like we we have now?" ...And so trust points will be better?

 

[Royal Consort]

Ok, so here’s a question. Say I bought into the trust and, like many DVC owners, I plan at 11 months to stay at a specific resort that is my family’s first choice, during a popular, busy time of year. Thats the one where we want the 11 month priority to really count because we love this resort, but don’t love the others in the trust as much. We’ll occasionally take advantage of the booking priority at other resorts, but we don’t love them all equally.

Would my chances to successfully book a room be greater or less than if I were a deeded owner? Because, if they’re less, the ability to book at other resorts doesn’t mean much if I find myself in a mad competition for a limited amount of points for our #1 choice.

Initially your chances of securing your favourite resort are good when the trust is first established but declines as the trust system incorporates more and more owners over years (dependent on the resort's popularity among the commuity). You'd have more assurance of booking your desired resort with the deeded program as opposed to the trust.

 

[Paul Stupin]

IMO, a trust system is less likely to give you the priority over deeded interests like we have now.

So, I would only be interested in trust points as a supplement to what I own.

Initially your chances of securing your favourite resort are good when the trust is first established but declines as the trust system incorporates more and more owners over years (dependent on the resort's popularity among the commuity). You'd have more assurance of booking your desired resort with the deeded program as opposed to the trust.

Considering that most DVC owners, as well as potential buyers, have very specific interests, loyalties, and opinions toward specific resorts, then it feels to me that the trust is more of a niche product than a transformative change. Sandi, agree with you that at best this is a supplement to deeded points already owned.

And I think alot of recent, new buyers, especially those who bought into VGF2 and VDH, will be both confused and irritated by the addition of a new direct purchase option.

 

[dioxide45]

Ok, so here’s a question. Say I bought into the trust and, like many DVC owners, I plan at 11 months to stay at a specific resort that is my family’s first choice, during a popular, busy time of year. Thats the one where we want the 11 month priority to really count because we love this resort, but don’t love the others in the trust as much. We’ll occasionally take advantage of the booking priority at other resorts, but we don’t love them all equally.

Would my chances to successfully book a room be greater or less than if I were a deeded owner? Because, if they’re less, the ability to book at other resorts doesn’t mean much if I find myself in a mad competition for a limited amount of points for our #1 choice.

Also, say I’m a huge Poly fan, and want to splurge every few years for a stay in the tower, Also, let’s assume I’m neither a Riviera nor a Fort Wilderness lover, like WDW better than Disneyland, and dream of an Aulani trip where for most of the year I can easily book a trip at seven months anyway. What’s the advantage of the Trust?

In these cases, Poly resale is still a better option, no? Using the Poly Tower as the main incentive to buy into the trust, and packaging it with some less popular resorts that are not WDW flagships, doesn’t make this new option, for me, anywhere near a must buy, at least until they build another stand alone resort, which won’t happen for 5 years even if they announce it in 2024. This is assuming, of course, that all current poly owners will be allowed to book the tower, as was implied last week.

What am I missing?

If you want a specific resort at 11 months more often than not, buying points deeded to that resort will always be better. I know of no real situation where you would want trust points for this.

 

[Sandisw]

Sorry, Sandi...Do you mean " trust system is less likely to give you the priority OF deeded interests like we we have now?" ...And so trust points will be better?

No, I think that a trust system is going to be worse for those who own sold out resorts.

If a new system is put in place, it might be nice for those who do not care.

iMO, deeded ownerships with priority are better systems than non specific timeshare systems, which is what s trust is.

 

[Sykes]

Considering that most DVC owners, as well as potential buyers, have very specific interests, loyalties, and opinions toward specific resorts, then it feels to me that the trust is more of a niche product than a transformative change. Sandi, agree with you that at best this is a supplement to deeded points already owned.

I'm not sure that I'd agree with "most". A meaningful number, yes, but people that are passionate about DVC and its specific resorts are vastly overrepresented here.

I have a few different friends that bought into DVC in about the last decade. None of them had a specific resort affinity at the time they bought. They went with what was new or what had the best incentives, and at least one of them didn't know that the older resorts were still available for direct sale (to some degree at least) because the guide didn't mention it. It's not that they were totally uneducated--they read up, knew about how points worked, and understood that resale was an option--but they weren't (and still aren't) passionate about it like we are. Heck, I even ran into a friend of my parents who has been a member since 1992 and had over 2,000 points who gave a blank stare when I talked about the home resort booking window. (He also raved about all of the exchange opportunities into cruises and such that he took advantage of.)

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

Ah! Thx, Sandi! I agree.

 

[Paul Stupin]

I'm not sure that I'd agree with "most". A meaningful number, yes, but people that are passionate about DVC and its specific resorts are vastly overrepresented here.

I have a few different friends that bought into DVC in about the last decade. None of them had a specific resort affinity at the time they bought. They went with what was new or what had the best incentives, and at least one of them didn't know that the older resorts were still available for direct sale (to some degree at least) because the guide didn't mention it. It's not that they were totally uneducated--they read up, knew about how points worked, and understood that resale was an option--but they weren't (and still aren't) passionate about it like we are. Heck, I even ran into a friend of my parents who has been a member since 1992 and had over 2,000 points who gave a blank stare when I talked about the home resort booking window. (He also raved about all of the exchange opportunities into cruises and such that he took advantage of.)

Then those friends of yours might be good candidates to potentially waste their money on the trust!

 

[MarkNC2Disney]

Heck, I even ran into a friend of my parents who has been a member since 1992 and had over 2,000 points who gave a blank stare when I talked about the home resort booking window. (He also raved about all of the exchange opportunities into cruises and such that he took advantage of.)

Is your friend Bill Diercksen?

(I kid )

 

[Sykes]

Then those friends of yours might be good candidates to potentially waste their money on the trust!

Honestly, I might be too, depending on how the trust is structured. I'm pretty atypical as a DVC member (at least amongst the members here) in that I book 0% of my WDW visits more than 7 months in advance--my work makes it difficult to plan most of my vacations that far in advance. But we're also quite a bit more flexible on dates closer in once I know my schedule, generally prefer less popular room categories (like 1BRs), and generally prefer shorter stays, so I have no trouble getting 3-5 night stays at desirable resorts when I want to visit as long as I'm willing to put a bit of effort in. If the trust offered lower costs (e.g. a 7 month only membership) or some form of additional flexibility in lieu of the fixed resort 11 month booking window then I might be a customer. (I'm skeptical that the trust product would really end up being for me, but I could see a form of it that could work.)

 

[CarolynFH]

Which is why this idea may have come about? Planning for how to handle the expiring resorts. Once those go back to DVD, then can just be repackaged all under a trust and stay open…with current owners at resorts still in existence being able to access via BVTC.

Not only can they be repackaged into the trust and stay open, the trust participants could pay for the refurbs via dues. Just like a trust makes it feasible for DVC to hold onto VB and HHI - the high dues there just get rolled into the trust dues.

Something else Disney may or may not be considering is whether they’ll want to keep growing DVC or not, either before or after 2042. Marriott isn’t building any new resorts, and I don’t think Wyndham is either, although both have acquired various resort systems i.e. Marriott took over Westin and Wyndham bought out Shell. Creating the trust allows them to reacquire points via ROFR, foreclosure, etc. and resell them, over and over, without having to invest large amounts of capital into building new. I’m not saying that’s in the plans, I’m only suggesting they might be thinking about it, and the trust might allow them that option more than the current DVC does. Something more to speculate about.

 

[maui22]

Not sure why I didn't put two and two together.

Looking at the Polynesian tower renderings, there are two areas (2 floors high and covering roughly 2 studio sections) facing the lake view. No one has identified what these sections are.

Look at the Polynesian King Kamehameha club lounge some time. Those two openings look very similar to what is the club lounge for the Polynesian hotel side.

Could this survey mentioning "club level" possibly be a hint toward King Kamehameha club lounges coming to the tower?

At Polynesian hotel side, there are regulars who book these rooms for the club lounges. If Disney wants them to buy DVC, they will need these club areas in the tower.

Here is a link to a story about the club lounge at Polynesian hotel. There are images inside there that make me think the size of the area is very similar.
https://www.disneytouristblog.com/review-king-kamehameha-club-level-polynesian-resort/

 

[Genie+]

No idea about OKW and its 2042/2057 problem.

They could take whatever portion of OKW that is missing the last 15yrs on contract and add to the trust in 2042, giving the trust more points to sell. I wonder how they plan to handle multiple expiration dates in the trust. Right now a deeded DVD contract can be divided by cost per point and years left. Very curious to the difference in terms the Trust might use.

Thanks for your outline! Seeing an example of how DVD could make it work helps.

 

[Sandisw]

If you want a specific resort at 11 months more often than not, buying points deeded to that resort will always be better. I know of no real situation where you would want trust points for this.

Which is why I have concerns about how a trust will be meshing with resorts that were declared and sold as a component site with priority with in a multi site non specific timeshare plan.

 

[Brian Noble]

Considering that most DVC owners, as well as potential buyers, have very specific interests, loyalties, and opinions toward specific resorts

Are we sure about that?

I suspect most DVC buyers buy whatever the Guides are selling in the moment.