DVC Club Level and Home Resort Survey

[Cfabar1]

Are we sure about that?

I suspect most DVC buyers buy whatever the Guides are selling in the moment.

I agree with this generally, but DVC owners also do have certain views about which resorts they do not want to own at....

 

[Paul Stupin]

Are we sure about that?

I suspect most DVC buyers buy whatever the Guides are selling in the moment.

Are you sure about that?

 

[mkatsy]

Honestly, I might be too, depending on how the trust is structured. I'm pretty atypical as a DVC member (at least amongst the members here) in that I book 0% of my WDW visits more than 7 months in advance--my work makes it difficult to plan most of my vacations that far in advance. But we're also quite a bit more flexible on dates closer in once I know my schedule, generally prefer less popular room categories (like 1BRs), and generally prefer shorter stays, so I have no trouble getting 3-5 night stays at desirable resorts when I want to visit as long as I'm willing to put a bit of effort in. If the trust offered lower costs (e.g. a 7 month only membership) or some form of additional flexibility in lieu of the fixed resort 11 month booking window then I might be a customer. (I'm skeptical that the trust product would really end up being for me, but I could see a form of it that could work.)

I would be attracted to a 7-month membership for a lower cost too, but the dues would stop me from ever making the purchase. When you compound those dues and extrapolate them out over the life of the contract, or at least the amount of the contract that you are alive for ... yikes! ... I would feel way too vulnerable picking up that tab.

 

[achinforsomebacon]

Correct. DVD doesn’t have to be capped. The only current rules that DVD must follow that is the same for you and I is booking. They must wait until 11 months to use their points.

DVD doesn't get capped but with a trust, DVD is no longer the owner of the points. Are they able to change the rules so the trust can also be uncapped?

 

[Tatebeck]

Ehh's Bold Predictions
How I Think the DVC Trust System Will Work

Interesting thoughts, but I would bet a lot of my DVC points that it will be quite different in at least a few ways. Especially since I don't think it would work well booking-wise, it doesn't fix the Old Key West split expiration problem (if you can only include full units, because those are likely split all over the place), the pricing seems wrong, and it doesn't help with the dropping price of resale contracts.

Here's what I think would be more likely (if they are legally allowed to do it). I am looking for the most logical way for them to do this without major disruptions to existing/future direct owners and their bookings.

• Pricing
  • I cannot fathom that they would make the trust cost more per point than a deeded specific interest.
  • The prime real estate resorts wouldn't be included in this example, and it's hard to believe that people would pay more for resorts in worse locations. It looks like there would be zero WDW resorts within walking distance of any park in the example, ZERO. Unless they start making new resorts close to the parks again (is there even room?), or use ROFR to include previously sold out resorts (more on that later). It would make more sense to offer a lower priced way for more people to get into DVC so they can start giving them add-on-itus.
  • Say you liked one resort in the trust more than the others and planned to stay there more often than not but you also wanted to try out a couple others. Due to the free for all booking system, combined with popular travel times, bad luck, etc it would technically be possible (even if unlikely) that you NEVER grab a spot at that preferred resort. With a risk like that, why not buy a small deeded contract, especially if it's cheaper . I would think the trust would be a way to try out multiple resorts for a cheaper price or supplement an existing deeded contract to get access to 11 month booking at multiple rotating resorts for split stays, etc.
  • They could offset the risk of not getting a resort you want by offering a choice when you sign up where you choose your preferred resort out of the most available 5 or so resorts in the trust. You could be guaranteed a stay at that resort in particular every 2, 3 or 4 years for example. I still don't think they would want to guarantee it that often, and a guaranteed resort would be very tough to do unless...
• Booking
  • The easiest way I can see to avoid an absolutely nuts rush to book at the best, most limited, most popular results ASAP would be to make the booking more like what we do now. Each member in the trust could rank the resorts they would like to stay at during the next year from top to bottom. Then they are assigned a "home" resort for all of their points that year, hopefully near the top of their list where they get normal 11 month booking privilege, or maybe 9 month booking privilege if they want to keep it cheaper than buying a direct contract with an option to upgrade later for a set cost.
    • They would book like a normal member, could still use some or all of their points at 7 months if they didn't like their selection for the year, rent them to someone else, etc. Then that resort gets locked out so they cannot choose or get stuck with that resort for a set number of years, then they can rank it again. This lets people filter through the different resorts without getting angry when they never get exactly what they want. Eventually you would get a resort if you keep ranking it high.
    • They could even let you choose your first "home" resort for your points the year you sign up so you are guaranteed to be able to book at one of the resorts you are more interested to start, like a first welcome home stay, then start ranking for future years.
  • If they do it this way, it would be less stressful on booking and remain close to what it is today. Because they are basically swapping people's temporary contracts around every year while never exceeding the maximum number of points the trust has for a single resort in a given year, instead of allowing EVERYONE to try for the same resorts at the 11 month mark. This would allow...
• Legacy Resorts
  • If they are legally allowed to swap around who gets the points to each resort every year in the trust, then why not include the sold out/legacy resorts they can get via ROFR? It would help keep DVC value up by scaring off low offers, and add to their points for the trust if they can buy ROFR points at cheap prices and lump them into the trust. Then they could resell them in the trust for a higher price, and keep them under more of their control. The ranking/rotating system above would make it easier to include these resorts because the members could rank these too and get a legacy resort for a year once in a while.
  • Old Key West units that expire early could be used this way as well if they don't have to be entered into the trust in full units. They could just throw the points into the rotation. The same when the other resorts expire. They could even offer extensions and then roll the points that weren't extended into the trust. Win/win.

 

[Sandisw]

DVD doesn't get capped but with a trust, DVD is no longer the owner of the points. Are they able to change the rules so the trust can also be uncapped?

I think for ownership purposes, they probably can but I had the same thought. But my guess it they’d probably do it as a DBA.

 

[Brian Noble]

Are you sure about that?

What part of “I suspect” was unclear?

But I do have reasons. We here at DISboards think most other people at Disney are like us, and that everyone spends time investigating a purchase and is well informed. Spend ten minutes talking to other owners in the hot tub and it quickly becomes clear that that’s not true.

 

[mkatsy]

What part of “I suspect” was unclear?

But I do have reasons. We here at DISboards think most other people at Disney are like us, and that everyone spends time investigating a purchase and is well informed. Spend ten minutes talking to other owners in the hot tub and it quickly becomes clear that that’s not t

What part of “I suspect” was unclear?

But I do have reasons. We here at DISboards think most other people at Disney are like us, and that everyone spends time investigating a purchase and is well informed. Spend ten minutes talking to other owners in the hot tub and it quickly becomes clear that that’s not true.

DVC is not the litmus test for financial literacy by any means

 

[nalabear]

No, I think that a trust system is going to be worse for those who own sold out resorts.

If a new system is put in place, it might be nice for those who do not care.

iMO, deeded ownerships with priority are better systems than non specific timeshare systems, which is what s trust is.

Great discussion on this Trust. I see the Trust as a giant, super point owner that will rent out its points-- giving access to sold out properties that usually is not available unless 3rd party market renters.

eg Disney does ROFR on VGC contracts and builds 3000 points; they then put 3000 points into the Trust.

Buyers purchase a Trust contract. Now at 11months, 3000 points will be available to book for all those Trust point owners. And the more buyers into the Trust pot, the higher likelihood of them wanting to book right at 11 months.

So while VGC direct owners may not have more points on the books; those 3000 points which typically are spread out booking during home advantage will have a large chance of being booked at 11months; sucking up room availability much quicker than not. --- ie bad for direct owners

If they make it 10months for Trust, then it's a lot more fair, but I doubt the Trust will do that as it would kneecap the whole idea.

 

[thanxfornoticin]

What part of “I suspect” was unclear?

But I do have reasons. We here at DISboards think most other people at Disney are like us, and that everyone spends time investigating a purchase and is well informed. Spend ten minutes talking to other owners in the hot tub and it quickly becomes clear that that’s not true.

We so agree with this statement. More than once we've run into a family all excited about their first stay at a DVC resort, and ended up taking 15 minutes to try and properly explain some of the ins and outs and misconceptions of what they just spent thousands of dollars on. The common thread in those conversations was around the word "Club". Magically, Disney has reinvented their timeshare and has folks believing they are joining some special club - and they just had to buy into the club!

 

[ehh]

The plot thickens...!

Somehow, Palpatine returned! (wait, that's not right...)

"Palmetto" is used in the URL of the sizzle video for Cabins at Fort Wilderness: https://cdn1.parksmedia.wdprapps.di...zle-without-Cabins_DOM-DVCMEM_NOOFF_EN_15.mp4

(from: https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/dvc-cabins-at-fort-wilderness)

Could the entire Cabins at Fort Wilderness be in the Palmetto Trust?

 

[PrincessGidget]

I just got an email from my guide about the Cabins at Fort Wilderness. I found this part interesting:

Membership requires purchasing a deeded ownership interest at The Cabins at Disney’s Fort Wilderness Resort that expires January 31, 2075, which is typically priced at $22,700 to $60,100 (subject to change).

 

[Brian Noble]

As @PrincessGidget points out, the fine print at the end of the sizzle video suggests not, as it uses the home resort langauge [deeded ownership interest in The Cabins...]

As I think about this, it is entirely possible that the Palmetto trust was set up for internal-to-the-company reasons, and not for a customer-facing change; the survey language could just be an unfortunately timed coincidence.

That's not to say that no one in the DVD management layer is thinking about this. They probably are, and they should be because many other timeshare systems have adopted a similar structure. They'd be negligent not to consider the potential risks and rewards to the business. But the temperature-taking nature of the survey does not suggest "We're doing it tomorrow," and Disney is not known for doing things quickly.

 

[walt34]

Could the entire Cabins at Fort Wilderness be in the Palmetto Trust?

Could Palmetto just be the internal code name for the new association for the Cabins at Fort Wilderness?

 

[ehh]

Could Palmetto just be the internal code name for the new association for the Cabins at Fort Wilderness?

Could be! The inclusion of the word "Trust" is a little weird to me, but "Palmetto" totally could be the code name for CFW.

 

[wiihoo888]

As @PrincessGidget points out, the fine print at the end of the sizzle video suggests not, as it uses the home resort langauge [deeded ownership interest in The Cabins...]

As I think about this, it is entirely possible that the Palmetto trust was set up for internal-to-the-company reasons, and not for a customer-facing change; the survey language could just be an unfortunately timed coincidence.

That's not to say that no one in the DVD management layer is thinking about this. They probably are, and they should be because many other timeshare systems have adopted a similar structure. They'd be negligent not to consider the potential risks and rewards to the business. But the temperature-taking nature of the survey does not suggest "We're doing it tomorrow," and Disney is not known for doing things quickly.

I mean….I think its more likely that trust points will have a home resort. You can then book at other available trust resorts under terms not defined yet. Honestly, this scenario made the most sense for me from the get go

 

[Brian Noble]

That's basically what they sell right now.

FWIW, in other timeshare systems with "trust points," (all of WorldMark, Marriott's points product, Wyndham's Access product) there is no notion of home resort.

 

[Sandisw]

Or, they will be selling deeded interests to CFW and points in some level of trust system?

Being its new, I think they can set it up anyway they want, especially since every cabin will be exact same accommodation. So, some units are for deeds and some are not??

It also allows them to set it up so that inventory is declared differently from the start.

 

[wiihoo888]

That's basically what they sell right now.

Not really.

Or, they will be selling deeded interests to CFW and points in some level of trust system?

Being its new, I think they can set it up anyway they want, especially since every cabin will be exact same accommodation. So, some units are for deeds and some are not??

That’s what I’m thinking too. Very much like other timeshare trust systems

 

[Brian Noble]

Not really.

You said:

its more likely that trust points will have a home resort. You can then book at other available trust resorts under terms not defined yet.

Current owners have a Home resort. They can book the Home Resort at 11 months. They can book other resorts at 7 months. If you are suggesting there will be a home resort with an "earlier" booking window than "all the rest" I don't see how that's different from, well, DVC. But maybe I don't understand what you mean?