I’m not imagining things, am I?

[sam_gordon]

Well, major gambling debt would be the same thing. It doesn’t make it any better than all the other alternatives it could be. Let’s not forget he’s being dishonest and not talking to her. As a woman who has spent two thirds of my married life raising kids, running a household and making sure the bills are getting paid my perspective is going to be considerably different than yours. It takes sheer faith to put your fate in someone else’s hands like that. To then have him do what the OP’s DH did would utterly destroy that faith. You make it sound like I’d walk over nothing. I’ve communicated with my DH for 35 years, it wouldn’t have worked if we hadn’t. You’re skipping the part where the OP’s husband stopped communicating with HER.

Let's not forget we only have one side of the story. Yes, it does not look good from the OPs side. And ending the marriage may be the right way to go. I still think ANY relationship deserves a conversation. If the OP confronts the husband and lays out A) What she knows, B) What she suspects, and C) What she's going to do, and the husband isn't forthcoming, then yes, say "good bye". But I think the conversation is warranted.

 

[Marrila]

Let's not forget we only have one side of the story. Yes, it does not look good from the OPs side. And ending the marriage may be the right way to go. I still think ANY relationship deserves a conversation. If the OP confronts the husband and lays out A) What she knows, B) What she suspects, and C) What she's going to do, and the husband isn't forthcoming, then yes, say "good bye". But I think the conversation is warranted.

Many would say she needs to talk to an attorney and also get her financial ducks in a row first.
How and when she chooses a safe place to chat ( and possibly a safe place to stay after) is something to be carefully considered.
Confrontation can be risky financially as well as other ways.

 

[wenrob]

Many would say she needs to talk to an attorney and also get her financial ducks in a row first.
How and when she chooses a safe place to chat ( and possibly a safe place to stay after) is something to be carefully considered.
Confrontation can be risky financially as well as other ways.

That’s basically what I’m trying to say. Protect yourself first.

 

[Lord Manhammer]

While some of us might disagree at times over things, it is encouraging to me that so many people from this board expressed support for the OP. You are all really cool mofo's.

 

[piccolopat]

Follow the advice of your lawyer. Ask your lawyer if you should ask DH to explain what rate and terms he's getting on the HELOC. Rates for those have been high and the market isn't doing particularly well. Is he planning on jumping on the risky cryptocurrency bandwagon or a solid business investment? Approach it from a pure curiosity point of view and not adversarial.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Oh boy, red flag city for the OP. I see OP was speaking with an attorney, which is great. We just hit 25 years (together 27), no kids, but are just hearing about marriages of people in our circle or acquaintances....ending. It's never pretty, but OP's situation is the worst kind with the secrecy and financial infidelity. I hope it all works out OP......sounds like you're being smart about it.

 

[Lord Manhammer]

Oh boy, red flag city for the OP. I see OP was speaking with an attorney, which is great. We just hit 25 years (together 27), no kids, but are just hearing about marriages of people in our circle or acquaintances....ending. It's never pretty, but OP's situation is the worst kind with the secrecy and financial infidelity. I hope it all works out OP......sounds like you're being smart about it.

Interesting as my wife and I just hit 14 years together and so many of our friends are either splitting up or have serious marital issues. It's very sad to witness.

 

[tzolkin]

While I think there is a lot of appropriate advice, I also think having a conversation with him should be a requirement also. "Honey, here's what I've found. Here's what I think. Can you put my mind at ease?"

I get the impression (on this thread and others) that some people are willing to give up on a relationship at the first sign of adversity instead of talking to each other and trying to work things out.

OP did have a conversation with their spouse. They said that they did not agree with taking out the loan and also inquired about what is going on with all these sudden financial changes and secrecy. Spouse is going through with the loan anyway and accused OP of "not trusting him". These are legitimate red flags that there is some issue that they will need help from outsiders (lawyers, therapist, etc) to navigate.

No closing yet, I suppose that will tell.

If the loan has not closed yet, please do not "wait and see". Stop it before it happens. Contact the bank and tell them explicitly that you do not agree with your spouse taking out a loan and inquire how that is even allowed for them to do that without the co-owner's consent. It's entirely possible that he forged your signature and the bank had no idea.

I would also recommend that you take some precautions for your safety. If he knows your wishes and is deliberately taking out the loan anyway, he may react explosively if he is denied the money because you intervened.

 

[sam_gordon]

OP did have a conversation with their spouse. They said that they did not agree with taking out the loan and also inquired about what is going on with all these sudden financial changes and secrecy. Spouse is going through with the loan anyway and accused OP of "not trusting him". These are legitimate red flags that there is some issue that they will need help from outsiders (lawyers, therapist, etc) to navigate.

Don't believe I said they shouldn't get help from outsiders. I just think too many are too quick to give up on a relationship. The gut reaction (again, in this as well as other threads) seems to be "get out". And that may be what the OP needs to do. I'm just not there yet.

 

[mjkacmom]

A similar situation happened with a friend, it wasn’t an affair, her husband developed a housing development addiction, borrowing to pay for another to flip, behind my friend’s back, until it hit the fan and they ended up in bankruptcy. They moved from CA to TX for affordability and had to rebuild. They are still together but it was a long ROUGH patch. Another friend also found out that he her husband mismanaged funds (she wasn’t on the bank account, had no credit cards, had to ask him for money) and they went bankrupt, they are divorced (he also cheated several times). Wishing the best OP.

 

[tzolkin]

Don't believe I said they shouldn't get help from outsiders.

I never said you did.

You stated in multiple posts that the OP needs to have a conversation with their spouse, that every relationship deserves a conversation, etc. so I simply stated that the OP did have a conversation with their spouse. I thought perhaps you had missed their update post regarding the conversation since you kept saying that they shouldn't give up on the relationship without at least having a conversation first.

I just think too many are too quick to give up on a relationship. The gut reaction (again, in this as well as other threads) seems to be "get out". And that may be what the OP needs to do. I'm just not there yet.

I don't know if that's the inevitable outcome either. It's certainly possible that it's something they could work through. But, I am absolutely certain that there is something majorly wrong. One spouse does not take out $250k of debt for secretive purposes explicitly against their spouse's wishes using their family home as collateral and plan to move across country alone unless there is something seriously wrong.

 

[sam_gordon]

I never said you did.

You stated in multiple posts that the OP needs to have a conversation with their spouse, that every relationship deserves a conversation, etc. so I simply stated that the OP did have a conversation with their spouse. I thought perhaps you had missed their update post regarding the conversation since you kept saying that they shouldn't give up on the relationship without at least having a conversation first.

With all due respect, we don't know how much of a "conversation" happened vs accusations and defensive responses.

I don't know if that's the inevitable outcome either. It's certainly possible that it's something they could work through. But, I am absolutely certain that there is something majorly wrong. One spouse does not take out $250k of debt for secretive purposes explicitly against their spouse's wishes using their family home as collateral and plan to move across country alone unless there is something seriously wrong.

Yes, I agree there are definitely issues. But, as I've also said repeatedly, the impression I get (NOT just from this thread) is many don't think relationships are worth fighting for. "Here's a serious problem." "GET OUT! NOW!" I think it's sad that that's the default reflex for some. And THAT is my point.

 

[tzolkin]

With all due respect, we don't know how much of a "conversation" happened vs accusations and defensive responses.

Yes, I agree there are definitely issues. But, as I've also said repeatedly, the impression I get (NOT just from this thread) is many don't think relationships are worth fighting for. "Here's a serious problem." "GET OUT! NOW!" I think it's sad that that's the default reflex for some. And THAT is my point.

I think I understand where you are coming from. My 24-year long relationship with my spouse is the most important thing in my life, so I certainly agree that breaking up should not be the go-to response whenever a conflict arises.

I read most of the posts here as trying to express how serious this situation may be and that immediate action (talking to a lawyer, stopping the loan from proceeding, etc) needs to be taken, regardless of whether the OP stays in the marriage or not. To me, advising the OP to protect themself and talk to a lawyer does not necessarily mean that a divorce is inevitable.

 

[NotUrsula]

With all due respect, we don't know how much of a "conversation" happened vs accusations and defensive responses.

Yes, I agree there are definitely issues. But, as I've also said repeatedly, the impression I get (NOT just from this thread) is many don't think relationships are worth fighting for. "Here's a serious problem." "GET OUT! NOW!" I think it's sad that that's the default reflex for some. And THAT is my point.

I think that in situations where actual violence or evidence of criminal wrongdoing is not present, "GET OUT! NOW!" should perhaps be read as "Prepare yourself for the possibility of having to get out, NOW!" As this situation is financial and involves large numbers, an attorney is the best party to facilitate such preparation, because preparation involves keeping yourself clear of contractual financial obligations you did not agree to, at least until after there has been a full discussion.

I think it pays to keep in mind that not all spouses who do things like this are deliberately plotting malfeasance. Some are genuinely attempting to do something beneficial (perhaps mistakenly), some are suffering from delusions brought on by illness &/or prescription medications, and some are addicts acting out of desperation. Your own place in the discussion will be a much better negotiating position if you have a solid idea going in of which of these things is likely to be the case, based on corroborating evidence, which a neutral third party will help you gather without letting your spouse know before it is too late to proactively protect yourself if it turns out that malfeasance is actually what is happening. Trust but verify -- in advance.

(Sadly, I feel that I have to mention another possibility that has become all too common lately: becoming convinced to believe in conspiracy theories. There is a real problem happening in the US right now where people are being persuaded by strangers to spend &/or donate vast amounts of money to help efforts to "defend" against threats that do not actually exist, and when that is the case, appealing to reason is of very little use. Proactive action to protect joint assets is definitely called for in such cases.)

 

[sam_gordon]

I think that in situations where actual violence or evidence of criminal wrongdoing is not present, "GET OUT! NOW!" should perhaps be read as "Prepare yourself for the possibility of having to get out, NOW!" As this situation is financial and involves large numbers, an attorney is the best party to facilitate such preparation, because preparation involves keeping yourself clear of contractual financial obligations you did not agree to, at least until after there has been a full discussion.

I think it pays to keep in mind that not all spouses who do things like this are deliberately plotting malfeasance. Some are genuinely attempting to do something beneficial (perhaps mistakenly), some are suffering from delusions brought on by illness &/or prescription medications, and some are addicts acting out of desperation. Your own place in the discussion will be a much better negotiating position if you have a solid idea going in of which of these things is likely to be the case, based on corroborating evidence, which a neutral third party will help you gather without letting your spouse know before it is too late to proactively protect yourself if it turns out that malfeasance is actually what is happening. Trust but verify -- in advance.

(Sadly, I feel that I have to mention another possibility that has become all too common lately: becoming convinced to believe in conspiracy theories. There is a real problem happening in the US right now where people are being persuaded by strangers to spend &/or donate vast amounts of money to help efforts to "defend" against threats that do not actually exist, and when that is the case, appealing to reason is of very little use. Proactive action to protect joint assets is definitely called for in such cases.)

I don't disagree with any of that. I did read (whether it was intended or not) that some posters were advocating "leave now". If that wasn't what you (general) were referring to or trying to imply, then my comments weren't directed at you (again, general).

 

[Chili327]

Yes, I agree there are definitely issues. But, as I've also said repeatedly, the impression I get (NOT just from this thread) is many don't think relationships are worth fighting for. "Here's a serious problem." "GET OUT! NOW!" I think it's sad that that's the default reflex for some. And THAT is my point.

And there are many that should have “got out” sooner. lol

 

[WDWDCLDLFAN]

OP here. Ugh, what a few days it’s been. Where do I even start?,

Ok, first of all, I’ve had many, many conversations with him regarding all of the various moving parts, so to speak. The home equity loan, the CA trip, the secrecy about the money that he is redirecting (he set up his direct deposit for his salary, to no longer go fully into our joint account) into accounts that only he has access to.

I know that our household bills are being paid because I do have the login info for all of them. The portion of his salary that it still going into our joint account ,along with my entire disability check, is enough to cover all household expenses.

But what about the portion of his salary that’s going elsewhere? Why the need to do that?

Just to reiterate, I HAVE asked him these questions several times over. His answers always vary, from, ”this is the account that I had to open In order to get my investment money out of their account and into mine“. Again, I’ve asked him why he has to have it all separate and he tries to tell me that it has to be that way, that the banks need things set up like this.

Ok, onto the home equity loan. The current status is the home valuation. Either a drive-by, or they may want to come inside. I have not signed a thing! But just yesterday he told me that I WOULD HAVE TO BE AT THE CLOSING TO SIGN THE PAPER WORK. I told him that I’m not too sure about doing this. I watch many, many true crime shows where one spouse feels they’re backed into a corner, then they murder or attempt to murder the spouse. This happens all of the time.

I have no place to go to, even if I wanted to leave now. I’m disabled and depend on a wheelchair. I have no family or close friends who could help me move, if I ever felt threatened. So it’s a fine line that I’m walking right now….
i do not want a divorce. He knows this very well.

Ok, so ready for what I discovered yesterday? I looked at the internet history on his iPad which is synced with his cell phone. I’m going to post a couple of pages, because I swear I’d thinkthat this was all. Made up….

EDITED TO SAY: I DONT KNOW WHY, BUT IT WILL NOT ALLOW ME TO ADD PHOTOS THAT ARE ON MY COMPUTER. DO I NOT HAVE ENOUGH POSTS, UNDER THIS USERNAME?

 

[wenrob]

OP here. Ugh, what a few days it’s been. Where do I even start?,

Ok, first of all, I’ve had many, many conversations with him regarding all of the various moving parts, so to speak. The home equity loan, the CA trip, the secrecy about the money that he is redirecting (he set up his direct deposit for his salary, to no longer go fully into our joint account) into accounts that only he has access to.

I know that our household bills are being paid because I do have the login info for all of them. The portion of his salary that it still going into our joint account ,along with my entire disability check, is enough to cover all household expenses.

But what about the portion of his salary that’s going elsewhere? Why the need to do that?

Just to reiterate, I HAVE asked him these questions several times over. His answers always vary, from, ”this is the account that I had to open In order to get my investment money out of their account and into mine“. Again, I’ve asked him why he has to have it all separate and he tries to tell me that it has to be that way, that the banks need things set up like this.

Ok, onto the home equity loan. The current status is the home valuation. Either a drive-by, or they may want to come inside. I have not signed a thing! But just yesterday he told me that I WOULD HAVE TO BE AT THE CLOSING TO SIGN THE PAPER WORK. I told him that I’m not too sure about doing this. I watch many, many true crime shows where one spouse feels they’re backed into a corner, then they murder or attempt to murder the spouse. This happens all of the time.

I have no place to go to, even if I wanted to leave now. I’m disabled and depend on a wheelchair. I have no family or close friends who could help me move, if I ever felt threatened. So it’s a fine line that I’m walking right now….
i do not want a divorce. He knows this very well.

Ok, so ready for what I discovered yesterday? I looked at the internet history on his iPad which is synced with his cell phone. I’m going to post a couple of pages, because I swear I’d thinkthat this was all. Made up….

EDITED TO SAY: I DONT KNOW WHY, BUT IT WILL NOT ALLOW ME TO ADD PHOTOS THAT ARE ON MY COMPUTER. DO I NOT HAVE ENOUGH POSTS, UNDER THIS USERNAME?

Make at least ten posts. Just post here a couple more times. You have five so you need five more.

Don’t sign those papers!

 

[AnnaS]

I would not sign any papers. He is up to something. If he gets up and leaves you, what would you do then? You would be alone and have to figure out a way to make it on your own. Why not protect yourself now. You might not want/like the end result but better to think about yourself - you can be in a worse situation.

Isn't the house in both of your names? You get a disability check each month. Do you both have any savings? Do you have any friends/family, church/community group for support? I would hate to see you taken advantage of and left with nothing.

Is it possible he has a gambling problem? Just thinking out loud.

 

[LuvOrlando]

So a cliffhanger? Does seem a bit