If you are watching the coronation, are you team Camellia

[Pea-n-Me]

Did you ever read the transcript of the entire icky conversation? They were joking around by the time Charles says that he wanted to live in her pants. Camilla laughs and asks if he would reincarnate as her knickers. Charles jokes, with his luck he would become a tampon.

The final lines of the conversation can be said in any romcom:
Charles: "Your greatest achievement is to love me.”
Camilla: "I'd suffer anything for you. That's love. It's the strength of love."

Like it or not royals are no robots, they are people who have intimate relationships with one another. The call shouldnt have been tapped and made public. Everyone talks dirty in some way to their partner in the bedroom (or on the phone in this case ). I am sure William and Catherine say similar things to one another. They are in a healthy relationship, why wouldnt they spice up the conversation after the kids go to bed? It's natural.

Did they hurt lots of people, or just their families? With the good work they have done through their charities they have helped a lot more people than they have damaged.

People just don't want the mistress to win.

Yes, talking dirty is nothing new.

The problem was, that, at the time of the call (1989), they were both married to other people.

A beautiful family was destroyed, and the repercussions are still floating around today.

 

[KayMichigan]

it looked like a beautiful family but she was completely miserable and he was in love with someone else. It's not like they were blissfully in love with each other and totally happy. It was never that way. It just LOOKED that way and it was all a lie. Just a sad tragic mess all around.

I don't think just telling her to suck it up and accept that she would always be completely unhappy with no way out, and him to stop loving the woman he loved would have really worked.

If they hadn't gotten divorced, I'm convinced that Diana would not have lived long enough to be crowned Queen. She would have died from the stress and misery years ago.

 

[hrhdhd]

it looked like a beautiful family but she was completely miserable and he was in love with someone else. It's not like they were blissfully in love with each other and totally happy. It was never that way. It just LOOKED that way and it was all a lie. Just a sad tragic mess all around.

You can see from the body language, facial expressions, and wardrobe choices in that photo that they're not a match made in heaven.

 

[TLSnell1981]

it looked like a beautiful family but she was completely miserable and he was in love with someone else. It's not like they were blissfully in love with each other and totally happy. It was never that way. It just LOOKED that way and it was all a lie. Just a sad tragic mess all around.

I don't think just telling her to suck it up and accept that she would always be completely unhappy with no way out, and him to stop loving the woman he loved would have really worked.

If they hadn't gotten divorced, I'm convinced that Diana would not have lived long enough to be crowned Queen. She would have died from the stress and misery years ago.

Allegedly the "beautiful family" started unraveling after Harry's birth. Supposedly this is when the physical affair resumed between C&C. It is said to have been an emotional attachment only for the first few years of C&D marriage. Again it's sad. The union between Charles and Diana was doomed from the start IMO

 

[ford family]

“He would appear to outrank her if he was styled as King”

How is it NOT sexist that kings are seen as more powerful than queens, though?

Not a hill to die on, in my opinion.
"My pair of Queens beats your pair of Kings" said no one ever!

ford family

 

[nancipants]

They aren't more powerful. The one with the power is the one in the royal line, not the one who marries in. QEII had as much "power" as Charles. Just different titles for the different sexes.

I know they're not more powerful. I disagree with having different titles for the sexes, though. IMO Queen should be the title for the ruler, not the spouse. But if Queen consort is a spouse, then King consort should be a title as well.

 

[Karin1984]

“He would appear to outrank her if he was styled as King”

How is it NOT sexist that kings are seen as more powerful than queens, though?

Speaking of sexist, isn't this thread and discussion sexist to begin with? This thread is not called 'are you team Charles'? By calling it 'are you team Camilla', it is putting the blame more on her than on Charles, while there are three people in this story (and even more if you add the people pressuring Charles & Diana to get married, including maybe her own mother).

People are much more forgiving of a man having an affair, than they are of a woman. What do we call a man who sleeps around, and what names do we use for women? Women are held (mainly by other women) to higher standards. We are supposed to do the right thing. And we are unforgiving if they don't.

People don't want the mistress to win and live happily ever after. Camilla's children are older than William & Harry, but still their home got wrecked by Charles. We all talk about what Camilla did to Charles' family as if it was worse than what Charles did to Camilla's family, or not as relevant. If we say Charles gets a pass because Camilla's marriage wasn't good, then you also have to give him a pass because his own marriage wasn't good either.

When you say 'are you team Camilla' you have to think 'who is the opponent, who is the other team'. And in this case it's only about Camilla's status as Charles' mistress vs. Diana's status as Charles' first wife. It's not comparing Camilla to Prince Phillip or to other members of the royal family. While if it was 'are you team Charles' you can argue, will he be a good king or not. Will this be about his accomplishments against the previous kings and queens of England.

This discussion is not about Camilla's accomplishments. While that would be the case if it was about a man.
So yeah... conclusion?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

it looked like a beautiful family but she was completely miserable and he was in love with someone else. It's not like they were blissfully in love with each other and totally happy. It was never that way. It just LOOKED that way and it was all a lie. Just a sad tragic mess all around.

I don't think just telling her to suck it up and accept that she would always be completely unhappy with no way out, and him to stop loving the woman he loved would have really worked.

If they hadn't gotten divorced, I'm convinced that Diana would not have lived long enough to be crowned Queen. She would have died from the stress and misery years ago.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? WHY was Diana so miserably unhappy? Because she came to know her husband was in love someone else and that she was very publicly used to make babies for the RF.

It all played out on the world screen.

But, she moved on with her life.

What I “see” in that photo: A beautiful young lady who was badly deceived, and two innocent young boys who‘ve had to deal with the tragic fallout for the rest of their lives because of it. Granted, they’re tremendously privileged. But we all know that money and “things” aren’t everything and never take the place of a loving mother.

 

[Babs Johnson]

People are much more forgiving of a man having an affair, than they are of a woman. What do we call a man who sleeps around, and what names do we use for women? Women are held (mainly by other women) to higher standards. We are supposed to do the right thing. And we are unforgiving if they don't.

Why is it so easy for men to cheat?

Because most people, even women-no, ESPECIALLY women, blame the “other woman.” The cheating more powerful husband usually gets a pass or his role is downplayed. It’s always been like that. The business executive and his secretary, the airline pilot and the flight attendant, the male college professor and the young female student, etc. The subordinate woman almost always gets the bulk of the blame.

Also, in general, women are often much more vicious to other women than any man is. The bulk of the “home wrecker” and “horse face” comments toward Camilla elsewhere are by women. So are the fat and frumpy looking and slut shaming remarks.

On Judge Judy/Jerry Springer there were often cases where two women were fighting/blaming each other over some no good two timing bum while he just sits back and smirks.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Either or both of them could’ve said no.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? WHY was Diana so miserably unhappy? Because she came to know her husband was in love someone else and that she was very publicly used to make babies for the RF.

It all played out on the world screen.

But, she moved on with her life.

What I “see” in that photo: A beautiful young lady who was badly deceived, and two innocent young boys who‘ve had to deal with the tragic fallout for the rest of their lives because of it. Granted, they’re tremendously privileged. But we all know that money and “things” aren’t everything and never take the place of a loving mother.

It was their marriage no one else's. No one else's business.

 

[bbak30]

I'm not British, so I don't exactly understand all of the tradition. I'm team whatever makes you happy.....
It doesn't seem like Charles and Diana were well suited to begin with and neither of them were happy. If Diana were still alive, would Camila be allowed to do some of these things? Diana wouldn't have been Queen anyway.
Charles and Camila have been married for a while now and seem happy. Good for them.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

It seems like there are a lot of people justifying Charles and Camilla’s affair because, after all, Charles and Diana “weren’t well suited anyway”. Poppycock. He married her and brought her into his fold. She deserved better.

I found myself while watching Charles take his vows wondering about his marriage vows. Anyone else?

 

[CdnCarrie]

It seems like there are a lot of people justifying Charles and Camilla’s affair because, after all, Charles and Diana “weren’t well suited anyway”. Poppycock. He married her and brought her into his fold. She deserved better.

I found myself while watching Charles take his vows wondering about his marriage vows. Anyone else?

No. If I talked like that about my ex-husband I would come across as very bitter.
Not your marriage or your Head of State. I would not put so much effort into thinking about it.

 

[Karin1984]

I'm not British, so I don't exactly understand all of the tradition. I'm team whatever makes you happy.....
It doesn't seem like Charles and Diana were well suited to begin with and neither of them were happy. If Diana were still alive, would Camila be allowed to do some of these things? Diana wouldn't have been Queen anyway.
Charles and Camila have been married for a while now and seem happy. Good for them.

We are talking the early 80s when this marriage was arranged. And it is not as easy to say no when you are heir to the throne of one of the biggest (former) empires in the world. Imagined or not, for the royal family at least a lot depended on this marriage. There were different thoughts back then who makes a good royal bride.

I don't think Charles had a lot of options back then, or the capability to say no. With his upbringing, his status, his mother and grandmother. And neither had Diana, she grew up in a family with a mother not suited for motherhood. I think they both just tried to make everyone happy.

It is easy to look back at the situation through 21st century glasses and think they should never have gotten married. But it really was a different time and place when they married.

 

[dez1978]

It might have saved everyone involved a lot of pain if she had divorced at that point and then they could have been married at that point.

QEII would have never allowed the heir to the throne to marry a divorced woman at that time. Heck, she wouldn't allow her sister to marry a divorced man, and she had no claim to the throne by then. I think the only reason she allowed it later is because after Dianas death, she realized how miserable she'd made everyone with her stupid rules. Rules that seemed to have a much more negative outcome, than positive.

One good thing to come from Charles' marriage to Diana -- Prince William and Prince Harry look like their mother instead of Camilla.

When William and Catherine were dating, Camilla reportedly thought Catherine was too common -- not enough royal in her blood lines. Really?

I feel like Catherine fits the part perfectly, royal blood or not.

That’s not how it works. The monarch doesn’t decide these things.

And it’s up to Britain how they want to celebrate the start of a new reign.

King Henry VIII did it, why not? Didn't the Queen decide to change the rules of sucession?

This has nothing to do with Charles having a weak character. He was the heir to the throne and he respected the fact that his life was not going to be his own. Princess Margaret respected the wishes of her sister and Margaret was not weak or a "woman-baby' (?)... It's just how it was done. Also has nothing to do with the Queen `keeping him on as her heir`...its not like she could pick and choose who the heir would be.

Personally I am happy for Charles and Camilla. There was a time when I would have never thought that, as I always loved Diana. However it is clear that theirs was no torrid little affair, they have truly loved each other all their lives. It was a mess but now they are finally together in their later years. Had Diana lived I`m sure she would have found happiness as well, she certainly wouldn`t be pining over Charles at this point. Time to move on.

Eh, QEII only became queen bc her uncle decided to marry for love. That man gave up a crown he'd been raised for, to marry Wallis. So the option was there. He valued the crown more than love.

Why is it so easy for men to cheat?

Because most people, even women-no, ESPECIALLY women, blame the “other woman.” The cheating more powerful husband usually gets a pass or his role is downplayed. It’s always been like that. The business executive and his secretary, the airline pilot and the flight attendant, the male college professor and the young female student, etc. The subordinate woman almost always gets the bulk of the blame.

Also, in general, women are often much more vicious to other women than any man is. The bulk of the “home wrecker” and “horse face” comments toward Camilla elsewhere are by women. So are the fat and frumpy looking and slut shaming remarks.

On Judge Judy/Jerry Springer there were often cases where two women were fighting/blaming each other over some no good two timing bum while he just sits back and smirks.

Right?! Why is it always the other womans fault, instead of the jerk cheating? Sure, the other woman is sort of morally wrong if she is aware the man is married, but ultimately the fault should fall in the lap of the cheater. Why are women always fighting over some loser?

 

[Moliphino]

We are talking the early 80s when this marriage was arranged. And it is not as easy to say no when you are heir to the throne of one of the biggest (former) empires in the world. Imagined or not, for the royal family at least a lot depended on this marriage. There were different thoughts back then who makes a good royal bride.

I don't think Charles had a lot of options back then, or the capability to say no. With his upbringing, his status, his mother and grandmother. And neither had Diana, she grew up in a family with a mother not suited for motherhood. I think they both just tried to make everyone happy.

It is easy to look back at the situation through 21st century glasses and think they should never have gotten married. But it really was a different time and place when they married.

And the absolute hot mess the marriage turned out to be is probably a large part of what led them to relax their outdated marriage requirements going forward.

 

[CdnCarrie]

King Henry VIII did it, why not? Didn't the Queen decide to change the rules of sucession?

There's a lot more to it then the Queen deciding. Acts of Parliament have to go through like 15 House of Commons.
Poster made it sound like the Queen could unilaterally make the decision.

 

[Babs Johnson]

Maybe Charles should have stayed single. He’d still be King, then next in line would be Andrew.

 

[mom2rtk]

We are talking the early 80s when this marriage was arranged. And it is not as easy to say no when you are heir to the throne of one of the biggest (former) empires in the world. Imagined or not, for the royal family at least a lot depended on this marriage. There were different thoughts back then who makes a good royal bride.

I don't think Charles had a lot of options back then, or the capability to say no. With his upbringing, his status, his mother and grandmother. And neither had Diana, she grew up in a family with a mother not suited for motherhood. I think they both just tried to make everyone happy.

It is easy to look back at the situation through 21st century glasses and think they should never have gotten married. But it really was a different time and place when they married.

I'm old enough to remember life before Charles and Diana married. Charles' dating and love life were splashed across all the tabloids for years. He had LOTS of choices. And lots of time to exercise those choices before deciding to use the 19 year old.