Looking for Advice....

[mjkacmom]

I totally don't agree with this. The fact that the adult kids are out of the picture now, has nothing to do with it, IMO. And we do not know exactly how much the op's mom helped with kids, plus even if she did help with kids, it wasn't during winter months.

Plus kids can really fend for themselves around 10 or so, so not much childcare needed at some point, which would've been several years ago.

 

[Sadie22]

I think the reason my husband feels that we don't owe her is the fact that my siblings have already received a payout from the sale of her original home. My share was her investment in my home that I would retain upon her death. Along with the resentment that they're not here helping out.

It's clear you made a commitment to provide a place for your mom to live in the home improved with a portion of her funds until her passing. I don't know why a grieving widow's funds were distributed as if she was about to pass with her husband. This is a classic example of what not to do. Be that as it may, if you now desire to live elsewhere, you provide a place for mom. You and your husband owe her this.

 

[ronandannette]

See I don't believe this because I think she provided back-up child care help over the years. OP said she didn't provide as much as you would think whatever that means. She also said she wintered south, so during those times OP didn't provide any care. I just think the kids are older and gone, so OP doesn't need mom anymore, so bye,bye mom.

Why on earth would you think anything about a scenario you know NOTHiNG about? We've got no reason to think this OP is lying and you've got no grounds for editing the details in your own imagination.

 

[appleplie]

Since I’m still being dragged through the mud….When my husband and I first made the suggestion that my mother move in with us- and as I had mentioned in my earlier posts, we had trouble getting the necessary approvals from our town to be able to have an in-law-apartment. We started to give up on the idea. My mother thought we were having a change of heart and stopped speaking to me until we got the ok from the town. So again, this is what she wanted. I did not take her in for any other reason than thinking this was the right thing to do.

As for the sale of her home. I have one sibling-a brother. My mother sold him her home for I believe about $75,000. This was probably somewhere around $25,000. less than full-market value. I didn’t think that was totally out of the norm for a parent to sell a home to a child at less than full price. She was able to move on with her life in her new home without any of the hassle or readying her home for sale and she helped give my brother a boost in starting off his life. There was no talk about was what fair between the two of us or anything like that at all and we weren’t dividing up my mother’s money as if she was going to die. She also had plenty of savings left to live on very comfortably. My brother and I are very close and aside from my husband and children are the only ones who “totally get” my mother.

My brother completely rehabbed the home and when he got married 3 years later, he and his wife lived in the home. By the time they had children, my mother was retired and helped care for his children a couple of days a week.

In 2006, my brother sold the home for significantly more than he paid for it. He had put in the work and home values had increased. He used this money to buy another house and moved out of the area.

Also after my mother retired, she began to winter in the south. As I mention before, she stays in a gated retirement community with others her age. She has been doing this for 13 years. It is not cheap. She spends somewhere in the neighborhood of $10,000. per year to do this. This means that she has spent approximately $130,000 from her savings in the past 13 years to do this. I don’t know what she has left. Could be $20,000. Could be $50,000. Could be $100,000. I don’t know. This is something that she thoroughly enjoys and looks forward to. It is also a three-month respite for me.

My mother did not provide childcare for me. This is not to say that she did not ever take care of my kids. But this was certainly not her job. She did not clean for me. For about the first 5-6 years that she lived with us, I cooked dinner for her each night and included her in the family dinner. As the years went on and there was no reciprocation from her, I began to feel like a doormat and we weened away from the dinner. I do not cook for her any longer. I do include her for all holidays. I never expected her to cook for me, clean for me, mow the lawn, etc., but I did expect for her to reciprocate when she could-such as providing a side dish or something for a holiday dinner, helping with the dishes. She does not.

As I mentioned, my brother and I are very close and on the same page with everything related to my mother. My brother has urged me many, many times to make a change for my own well-being and he would back me up. He and his wife have no interest in taking in my mom after seeing what I have dealt with. Even if they would, mom has no desire to go there. It would mean moving away from the area she has lived all of her life.

I feel that moving her into a 55+ community is still living up to my responsibility and obligation to my mom. She would be living in a safe, comfortable environment, close to her friends, with transportation to doctors and shopping. As I’ve said many times now, I am willing to help her out with expenses.


My brother doesn’t want anything from me or my mother. My brother has told me over and over again that I deserve everything and then some.

In reading your responses, it seems the overwhelming majority feel that she is entitled to a return on her investment-so that’s what we will do. I think one of the reasons that I was stuck was that one of the things that she will probably be angriest about would be that she would really have to watch her funds if she wanted to continue wintering in the south. I wasn’t sure if I was required to ensure that she would be able to continue to do that.

 

[smiths02]

I agree with others. Seek actual legal advice. Morally, personally, I think you owe her whatever she paid 19 years ago for the improvements.

 

[Wishing on a star]

OP....
You really have no need to defend and/or justify your plans.
You really need to quit 'engaging' with these judgmental haters....
Def, not good for you right now!!!!
And, def, makes me wonder if, as a couple of others have mentioned, some good counseling might be necessary/helpful for you.

I haven't been following lately, but it seems that you and your DH have made your decision.
And, like your brother... I would totally support you.
I have absolutely no problem or issue with a husband and wife who want to live together, in their own home, as they dream and desire to live.
IMHO... anybody, whether it be a relative, or total strangers online, who think that they should have any say-so, or judgement, are very wrong.

You need to get off of this, and any, public chatboard...
Get some good sound financial and legal and tax advice...
And move forward.

I wish you (as I would anyone) only the best!

 

[quandrea]

Since I’m still being dragged through the mud….When my husband and I first made the suggestion that my mother move in with us- and as I had mentioned in my earlier posts, we had trouble getting the necessary approvals from our town to be able to have an in-law-apartment. We started to give up on the idea. My mother thought we were having a change of heart and stopped speaking to me until we got the ok from the town. So again, this is what she wanted. I did not take her in for any other reason than thinking this was the right thing to do.

As for the sale of her home. I have one sibling-a brother. My mother sold him her home for I believe about $75,000. This was probably somewhere around $25,000. less than full-market value. I didn’t think that was totally out of the norm for a parent to sell a home to a child at less than full price. She was able to move on with her life in her new home without any of the hassle or readying her home for sale and she helped give my brother a boost in starting off his life. There was no talk about was what fair between the two of us or anything like that at all and we weren’t dividing up my mother’s money as if she was going to die. She also had plenty of savings left to live on very comfortably. My brother and I are very close and aside from my husband and children are the only ones who “totally get” my mother.

My brother completely rehabbed the home and when he got married 3 years later, he and his wife lived in the home. By the time they had children, my mother was retired and helped care for his children a couple of days a week.

In 2006, my brother sold the home for significantly more than he paid for it. He had put in the work and home values had increased. He used this money to buy another house and moved out of the area.

Also after my mother retired, she began to winter in the south. As I mention before, she stays in a gated retirement community with others her age. She has been doing this for 13 years. It is not cheap. She spends somewhere in the neighborhood of $10,000. per year to do this. This means that she has spent approximately $130,000 from her savings in the past 13 years to do this. I don’t know what she has left. Could be $20,000. Could be $50,000. Could be $100,000. I don’t know. This is something that she thoroughly enjoys and looks forward to. It is also a three-month respite for me.

My mother did not provide childcare for me. This is not to say that she did not ever take care of my kids. But this was certainly not her job. She did not clean for me. For about the first 5-6 years that she lived with us, I cooked dinner for her each night and included her in the family dinner. As the years went on and there was no reciprocation from her, I began to feel like a doormat and we weened away from the dinner. I do not cook for her any longer. I do include her for all holidays. I never expected her to cook for me, clean for me, mow the lawn, etc., but I did expect for her to reciprocate when she could-such as providing a side dish or something for a holiday dinner, helping with the dishes. She does not.

As I mentioned, my brother and I are very close and on the same page with everything related to my mother. My brother has urged me many, many times to make a change for my own well-being and he would back me up. He and his wife have no interest in taking in my mom after seeing what I have dealt with. Even if they would, mom has no desire to go there. It would mean moving away from the area she has lived all of her life.

I feel that moving her into a 55+ community is still living up to my responsibility and obligation to my mom. She would be living in a safe, comfortable environment, close to her friends, with transportation to doctors and shopping. As I’ve said many times now, I am willing to help her out with expenses.


My brother doesn’t want anything from me or my mother. My brother has told me over and over again that I deserve everything and then some.

In reading your responses, it seems the overwhelming majority feel that she is entitled to a return on her investment-so that’s what we will do. I think one of the reasons that I was stuck was that one of the things that she will probably be angriest about would be that she would really have to watch her funds if she wanted to continue wintering in the south. I wasn’t sure if I was required to ensure that she would be able to continue to do that.

I've been loosely following this thread. Just wanted to offer some virtual support. No one but you can know what you are going through. As someone with very difficult relationships with both parents, I understand that there is so much more at work here. There is a lifetime of dysfunction that comes into play. Good luck navigating it. You owe no one any explanation--least of all internet strangers. Do what feels right. Live YOUR life.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I see that you are now thinking to pay your mother on the moneys put into your house.
OP: I personally think that she has already gotten a return on her investment, many times over... by. having had her residence, and many expenses, etc.. covered for nearly 20 years.
BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT MATTERS!!!!! WHAT I OR ANYONE ELSE HERE THINKS IS NOT WHAT MATTERS!

Again, at least TALK to an expert.
Fine, if you do pay her some proceeds.
If that is what might help make this work out for the best... then great!
But, you really need to know all of the legal and tax ramifications going into the future.

You and your DH do not need to make any costly mistakes.

 

[HarperLeigh]

I've been loosely following this thread. Just wanted to offer some virtual support. No one but you can know what you are going through. As someone with very difficult relationships with both parents, I understand that there is so much more at work here. There is a lifetime of dysfunction that comes into play. Good luck navigating it. You owe no one any explanation--least of all internet strangers. Do what feels right. Live YOUR life.

Just repeating and agreeing with what quandrea said. You don't owe anyone anything. You've definitely paid your dues of your "moral obligation" rolleyes to your mother.

 

[SC Minnie]

I would have a talk with mother and tell her you are looking at moving to X. She has a choice to either come with which would mean smaller living quarters with less privacy and away from everything or moving into a 55+ community where you are or where she winters. The choice would be hers. If she chooses the 55+ communities then have her talk with your financial person if she doesn't have one or talk to her own to see what she can afford.

As far as paying her out for what the upgrades in the home, if she chooses the 55+ maybe offer to help get her set up and and deal with some of her bills or something.

 

[Wishing on a star]

'Come-with', to smaller livng quarters with even less personal privacy and personal boundaries for the OP and her DH.
Seriously??????
Wow.

 

[luvsJack]

Just repeating and agreeing with what quandrea said. You don't owe anyone anything. You've definitely paid your dues of your "moral obligation" rolleyes to your mother.

So you think its perfectly fine for the OP to say "Sorry Mom, we are moving, you are on your own. We know that the addition you paid for upped the value of our home but oh, well, too bad so sad. Bye now"? Really?

I don't think that's what the OP wants to do or intends to do, but you sound like it would be perfectly fine because she doesn't "owe" anyone anything, least of all Mom.



BTW, some of you keep missing the fact that Mom paid her utilities and she obviously paid for her day to day expenses and food and such. So we are talking taxes on a house that the OP owns, maintenance and things that they would have paid if Mom was any other tenant.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In reading your responses, it seems the overwhelming majority feel that she is entitled to a return on her investment-so that’s what we will do. I think one of the reasons that I was stuck was that one of the things that she will probably be angriest about would be that she would really have to watch her funds if she wanted to continue wintering in the south. I wasn’t sure if I was required to ensure that she would be able to continue to do that.

Aside from all the personal stuff that still very much is impacting things (you do continue to share more personal details) I wouldn't advise you to blindly take the advice of 'returning her investment' because posters here have said that (even if I do agree with that); I could see you using that as opening your eyes to the possibility of doing that out of a moral obligation but you need to speak with someone who can give you impartial expert legal advice on what you may be legally required to give her, which could be nothing for all I know but I would assume you'd like to actually know that.

 

[HarperLeigh]

So you think its perfectly fine for the OP to say "Sorry Mom, we are moving, you are on your own. We know that the addition you paid for upped the value of our home but oh, well, too bad so sad. Bye now"? Really?

I don't think that's what the OP wants to do or intends to do, but you sound like it would be perfectly fine because she doesn't "owe" anyone anything, least of all Mom.



BTW, some of you keep missing the fact that Mom paid her utilities and she obviously paid for her day to day expenses and food and such. So we are talking taxes on a house that the OP owns, maintenance and things that they would have paid if Mom was any other tenant.

The OP isn't saying that, so your point is moot.

 

[mom to minnie&mickey]

OP, thank you for posting further info. Based on that info my opinion has changed and you deserve to live the life that you and dh want and as your brother does with his family. You have done your duty above and beyond. Seeing as she lives apart from you for 3 months anyways she should be able to adjust. As far as the money is concerned I am now in the camp that you only owe her anything over $25,000 that she may have spent. Your brother got a house and paid $25,000 below value (money in his pocket) and no responsibility for mom. So the new addition is your share plus value increase over 19 years.

I think people have been harsh because your very first post paints a totally different image than what I am seeing now with all the added info. That is the problem with asking strangers for opinions on something so personal. We only have the info that you decide to tell us with which to form an opinion. Best of luck.

P.S. If mom needs financial help to meet her needs at her new home and to continue going south in the winter then your brother needs to step up just as much as you to help out. Why should you be the only one to shoulder the cost and how is that fair to your dh?

 

[powellrj]

Why on earth would you think anything about a scenario you know NOTHiNG about? We've got no reason to think this OP is lying and you've got no grounds for editing the details in your own imagination.

There was no editing the details. She said that her mom provided care for her children, just not as much as you would think. Then she became this helpless person who could travel south alone, but couldn't change a lightbulb. I never said she was lying, I just said there are 2 different people she is depicting.

 

[mom2rtk]

OP, I think you have a moral obligation to help if your mom needs food or medicine. I don't think you have a moral obligation to make sure she can continue to winter away from home.

I don't think you are morally obligated to live in this house the rest of your life.

What you're morally obligated to do if you sell the home, including the additional space Mom paid for is far more complicated (as I'm sure you know by now).

How about sitting down and having a conversation and asking her some open ended questions. Lay out the facts about the changing neighborhood and ask her what she thinks would be a reasonable answer?

 

[disykat]

I still find it interesting that so many posters keep insisting that the addition added a ton of value to the home. (and that somehow OP's big goal is profiting from taking in her mom for 19 years) Not all additions increase the value of a home, especially if they are specific to the owner and not something usable by the new owner.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I still find it interesting that so many posters keep insisting that the addition added a ton of value to the home. (and that somehow OP's big goal is profiting from taking in her mom for 19 years) Not all additions increase the value of a home, especially if they are specific to the owner and not something usable by the new owner.

Actually, the OP said in teh first post that the additional square footage added to the value of the home

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I still find it interesting that so many posters keep insisting that the addition added a ton of value to the home. (and that somehow OP's big goal is profiting from taking in her mom for 19 years) Not all additions increase the value of a home, especially if they are specific to the owner and not something usable by the new owner.

Well I will say the OP themselves has insisted several times that it did add value to their house in the form of square footage. As to how much will of course vary by place and time.

Heck my husband's coworker finished his basement (and not even all the ubber nice just more or less basic not high end finishings other than a very nice carpet padding and the basement wasn't overly large but wasn't overly small either) and the county raised their property value by $50,000. Now they aren't too too happy about that just because they aren't in the market of selling so now they owe a lot more property tax.