"Magic is about deception," Eisner told NEWSWEEK

[crusader]

My take, and I believe it is the Element's take, is that we have no opinion on Ei$ner's first ten years. We believe it was the creative spirit from many talented persons, and a pent-up demand for Disney products, services, parks, and movies that led Ei$ner to ride a wonderful wave.

I agree that positive waves are typically the result of a tremendous effort within a company not simply attributable to the person sitting at the helm.

but.................
negative waves have to do with many factors as well.

The problem with these debates is that nothing good is ever attributable to this CEO but everything that has ever gone wrong in the past 10-20 years is emphasized and displayed and repeatedly remarked upon over and over and over.

You can't have it both ways. It's either one guy who gets all the glory and takes all the blame or it's an entire group. Take your pick.

We can all just push rewind and press play to hear how EuroDisney and California Adventure and Pixar and Mickey Butter and ABC and Direct-to-video sequels and plush and the demise of handdrawn animation and the closing of the disney stores and maintenance and safety issues are all Michael Eisner's fault!!!!

That's right folks! Tune in tomorrow and we'll find even more stuff to throw at this guy because when the chips are down the buck stops at only one place!!!!

As for the 20 years he's put forth, well anything that was ever remarkably achieved by the company has nothing to do with him whatsoever. That must have been the invisible man or his imaginary friend.

Get Real!

 

[dcentity2000]

Ummm...

I guess I shall repeat.

Eisner is not responsible for every good Disney thing.

He most probably should not stay until 2006.

But he SHOULDN'T be chucked out without due thanks for what he HAS done, which is help the company actually survive.

As one bright poster said, it was Wells who in fact possessed all of the creative force and as one (now retired) investment banker said, Eisner only really worked in catalyst with Wells - without him, he would either need another Wells to be introduced (which there is probably no time for now) or to be given an easy way out - possibly that's what the contract negotiations are for?

Eisner brought with him a reputation and field experience which helped to fight off hostile bidders in the 1980s. The company then proceeded to grow from $2bn to $61bn.

As for Roy causing the hostile bid by Comcast, I really don't think so. Possibly he accelerated the process by making the head of the company appear unsupported, but a bid like this would have been considered for a long time before. I really don't think Roy's to blame and besides, it would never have been his intention. He loves this company.

ps. LandBaron - it's the double exclamation marks that do it. The only other place I read those are in my Criminal Law Reports... I have, on demand, changed my font for you



Rich::

 

[Peter Pirate]

Listen LB, dead Frank is forever more tied to the hip of live Mike. They were a team. A team that had Eisner at the helm (for whatever reason). A team that succeeded greatly and in harmony at that time. But Frank died and I believe that emotional effect is what changed Eisner. It is well documented how confused he was about this time (due to Franks untimely death and his heart problems). So there it is. Give credit where due my friend. The first 10 years = Frank? Yes. Michael? Yes.

I won't go into the litney of what he's done as we've been there so many times but suffice to say the circle of what you accept keeps getting smaller (i.e "overbuilding of WDW"). But I will point out (1)Disney On Broadway, (2)DVC, (3)the culmination of WDW as the worlds premiere vacation destination, (4)the deal he struck with the unknown quantity Pixar, (5)the feature animated film division success in 2003 and (6)DCL, just off the top of my head. How does Frank get credit here?

Larry, I admire the way d2000 sees these issues. They seem less based in emotion and more based in business reality. The 'element' sees things in one manner and has certain members who get a 'fee pass' with virtually every tidbit they pass on...We in the 'pixie dust' crowd give no such thing. While I agree almost all of the times with Scoop, crusader, Kidds and now d2000, there will be differences which prevent us from being color coded as some folks so want to do.

But to get to the point Mr. Larry, I agree that now is the time for eisner to stay because he is staying. He hasn't been forced out yet, there doesn't seem to be a plan for succession and there doesn't seem to be a 'white knight. My caveot, as you know, is Iger. It would be fine with me to have Eisner leave (now) and elevate Iger and see where he takes us. It'd be painless for wall st. and there is a chance (better than sticking with eisner) that deep down he might truly understand the situation but has been required to tow the company line because, well, thats his job. But it would be foolhearty to force eisner out 'just because'...This would be an open invitation for Comcast and all of the others to come much more forcefully than it appears they are now. Even Diane Disney sees this.

 

[PKS44]

Eisner himself admits that he deserves little credit for the success of the first ten years.. Eisner told NEWSWEEK last year: "If I had done nothing, I would have been a hero, just being there to catch the fruit."

There is no evidence that Disney will be anything but stronger without Eisner--just a lot of bogus speculation about takeovers because Eisner is gone....a stock that goes up $3-$4 a share when a guy leaves is generally considered stronger not weaker for those of you intereested in the business side of things...but what do I know I am just a fan.

 

[BRERALEX]

We can all just push rewind and press play to hear how EuroDisney and California Adventure and Pixar and Mickey Butter and ABC and Direct-to-video sequels and plush and the demise of handdrawn animation and the closing of the disney stores and maintenance and safety issues are all Michael Eisner's fault!!!!

you forgot the chicken finger.

 

[dcentity2000]

"Well hi there everybody!"

You know what?

At the end of the day, all that will come of this is a 'did' versus 'didn't' argument as both sides clash with only circumstantial evidence. It could go on forever - after all, is LandBaron likely to abandon his firmly held views? Or crusader? Or myself?

As students, office workers or investment bankers we can only ever speculate upon the state of play within a company far beyond our realms of control; in the end, only a certain few with ties to the company will ever know the truth as we so often wish to.

I think that although it is all very well to post opinions it is just a tad confrontational to ardently fight all those who disagree with you. Accept that others will think differently and accept that they have a right to.

I guess that it's all just part of the human process, the desire to make your point of view the dominant one. I have displayed it and probably shall in future posts; we can't really help it.

We can help, however, by stopping arguments when they reach a certain stage of ferocity. Let's show some decorum in our posts

Happy surfing from Simba Cub



Rich::

 

[dcentity2000]

Originally posted by airlarry!
...DisneyCentury2000...DisneyCentury2000...

It's Direct Current Entity actually, after a being of pure, unadulterated energy - not exactly fitting, I know, but it sounded nice

The 2000 bit was because at some point in the past, a chat board demanded numbers of me



Rich::

 

[crusader]

you forgot the chicken finger

Man! How could I have left out such an important symbolic factor.

Was it conspiracy? Careless? or just a mere oversight with no hidden agenda.

HA!

 

[BRERALEX]

I knew there was a hidden agenda

sure hours and maintanence get all the limelight but does anyone talk about the finger?

Does the finger make the headlines?

Was the finger mentioned at the stockholder meeting!!!!!!!! no its always everything else but when i go to columbia harbour house and get a missing finger nooone cares. The ei$ner apologists tell me to accept the missing finger and that the remaining have more magic in less numbers!

Man! How could I have left out such an important symbolic factor.

my straw.

 

[crusader]

no its always everything else but when i go to columbia harbour house and get a missing finger nooone cares.

I care. If I could give you the finger I would!

 

[BRERALEX]

lol i knew it was comming.

you really are from jersey

so am i

 

[DisneyKidds]

Not much to add folks. I have always agreed that Eisner deserves a share of the credit for the positive things that happened during his first decade of power. A team is a team, and everyone contributes. But that is rather irrelevant to the discussion. We aren't arguing about what happened from '84 to '94 (for the most part). Heck, I can't say that I've ever heard the biggest detractors say that Eisner NEVER should have been in the picture. Rather, what we are talking about is what has transpired from the mid-90's on, who contributed to that, why are things not what we would want them to be, and does any of that, combined with the positives of the decade before, give us any insight as to Eisner's true abilities.

So..............it seems there is consensus that Eisner should go. That being the case, forget about what happened during Eisner's good years. It is irrelevant to what we should do today.

So...........why should Eisner go? Well, the stock has underperformed and just about all segments are struggling to some degree, granted - for a variety of reasons that couldn't ALL be controlled by ME. However, the consensus that he should go means that we agree he should have done a better job in the face of all those circumstances.

So.........why the struggles? This is where things take a turn, and it took some learning for me to realize it fully. Eisner was good at heading a team, a team which was allowed to have real input and some measure of control. However, it seems things began to turn when the team disappeared, and Eisner was consumed by a more absolute power. Disney started to become what ME wanted (a media conglomerate) as opposed to what it had been traditionally.....and don't give me that line about needing to expand to avoid takeover, this was long after Disney was out of those woods. IMHO he has tried to be too controlling, and lacks the abilities to guide the company in the right direction all by his lonesome (remember, the board was never a controlling influence as it was loaded with croanies). So, credit for his team input prior to the slide, he really is lacking in the abilities the Walt Disney Company needed to be successful during a very trying decade.

That is why he should go............and all input he had or credit he deserves for successes in the 80's/90's can't change that.

And just so as I can remain part of the pixie-dusted crowd, despite all that WDW still rocks dude..............can't wait to get there in May and pay a reasonable (all economic factors considered) $214 a night to have Disney try and deceive me into thinking I'm on the Atlantic City Boardwalk (read: I think people are taking this deception quote out of context ).

Guess I had more to add than I thought .

 

[crusader]

so am i

I saw that!

btw - it's south jersey!

 

[BRERALEX]

i work in (i think its south jersey)freehold mall. but live up north

you know south jersey is like another country all together. i wonder if theyll close the disstore in FHM its pretty big and used to be one of the nicest till they added all that plush to decieve US!!!!!!!! had to stay OT somehow

 

[crusader]

Freehold is north of me. It sounds like you may be outside of NY.

You're right about the another country remark. There's alot of Philly in South Jersey.

That Freehold Store is up for sale. Eisner confirmed at the meeting that all stores were intended to be sold as a group or privately or closed out-right, with the exception of 5th Ave.

It's a shame the stores aren't making it. I agree they shifted focus and the merchandise changed with more pink and plush which had to have contributed. But given the WB closings and FAO Schwartz filing chapter 11, I'm not sure if that was the entire reason. There's a bigger problem here.

(thanks for the great laugh this morning)

 

[dcentity2000]

Originally posted by thedscoop
1. Diane Disney Miller is on record as stating that Eisner has done good things for Disney but now it is time for him to leave.

2. Roy Disney is on record as stating that Eisner has done good things for Disney but now it is time for him to leave.

Basically, most everyone agrees with the "now time to leave" part of this position. However, there are certain provactuers among us that insist the "Eisner has done good things for Disney" part of their position is completely inaccurate.

This leaves those with a dilemma: They love the language Roy is now using, but can't agree with his prior language.

Under this scenario, Roy and Diane must either be incompetent or lying when they say that "Eisner has done good things for Disney".

And, if that is the case, agreeing with even part of a liar's or incomptent's position is a fallacy waiting to happen.

Because "The Scoop shall set you free", I chose to follow C.SLewisian logic and now re-iterated again that:

TheDScoop is on record as stating that Eisner has done good things for Disney but now it is time for him to leave.

Why?

Because I don't think either Diane or Roy are incompetent or lying.

I second this



Rich::

 

[crusader]

I would like to go on record as stating that Eisner has done good things for Disney and he should now take what little time he has left in his contract to retire.

I am also rethinking my Iger position more in favor of Mr. Pirate's having seen and heard him in person. I'd like to understand more about this guy.

 

[dcentity2000]

Originally posted by airlarry!
But wouldn't that make you disagree with DisneyCentury2000 when he says we should not get rid of Ei$ner until 2006?

I never said that



Rich::

 

[PKS44]

Originally posted by crusader
I would like to go on record as stating that Eisner has done good things for Disney and he should now take what little time he has left in his contract to retire.
.

That sounds like leave him there til 2006 and that is unacceptable.

Also the name CS Lewis and the word logic have no business being in the same sentence. Ultimately you KANT have logic and what Lewis was talking about.

I once again suggest that anyone interested in an amazingly prescient movie from the 1950's please see Executive Suite with William Holden. His closing speech about the failure of the prior company management and the proper vision for the future of his company is so perfect for Disney's situation that it is eerie.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Mr. dcentity,

First things first:

I have, on demand, changed my font for you

Thank You!!

Second things second:

it's the double exclamation marks that do it.

It started off as a device to be heard above the natural noise level of a board. It has since become a trademark and a (very, very BAD!!!) habit!!!



Third things third:

CONGRATULATIONS!!! You have single-handedly brought back both myself and this board’s resident ‘Company Man” – the distinguished an honorable – SCOOP*! Mr. Matt, His Airness and Mr. Alex are already here! All we need now is for AV and the Frozen One to show up and the car pool will be complete!! (Hmmmmm. Where have I heard that before?)

For now that’s it. But Scoop said some nonsense that needs attending to and Peter (Ah! My favorite by far) is more twisted than usual!! In the immortal words:

I SHALL RETURN!!







* if that don’t get under his skin – nothing will!!