Marriott vs. DVC

[stlrod]

No offense to Dean but his comment about flexibilty is not accurate. There is a connection between the Marriott Rewards program and MVCI. Every other year, Marriott owners who purchased their interests from Marriott can exchange their week for Marriott Rewards points. The number of points is determined by the season and size of unit purchased (in our case, owners of a Sport Week at Cypress Harbour, it is 90,000 points.) Those points can then be used with any other points accumulated for stays at an Marriott, Rennaisance or Ritz-Carlton in accordance with the Rewards Program. This option is not available to a purchaser of a resale (unless the purchase was handled by MVCI resales.) In addition, an owner of any Florida Marriott property built after Cypress Harbour (Grande Vista, Ocean Pointe, BeachPlace, Villas at Doral and the new one in Panama City Beach) has an added benefit. He or she does not have to go through Interval International to book a stay at one of the sister-properties. It can be done directly through Marriott. I am not aware of any new Marriott properties selling fixed-weeks (there may be one, I'm just not aware of it and very familiar with MVCI.) It is my understanding you can only buy into a "season." The seasons are essentially based on popularity of the resort destination. For example, our Sport Season (which was the mid-priced season of the three seasons available when we bought) generally runs from May 1 to June 20 and August 20 to December 20 (the exact dates change each year but are usually within a couple of days.) If you want to get a unit outside of your season in Orlando, it must be done through II (which is generally fairly easy as the 3BR unit I referred to in my first post was in July.) At newer resorts, the seasons are named for precious metals (bronze, silver, gold and platinum.) And as for Joe Black's comment about owning both, that would be "Timeshare Nirvana."

 

[Jaga]

I have noticed that a good number of posters own more than one timeshare to complememt DVC. In fact I am waiting to close on DVC and own HGVC for beach vacations in Sanibel/Marco. They complement each other for me but I regret owning two properties in Orlando.

This thread suggests buying MVC AND DVC for the best of both worlds.

Any ideas on the best value Marriott trader to access the MVC portfolio (incl Hawaii and Cancun) for a DVC member looking to complement DVC.......... or is this outside the limits of this board

Just wondering????

PS Should this be a new thread ?

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by stlrod
No offense to Dean but his comment about flexibilty is not accurate. There is a connection between the Marriott Rewards program and MVCI. Every other year, Marriott owners who purchased their interests from Marriott can exchange their week for Marriott Rewards points.

No offense taken. I was very simplistic in my answer. They are related but not that directly. You basically give up your timeshare in return for Frequent Flier type points. A program that, like Concierge Collection and related programs, could change significantly or go away tomorrow. You do also have to both buy a points property and buy from Marriott. The latter is no small matter. Buying a resale from Marriott can add 40% or more to the cost. My two Grande Ocean weeks would have been $18000 more through Marriott than otherwise and currently there is a $23,000 difference between what I paid and what Marriott sells for. It's not that I bought several years ago either as I have bought both within the last 2 years. I can't see the logic in buying a $20K or more timeshare, pay them a $104 fee every time I opt for points to stay in a hotel room. That's not to say the program doesn't have value, it does to certain people in certain situations, just not most people. It's much like the Disney Collection discussion, if you compare to discounts you could easily have gotten otherwise, it's not usually a good deal.

 

[stlrod]

I don't know that I would agree that discounts can always be had "easily". Right now, with unprecedented discounts at WDW, that would make for a very good argument not to buy DVC. But, I agree with the DVCrs who argue that DVC is still a smart move because we cannot count on those discounts lasting. And I doubt I'm in the minority (or at least not a small minority) of Marriott owners who believe the Rewards program has little value. For those of us who travel and stay at Marriotts to maximize points, that extra 90 -110,000 every couple of years really boosts the power of the program. Having said that, you are correct, it is a perk which can disappear tomorrow. And, the Rewards program just underwent a major restructuring which has made many people angry. Even though the increases really weren't that bad (the best award, the 7 day Hawaii award only went from 125,000 to 130,000) it changed and can continue to change. And I agree 100% that if the Rewards Program would not be of value to a buyer, it is much smarter to buy re-sale through someone other than Marriott. Dean, keep in mind though that the original purchasers of those properties you bought did get a couple of years' use out of them and probably got 200,000 points when they bought (I realize that the value probably isn'y even close to half the difference.) But the truth of the matter is that those people from whom you bought probably had no business buying a timeshare from DVC, Marriott or any other company. My guess is that they sold for financia reasons rather than dissatisfaction. Going back to the original post, I think the imprtant thing is that a prospective puechasers does exactly what he is doing and check out several alternatives and once a decision is made learn how to "work that program" to get maximum value."

 

[Dean]

I was only referring to the ancillaries like DC, CC, and to a certain extent, DCL. DVC can be a great value used appropriately.

 

[stlrod]

One other point for compatison is the cash discounts you get at other resorts. Recognizing this is a perk that can be taken awat w/o notice, at Marriott, we can generally get a 25-30% discount at other MVCI properties. Dean, I assume you get this even though you did not buy from Marriott (correct me if I'm wrong). What kind of discounts do DVC members generally get at the other resorts? I remember this summer when I was at HH speaking with a DVC salesman, he said we're sold out at full rack rate. He about fell out of his chair when I said, "Check at the front desk, I booked my room a week ago at a 25% Disney Club discount." Was that discount also made available to DVC members?

 

[stlrod]

On Dean's Comment, "DVC can be a great value," I agree wholeheartedly and probably would omit the "if use appropriately."

 

[Diznut84]

Originally posted by Jaga
Any ideas on the best value Marriott trader to access the MVC portfolio (incl Hawaii and Cancun) for a DVC member looking to complement DVC?

In my opinion, owning a summer Marriott Hilton Head Spicebush or Swallowtail is a great value, as well as Marriott's Harbour Point. A middle of summer week should run $6000-$7000 (annual fees $500-$650?). I am not a fan of Marriott Reward Points (in my opinion they are a poor value and the values can (and have been!) changed at any time), so I would not worry about buying from an authorized Marriott reseller.

Most of the Spicebush and Swallowtail units are dual affiliated with II and RCI. Harbour Point is only affiliated with II. Depositing any of the three weeks with II will get you a bonus week. I have had great success using bonus weeks to get great trades to other Marriotts. All three will have great trading power in either system.

For a much more complete set of strategies, consider joining TUG . You can access the bulletin board for free, but most folks find the advice so useful and the resort reviews and advice columns are so helpful that they shell out the $15 for membership.

BTW, I agree with Dean when he asserts that you should be careful how you use your DVC membership. Generally, it is MUCH cheaper to own other timeshare primarily for trading. DVC is a great trader but it is also very expensive. It can't be beat for using at WDW. I believe that is part of what he means when he says it is a great value if used appropriately. It is not a great value if you routinely use it to trade into other non-DVC resorts that could be had using much cheaper weeks (coastal beach weeks or ski weeks).

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by stlrod
On Dean's Comment, "DVC can be a great value," I agree wholeheartedly and probably would omit the "if use appropriately."

If you use it just for long weekends, your cost will be significantly more than if you just paid cash, even at rack rates. Also, in many instances, DC and the like are more expensive in the long run than paying cash. As Greg notes, using DVC for exchanging routinely can be an inefficient use of points.

Remember I've stated before that most of my discussions in this line are directed at those that haven't decided how to use their points or haven't yet bought. If one has "paid for their vacation and that's how their going to use their points", that's ok. I'm not telling anyone they shouldn't do anything, just trying to get them to think about it and realize there are alternatives.

DVC members doe get some discounts but unlike Marriott, it's variable and less common now days to get room discounts.

 

[stlrod]

Dean, I understand the weekday use and pay cash for kid on cruise, etc. By saying I owuold have omitted the last couple of words, I meant that I can't imagine an inapprpriate use of DVC. If somebody want to spend their points on weekends, nmore power to them as you recoognized.

 

[Joeblack]

I don't have as much experience as Dean in the Timeshares business. I know the Rewards Program was the BASIC reason why I bought from Marriott. When I bought, I received a 420.000 points "gift" WIth it, I exchanged for 1 week at London's County Hall Hotel, the Champs Elysees Paris Marriott (which is a 500/night hotel) and 3 nights at the Amsterdam Marriott (The first two were absolutely AMAZING). I also got 4 plane tickets (I used 2 and got 120.000 miles in United to use whenever I want). Finally I got 2 weeks of car rental (they are not offered anymore in the rewards program), which I reverted back to points. I ended up using 390.000 points. I estimate the total value of the gift in about $7000 - $9000.

Now, with the new schedule of points, let's look at the coveted Maui destination. Let's assume you deposit your 2 weeks and receive 210.000 points (my case, with a platinum and a gold week). Using 200.000 points, I can get a travel package that gives me 2 tickets to Hawaii and 1 week at the Maui Marriott Resort and Ocean Club. I think that there is value there from what I have heard about Maui. OF course, you can stretch your points a whole lot more by traveling to farther destinations like Japan.

I am not in to sell Marriott. i am just sharing my experience with anyone that might be interested. With DVC, I am just as happy. So happy in fact that I added on at WLV and will most likely add-on at BCV when they open. I think that securing your stay in WDW is priceless and that there is not a more convenient way to do so.

 

[stlrod]

JoeBlack, I used mine at County Hall and Paris Marriott as well.

 

[Diznut84]

Joeblack, for purposes of comparison will you share with us what those weeks would currently cost from the developer as well as the maintenance fees and Marriott rewards conversion fees?

Thanks!

 

[timeshare shopper]

Thanks for all the great info. I'm now even more convinced that Marriott is the way to go now and possibly DVC in the future. If I go that way, would anyone recommend which Marriott to get now? I hear some of you saying a Hilton Head one in the summer. Then I could possibly get a DVC later.
Thanks!

 

[Diznut84]

I would strongly recommend that you go to the TUG bulletin boards. They will save you a ton of money (and time)! There is a separate Marriott board where your question would be more appropriate...

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by Joeblack
I think that there is value there from what I have heard about Maui. OF course, you can stretch your points a whole lot more by traveling to farther destinations like Japan.

I am not in to sell Marriott. i am just sharing my experience with anyone that might be interested. With DVC, I am just as happy. So happy in fact that I added on at WLV and will most likely add-on at BCV when they open. I think that securing your stay in WDW is priceless and that there is not a more convenient way to do so.

Joe, there is value in the system used appropriately. I'd put a value of your options at around $6-7K but that doesn't matter. I'm assuming you're talking a gold and Platinum 2 BR at Maui. Total price for Oceanfront, what, about $45-50,000. Yearly fees I'm guessing around $17-1800 without subsidy. Then a $104 fee for each unit to trade for points and trading both units in a year gets you enough points for a trip to Japan for 2 adults with hotel and a few points left over, maybe. Lost income from the purchase along with interest if financed at say an average of 10%, less if you didn't finance and that's another $4-5000 per year that you could have used for something.

Maybe you wanted Maui Gold and Platinum and plan on going most years and it was worth it to you. If you're happy, so am I. I just don't want these people on the board thinking that the Marriott rewards points is a feasible option for most people unless they are going to buy at a certain resort anyway AND it's not available for a reasonable price from Marriott. And they must travel to the type of places you mention on a fairly routine basis to make it worthwhile. The other option is if you had another pretty substantial source of points to add to your timeshare purchases. Any way you stack it, it's still a frequent flier type program with all of the good and bad things that go with it and it's taken a significant dive in value in the last 6 months.

The exact prices for the above comparisons are rough estimates and I'm sure you can correct based on the actual figures, unit size and type you purchased, etc.

 

[Joeblack]

Very interesting thread. GThorson: No problem. OK. I own at Ocean Pointe in Palm Beach Shores. I bought in '98 and paid around 28.000 for 1 platinum and 1 gold week. The accomodations are 2 bedroom ocean-front suites and they accomodate 8 people comfortably. Dues are about $700/week per year. Like I said, I received a "gift" that, IMHO brought down the price I paid and I can say that the quality of everything was outstanding. This year I deposited my 2 weeks in Interval a friday, requested 1 week in Hilton Head Grande Ocean and 1 week Ft. lauderdale Beach Towers , back to back, in July (the highest season). I expected to be in a waitlist for a few months but I was pleasantly surprised to receive a confirmation the following Tuesday. Maybe I got lucky. It was my first experience exchanging through Interval, but I guess that MVCI owners do have preference. It reinforced my satisfaction with my investment. After I received confirmation I called DVC and reserved 5 days at WLV in a 2 BR. I can't wait for next July. It will be a blast!!

I can say nothing less about DVC. I am in love witht he BWV and i am sure I will also love WLV. I had the luck of staying in OKW and it was every bit as awesome as any other DVC resort. Like I said before, if I had to pick between MVC and DVC I really wouldn't be able to. i am lucky enough to own at both and so ffar, I am very satisfied with them.

 

[Diznut84]

Sounds like a great vacation! My sister also owns at Ocean Pointe and has had modest success with trading. You scored a great trade with Grande Ocean in July! As I've indicated in several other threads, an individual's timeshare portfolio will be reflective of their style and resources. As a woefully underpaid college professor, I have far fewer resources...

If you can afford to own the world's best resorts (Maui Marriott, Royal Sands, etc.) and it is your highest priority to always stay in other similar properties, owning at these resort works splendidly. In the case of DVC (some of the world's GREATEST resorts), there is, in my opinion, no substitute for owning.

For me, I just simply want to stay in the world's best resorts and get into them as cheaply as possible. To put it in the most favorable light, I am "value-oriented". If one can afford to own top Marriotts to trade, all the power to them! For me, I'd have to settle for owning the less expensive Marriotts (see the list earlier in this thread) and trying to exchange into the top Marriotts or other great resorts. Summer Hilton Head weeks would be quite successful at landing these trades, but certainly less successful than Maui weeks...

Thanks for sharing your info!

 

[PKS44]

As I understand it- the Marriott Rewards program is only for purchases from Marriott...no resales (unless from Marriott) and thus more expensive (almost double??) what resales are for the same property?

Is this correct?

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by PKS44
As I understand it- the Marriott Rewards program is only for purchases from Marriott...no resales (unless from Marriott) and thus more expensive (almost double??) what resales are for the same property?

Is this correct?

Pretty much my understanding and experience. I'd say on average about 60-70% but depends on the property, week, etc.