Narrowing down college choices

[mjkacmom]

Why? For most degrees, the college you attend really doesn't make a difference, especially after you get your first job. Employers simply want to know if you can do the work.

Plus, if med or law school are a possibility, going to a college where you can end up with a higher GPA is recommended.

 

[kdonnel]

Regarding the dual credit (and AP/IB) classes. There's a "medium" sized college in our town. One of the parents we're friends with works at the college and she was telling us that so many kids are starting college as sophomores (because they have so many DC/AP/IB credits) but they're not adjusting well to college life. They're not "mentally" prepared. I agree that seems strange, it's just eliminating one year, I'm just relying what she told us.

It is of course going to vary from child to child but both of my kids thoroughly enjoyed their dual enrollment time in high school and had no issues transitioning to college.

My daughter fell under the old rules that allowed her to take just the classes she needed for graduation. That meant each semester she took two at high school and one at the college. An extremely light load that gave her a spectacular high school senior year.

The rules had changed by the time my son was the correct age. Under the new rules you have to take a full load at the high school if you only take a partial load at the college, or you could take a full load at the college. He opted for the full college experience which turned out to be a great choice due to covid. While the public schools remained hybrid and heavily modified due to covid, the college he attended was basically normal with the addition of masks in class.

In both cases the classes they took at the college only kept them on track for a 4 year college experience. Their college friends who did not do dual enrollment needed to take summer classes or go an extra semester or two to graduate.

Four year degrees have apparently morphed into 4+ year degrees.

 

[VandVsmama]

Such good advice!! My son and I couldn't believe it on a college tour when one of the mom's kept asking questions. She wanted to know about the nutrition and calorie counts of food available in the cafeteria, the gym where her daughter could exercise, etc. My son and I were just dying for the poor girl because not only was she talking and asking tons of questions (we never saw another parent ask more than maybe ONE applicable question, most parents clearly let their child lead the day) but she was clearly weirdly obsessive about the weight and fitness of her daughter. The daughter didn't say a word, except an exasperated "mom!". Sad.

Even my DH, who is very smart but doesn't always get social cues, went on one tour and randomly asked if all kids came with their own computers. (A weird question to ask when even HE took his own computer to college 30 years earlier!) The guide spent the rest of the tour pointing out all the resources for kids without computers. My son and I were dying of the ridiculousness of it all! That confused guide thought this kid is planning on showing up without a laptop or chrome book or anything. We made it a point to ban him from talking at the next tour!

On one tour we went on last fall, a mom from San Diego (how do I know she was from San Diego? She announced it to all of us) snarkily asked, “So do they actually have scholarships for everybody or is it all based on your skin color?”

San Diego Mom’s DD was mortified and said, “Mooommmm!” The poor tour guide didn’t know how to handle that one. Tour guide was brand new and very green and a little timid. She looked like she thought San Diego Mom would eat her for lunch. All of the others in the group looked at San Diego Mom like she was an idiot. Of course, ALMOST ALL the college’s scholarships are NOT race based. Duh. It’s all on the website.

I threw an easy question at the tour guide and asked her about what her post-freshman year summer abroad program was like, did she enjoy it, etc. (the school had some special study abroad programs that only honors students could go on and this was an honors college tour)

Later on, San Diego Mom also asked an idiot question about campus crime and “all the shootings recently on campus” and “ALL of the homeless” (um, what are you talking about?) Another parent said to her, “Oh please, just look at the campus crime reports. It’s totally fine. If you think the homeless downtown is all that bad, you should step outside of suburbia there in San Diego once in awhile because you can’t walk 20’ there without pratically getting hit up for money. You really should get out more.”

San Diego Mom didn’t say anything else after that.

 

[kdonnel]

My daughter's only criteria for picking her college was where are most of my friends going? It seemed as valid as any other criteria. She has since graduated and has a job in her degree field. She has said though that part of her wishes she had gone to the same school as my son because she is jealous of some of the activities he has done that were not at her college.

My son didn't get serious about where he wanted to attend college until it was too late to attend his first choice. While he had the SAT score, his 3.8 GPA was just not enough. He got accepted but with deferred enrollment. He was guaranteed acceptance after he completed a year elsewhere. He ended up having such a great time his first year at his second choice that he has never looked back and wanted to change schools.

Make sure to include the social aspect in the college choices. It can be as important if not more important than the academic criteria. If your child is not happy at the school, the work is going to be infinitely harder. Having some familiar faces at the college that first year can really help.

 

[TwoMisfits]

It is of course going to vary from child to child but both of my kids thoroughly enjoyed their dual enrollment time in high school and had no issues transitioning to college.

My daughter fell under the old rules that allowed her to take just the classes she needed for graduation. That meant each semester she took two at high school and one at the college. An extremely light load that gave her a spectacular high school senior year.

The rules had changed by the time my son was the correct age. Under the new rules you have to take a full load at the high school if you only take a partial load at the college, or you could take a full load at the college. He opted for the full college experience which turned out to be a great choice due to covid. While the public schools remained hybrid and heavily modified due to covid, the college he attended was basically normal with the addition of masks in class.

In both cases the classes they took at the college only kept them on track for a 4 year college experience. Their college friends who did not do dual enrollment needed to take summer classes or go an extra semester or two to graduate.

Four year degrees have apparently morphed into 4+ year degrees.

This is also true. A lot of state schools make you pay more (per credit cost) for full tuition after you exceed 15 credits in a semester. So, you either pay more than 4 years tuition in 4 years, or you take summer classes and pay that extra semester tuition (or you come in with DE credits, which my 1st 2 will do - one had 24, the next will have 12-15) - those credits should be enough to have both graduate on time (even though my oldest did have to do 16 credits this semester, but she is also getting a Music minor, so that couldn't be avoided)...

 

[mjkacmom]

This is also true. A lot of state schools make you pay more (per credit cost) for full tuition after you exceed 15 credits in a semester. So, you either pay more than 4 years tuition in 4 years, or you take summer classes and pay that extra semester tuition (or you come in with DE credits, which my 1st 2 will do - one had 24, the next will have 12-15) - those credits should be enough to have both graduate on time (even though my oldest did have to do 16 credits this semester, but she is also getting a Music minor, so that couldn't be avoided)...

That hadn’t been our experience at all at state schools (5). 12/15/18 credits are full time and cost the same, one of my kids is taking 19 this semester, and her university will allow 21 with permission. My 21 came in with a lot of AP/DE classes and graduated in 3 years, that was the plan for dd20 but she wants to take extra classes to prepare for actuary exams.

 

[TwoMisfits]

That hadn’t been our experience at all at state schools (5). 12/15/18 credits are full time and cost the same, one of my kids is taking 19 this semester, and her university will allow 21 with permission. My 21 came in with a lot of AP/DE classes and graduated in 3 years, that was the plan for dd20 but she wants to take extra classes to prepare for actuary exams.

It is most common in states that have 529 plans that are full tuition paying vs just savings for tuition. Just like the rise in fees, this is a way those schools could keep their funding at levels they wanted...

 

[sam_gordon]

In both cases the classes they took at the college only kept them on track for a 4 year college experience. Their college friends who did not do dual enrollment needed to take summer classes or go an extra semester or two to graduate.

That's poor planning on the students and advisors part IMO. I believe most schools require 120 credit hours to graduate. To finish in 4 years, that's 30 hours/year or 15 hours/semester. That's what you need to AVERAGE. Since 12 hours is the "normal"(?) requirement to be considered full time, how many students just went with the 12 hours? Do that for a couple of semesters and you either need to crank up to 18 or do extra semesters.

Yes, I think DC/AP/IB helps, I was just relaying what we were told by someone who works in a college. They weren't saying not to take them, but maybe not do so much that you've "overstepped" your comfort zone when you get to college.

The local HS extended DC so Juniors can take 3-4(?) classes each semester. Youngest DD is taking two. So if she has four classes Junior year and four classes senior year, she'd be a 2nd semester Freshman (assuming everything transfers over) walking onto campus. Good for the parents (less money to college). Possibly good for the student (not as much debt and start working in your field earlier).

 

[barkley]

While IEPs may not follow students out of high school, 504 is a section of ADA and every college/university that accepts federal funds (Stafford loans, anyone?) must abide by the ADA.

when students enter college IDEA no longer provides protections for those who have been receiving services. college students can still receive accommodations under section 504 of the ADA, but it is at the discretion of the disability services director. it is important to understand that upon entering college, IDEA no longer applies. the familiar IEP, and all the protection it provides, disappears when students cross the threshold to higher education.

even among colleges that accept federal funds, there are variations in the accommodations a student may receive. that’s because the decision, made by the disabilities director, is subjective. therefore, it behooves parents and students to be vigilant. the differences are vast. the school selected should be, at the very least, learning disability friendly. if professors show impatience with students, or the disabilities service office isn’t welcoming, consider crossing a potential college off your list.

i brought up this issue b/c many if not most kids on the spectrum that have been fortunate enough to receive supportive services and accommodations in any of their k-12 years frequently do not realize to the extent they are receiving accommodations their classmates are not. if you grow up receiving it or it's requested and you receive it leads you to believe it's just a normal part of everyone's day to day educational experience and not something your parents (myself included) had to fight to the hilt to secure for you, that it's the way everyone is taught/learns and will continue through any future academic setting. also-upon entering college, teens need to be able to fluently articulate their disability and its effects. they also must be proficient at self advocacy which (again based on my own experience plus what was shared by parents of boys on varying ends of the spectrum) is not always one of their skills let alone one of the strongest.

prior to the transition, students and parents should be aware of the changes that lie ahead to avoid unforeseen problems when embarking on this new educational chapter. i have seen teens excited about attending college only to find that the experience is nothing like what they anticipated. in a neuro typical teen it can be a tremendous time of self reflection and adjustments on their part, for a teen on the spectrum it can (for lack of a better term) 'flip a switch' that colors their opinion of college such that they will never willingly step foot on a college campus again.

 

[mrs. magoo]

Regarding the dual credit (and AP/IB) classes. There's a "medium" sized college in our town. One of the parents we're friends with works at the college and she was telling us that so many kids are starting college as sophomores (because they have so many DC/AP/IB credits) but they're not adjusting well to college life. They're not "mentally" prepared. I agree that seems strange, it's just eliminating one year, I'm just relying what she told us.

Much of this can be traced back to the pandemic. These kids all have experienced interrupted education and are having a more difficult time transitioning. It is not just kids who have taken APs or Dual credit. My daughter who is a senior this year had her first year interrupted and when they returned to school in the fall there were so many rules that it just made the traditional college experience difficult. She struggled socially because she is such a rule follower (she is on the spectrum). This is a direct result of the pandemic. My youngest son who is now a sophomore has struggled as well. We live in NY and he did only attended school 2 days a week for his entire senior year. The pandemic can be a huge factor in kids ability to adjust and be prepared for school. It was my number one question to every coach when my son was being recruited - How were schools going to address the issues these kids were going to have?

 

[sam_gordon]

Much of this can be traced back to the pandemic. These kids all have experienced interrupted education and are having a more difficult time transitioning. It is not just kids who have taken APs or Dual credit. My daughter who is a senior this year had her first year interrupted and when they returned to school in the fall there were so many rules that it just made the traditional college experience difficult. She struggled socially because she is such a rule follower (she is on the spectrum). This is a direct result of the pandemic. My youngest son who is now a sophomore has struggled as well. We live in NY and he did only attended school 2 days a week for his entire senior year. The pandemic can be a huge factor in kids ability to adjust and be prepared for school. It was my number one question to every coach when my son was being recruited - How were schools going to address the issues these kids were going to have?

Maybe. I didn't get that specific to ask her. But simply based on the conversation, I didn't take it as a one or two year thing, but something she's been seeing for a while.

 

[kdonnel]

That's poor planning on the students and advisors part IMO. I believe most schools require 120 credit hours to graduate. To finish in 4 years, that's 30 hours/year or 15 hours/semester. That's what you need to AVERAGE. Since 12 hours is the "normal"(?) requirement to be considered full time, how many students just went with the 12 hours? Do that for a couple of semesters and you either need to crank up to 18 or do extra semesters.

Yes, I think DC/AP/IB helps, I was just relaying what we were told by someone who works in a college. They weren't saying not to take them, but maybe not do so much that you've "overstepped" your comfort zone when you get to college.

The local HS extended DC so Juniors can take 3-4(?) classes each semester. Youngest DD is taking two. So if she has four classes Junior year and four classes senior year, she'd be a 2nd semester Freshman (assuming everything transfers over) walking onto campus. Good for the parents (less money to college). Possibly good for the student (not as much debt and start working in your field earlier).

My son is pursuing a technical oriented degree. My daughters boyfriend is doing the same. Their degrees while being awarded as a BS require 140+ hours. My son will be able to graduate in 4 years only because of all his AP and dual enrollment credit.

Even my daughters teaching degree required 124 hours. That can be difficult to accomplish in 4 years, but certainly not impossible, if you arrive at college with 0 hours of credit. Especially if there are prerequisite requirements only offered at certain times for series of classes that only start certain semesters. One misstep and you have there for another year.

I saw dual enrollment as a great transition to college. It was a year where my kids had more supervision than they would while away at college but still had some of the freedom they would have while away. They were able to learn how to manage their time when not in a high school environment.

It also allowed my kids to take some of the basic required classes like English 1101 and 1102 at a community level college where they might be easier or in smaller classes.

 

[sam_gordon]

My son is pursuing a technical oriented degree. My daughters boyfriend is doing the same. Their degrees while being awarded as a BS require 140+ hours. My son will be able to graduate in 4 years only because of all his AP and dual enrollment credit.

Even my daughters teaching degree required 124 hours. That can be difficult to accomplish in 4 years, but certainly not impossible, if you arrive at college with 0 hours of credit. Especially if there are prerequisite requirements only offered at certain times for series of classes that only start certain semesters. One misstep and you have there for another year.

I saw dual enrollment as a great transition to college. It was a year where my kids had more supervision than they would while away at college but still had some of the freedom they would have while away. They were able to learn how to manage their time when not in a high school environment.

It also allowed my kids to take some of the basic required classes like English 1101 and 1102 at a community level college where they might be easier or in smaller classes.

All I did was relay a conversation I had with someone who works at a college. I was not saying families should stay away from dual enrollment. All three of my kids did dual credit to some extent.

 

[QueenIsabella]

We look at AP/IB/dual enrollment (what it's called here) a little differently. While a student could, theoretically, graduate college early with these things, we see it providing more of a cushion for a 4-year program.

Our oldest did a few AP classes, and was able to do a semester abroad. Interestingly, she didn't take AP Spanish, but ended up testing into a higher level of college Spanish than she would have gotten into with AP.

DD19 did the IB programme, so she's technically a semester ahead. She's using the extra "room" to double major.

DS16 is doing dual enrollment. He's also planning on an engineering degree--a field notorious for taking 4+ years. He's only taking calculus last/this semester (here, you can take up to 2 courses/semester as a junior). I don't if he has next year completely fleshed out, but he wants to take Conversational French and a Geography class. He loves Geography, and will be the dweeb in the front row, reminding the teacher that there was supposed to be a quiz today. Whatever HS classes he takes will be honors/AP classes (probably Honors English--he won't like AP, too much work).

In general, we're big fans of Maria Montessori--"follow the child". Obviously, we provide guidance, but it's their lives.

 

[DLgal]

when students enter college IDEA no longer provides protections for those who have been receiving services. college students can still receive accommodations under section 504 of the ADA, but it is at the discretion of the disability services director. it is important to understand that upon entering college, IDEA no longer applies. the familiar IEP, and all the protection it provides, disappears when students cross the threshold to higher education.

even among colleges that accept federal funds, there are variations in the accommodations a student may receive. that’s because the decision, made by the disabilities director, is subjective. therefore, it behooves parents and students to be vigilant. the differences are vast. the school selected should be, at the very least, learning disability friendly. if professors show impatience with students, or the disabilities service office isn’t welcoming, consider crossing a potential college off your list.

i brought up this issue b/c many if not most kids on the spectrum that have been fortunate enough to receive supportive services and accommodations in any of their k-12 years frequently do not realize to the extent they are receiving accommodations their classmates are not. if you grow up receiving it or it's requested and you receive it leads you to believe it's just a normal part of everyone's day to day educational experience and not something your parents (myself included) had to fight to the hilt to secure for you, that it's the way everyone is taught/learns and will continue through any future academic setting. also-upon entering college, teens need to be able to fluently articulate their disability and its effects. they also must be proficient at self advocacy which (again based on my own experience plus what was shared by parents of boys on varying ends of the spectrum) is not always one of their skills let alone one of the strongest.

prior to the transition, students and parents should be aware of the changes that lie ahead to avoid unforeseen problems when embarking on this new educational chapter. i have seen teens excited about attending college only to find that the experience is nothing like what they anticipated. in a neuro typical teen it can be a tremendous time of self reflection and adjustments on their part, for a teen on the spectrum it can (for lack of a better term) 'flip a switch' that colors their opinion of college such that they will never willingly step foot on a college campus again.

The bolded is the most important thing in this entire thread. It is what has kept my 18 year old son from being able to even get a part time job.

OP, do not underestimate how important this skill set is when going away to college. It sounds like your son is able to communicate well enough, but as parents, we find ourselves talking for our disabled kids a lot, and it can be eye opening to leave them to their own devices and realize how little they are able to say for themselves.

Does your son currently sit in and participate in his IEP meetings? If so, that's a great start! If not, I highly suggest you have him do that and try and see how much he can speak on his own behalf and be part of developing his own goals. This will be good practice for when he needs to advocate for his needs while away at school.

 

[sk!mom]

Our kids High School College counselors preached that a University isn't going to admit a student and then not work to make it within their financial reach. That certainly was what happened with our kids and their friends. It might be grants, it might be scholarships, it might be work-study, it might be loans, but the University WILL find a way to make it financially possible. Otherwise, they have wasted their time admitted your child.
And student loan debit is a hot topic, but some of the says people use the money isn't smart. I know kids who have debit that is greater than their tuition, books, room and board cost. And my daughter's best friend finished her Masters last semester, but her grant requires her to work and be a full time student for the entire academic year, so she is still there, taking garbage classes, to satisfy that requirement when she could be out in the working world paying off her debt.

Not sure how long ago your kids were in college but in my experience, the college assumes that if you applied, you can afford it.

That being said, certainly the financial aid office will direct you to loans and assist with applying for scholarships. They in no way “Will find a way to make it financially possible.”

To the OP, since it sounds like you have finances lined out, I’d choose an area and then have your DS do a little internet research to narrow down to a few he thinks look interesting.

I’d also go back to the paid counselor and ask him to narrow it to the best fits. I’m assuming that he has met with your student and is aware of his wants and needs.

 

[mjkacmom]

The bolded is the most important thing in this entire thread. It is what has kept my 18 year old son from being able to even get a part time job.

OP, do not underestimate how important this skill set is when going away to college. It sounds like your son is able to communicate well enough, but as parents, we find ourselves talking for our disabled kids a lot, and it can be eye opening to leave them to their own devices and realize how little they are able to say for themselves.

Does your son currently sit in and participate in his IEP meetings? If so, that's a great start! If not, I highly suggest you have him do that and try and see how much he can speak on his own behalf and be part of developing his own goals. This will be good practice for when he needs to advocate for his needs while away at school.

I have a son who gets services at college for mental health issues, they need to advocate for themselves, the college won’t speak with me about anything (zoom made it easy for me to listen to discussions though).

 

[mom2rtk]

Four year degrees have apparently morphed into 4+ year degrees.

That hasn't been our experience. Although changing majors could certainly do that (thankfully ours didn't).

That's poor planning on the students and advisors part IMO. I believe most schools require 120 credit hours to graduate. To finish in 4 years, that's 30 hours/year or 15 hours/semester. That's what you need to AVERAGE. Since 12 hours is the "normal"(?) requirement to be considered full time, how many students just went with the 12 hours? Do that for a couple of semesters and you either need to crank up to 18 or do extra semesters.

Yes, I think DC/AP/IB helps, I was just relaying what we were told by someone who works in a college. They weren't saying not to take them, but maybe not do so much that you've "overstepped" your comfort zone when you get to college.

The local HS extended DC so Juniors can take 3-4(?) classes each semester. Youngest DD is taking two. So if she has four classes Junior year and four classes senior year, she'd be a 2nd semester Freshman (assuming everything transfers over) walking onto campus. Good for the parents (less money to college). Possibly good for the student (not as much debt and start working in your field earlier).

Our kids took some dual credit and AP courses, but didn't go all in trying to get as many as possible. Many classes are more rigorous taken at a 4 year school than they are in a high school classroom. And I wanted them to have a solid foundation heading into college. In some cases, they used their dual credit as an elective credit and repeated the course at the 4 year school. Both my Chemical Engineering son and my (graduating in May) Mechanical Engineering daughter will have graduated in 4 years.

 

[NotUrsula]

That's poor planning on the students and advisors part IMO. I believe most schools require 120 credit hours to graduate. To finish in 4 years, that's 30 hours/year or 15 hours/semester. That's what you need to AVERAGE. Since 12 hours is the "normal"(?) requirement to be considered full time, how many students just went with the 12 hours? Do that for a couple of semesters and you either need to crank up to 18 or do extra semesters.
[snip]

I've been working in academe for nearly 4 decades, and even at the beginning of that time, a 120 hour Bachelor's was a rarity. Now 130-136 is more common. DS needed 132 two years ago, and mine was 126 back in the Reagan administration. I did it in 3 calendar years for monetary reasons, so I took 6 each summer (including the one right after HS) and 18 most of the rest. At my state flagship, 6 hrs was FT in summer, 12 was FT during F/S, and anything over and above that was essentially free, so you bet I took the heaviest load I was allowed to.

FWIW, I also started my second year of college as a junior. (We had no dual-enrollment classes, but I used CLEP to skip 16 hours of Freshman survey courses, plus the 6 I took over that summer, brought me almost over the threshold into Sophomore territory by my first fall, but not quite. However, because it was my first year out of high school I had to live by the Freshman social rules in my dorm, which back then were much more restrictive. On paper, I skipped my sophomore year instead of my freshman year.)

The issue with the average 18 yo who comes to campus with a lot of credit under his or her belt and starts having difficulty is usually a social one; they skipped the softball Freshman surveys and are now into the more difficult meat of the major, but for most it is their first taste of total freedom from parental supervision. That goes to their heads, and they spend too much time on social pursuits &/or working for money to fuel their newfound freedom, and not time enough on classwork. Not only that, but many of the people they meet in class are 2-3 years older, and there's a pretty wide maturity gap between 18 and 20-21, so if they don't live with other first-year students, they can end up isolated because their older classmates already have established social circles where teens are not really welcome.

 

[tvguy]

Not sure how long ago your kids were in college but in my experience, the college assumes that if you applied, you can afford it.

That being said, certainly the financial aid office will direct you to loans and assist with applying for scholarships. They in no way “Will find a way to make it financially possible.”

To the OP, since it sounds like you have finances lined out, I’d choose an area and then have your DS do a little internet research to narrow down to a few he thinks look interesting.

I’d also go back to the paid counselor and ask him to narrow it to the best fits. I’m assuming that he has met with your student and is aware of his wants and needs.

My kids graduated in 2011 and 2015. And their school College Counseling website still says Colleges will find a way for students they admit to pay for it. Granted, it may include both student and parent loans, not the outright grants and scholarships some would like. And that has been my experience with neighborhood kids who are in college now. That's why Colleges have financial aid departments.