New Definition of Rental Activity?

[Bearval]

Maybe, but I'm inclined to believe that they will still look for patterns / volume and a few rentals using the internet to advertise won't be an issue. If that isn't true, IMO, we will hear about it very soon.

It wouldn't surprise me if they reach out to the commercial sites that act as intermediaries and let them know that they can and will cancel any reservations they feel are a violation of DVC membership agreement. DVC would only have to cancel a few to have a massive impact on the commercial sites business model. Word would spread quickly that people traveled to WDW to find out they had no reservation. Sure, they will get reimbursed (may be get one of those coveted vouchers) but those points may now be useless to the owner with it being too late to bank or go into holding.

 

[Sandisw]

Woah. So anything rented over the internet is possibly prohibited?

But they said they don’t monitor online activity (ETA. Misread that) and do what they always have done…and have the power to do…and that is monitor each account for multiple reservations.

There is no real way to know just looking at one internet site who it is and I do not think they want to do that either.

My guess is that definition gives them just another point if they see a lot and someone has to explain that they are not in violation.

 

[kes601]

But they said they don’t monitor online activity and do what they always have done…and have the power to do…and that is monitor each account for multiple reservations.

Please note that we do observe the online activity and handle as necessary internally.

The email Bearval received back clearly states they do observe the online activity.

 

[Sandisw]

The email Bearval received back clearly states they do observe the online activity.

I misread that….sorry…still don’t think they would be monitoring individual postings.

Take the DIS boards,they have no idea who is posting….i still believe that they start with a membership that appears to be in violation, and then moght go to the next step.

Since that email was specifically a response to a question about brokers advertising, my guess would be that is what the mean.

Having said that, I do believe any owner Who is renting a lot of points, year after year, may find themselves in a position to have to discuss with DVC that they are not in violation. Because the email does say “pattern” and it’s hard to argue one or two occasilnaly over the internet is a pattern.

And, yes, I know DVc could just do what they want, and people have to fight…I don’t see that…if they are wanting to clamp down, it’s those business who have gotten around things because of DVCs own definition of what might trigger a review.

 

[mamaofsix]

But they said they don’t monitor online activity and do what they always have done…and have the power to do…and that is monitor each account for multiple reservations.

There is no real way to know just looking at one internet site who it is and I do not think they want to do that either.

My guess is that definition gives them just another point if they see a lot and someone has to explain that they are not in violation.

The email said they do monitor online activity.

 

[Sandisw]

The email said they do monitor online activity.

See response above…I misread… but, I believe it’s that the may montior when they see a violation and not that they are going through every Internet forum and trying to find who those owners are…

Of course, they are going to say that when an email is concerned about what the owners are seeing…that is different then thinking there are CMs, every day trying to match an offer for a reservation or points to the thousands of memberships out there.

 

[xdan0920]

Thank the lord. Whenever I sign into the Dis, and I get it, no shade here. Half the "new posts" are DVC listings. Something had to be done.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Take the DIS boards,they have no idea who is posting….i still believe that they start with a membership that appears to be in violation, and then moght go to the next step.

If it's a confirmed reservation, they sure could. If I go online and post that I have a Deluxe Studio at VGF, available from 10/31-11/02, 2024, it takes them zero time to find all of the reservations that match that criteria. Dump them all in a database, and at some point you'll see the membership numbers that pop up repeatedly (a "pattern"), versus the one-time data points.

Just posting points for rent would certainly be a more difficult process to monitor.

 

[Bearval]

If it's a confirmed reservation, they sure could. If I go online and post that I have a Deluxe Studio at VGF, available from 10/31-11/02, 2024, it takes them zero time to find all of the reservations that match that criteria. Dump them all in a database, and at some point you'll see the membership numbers that pop up repeatedly (a "pattern"), versus the one-time data points.

Just posting points for rent would certainly be a more difficult process to monitor.

I don't think in the response I received for my comment that DVC is going to go after an individual owner that is renting out only their points by themselves over the internet. I feel they will go after the commercial sites that owners use to find renters for their points is the target.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I don't think in the response I received for my comment that DVC is going to go after an individual owner that is renting out only their points by themselves over the internet. I feel they will go after the commercial sites that owners use to find renters for their points is the target.

I get that. I was responding to @Sandisw 's comment: "Take the DIS boards, they have no idea who is posting". With that I disagree: at least with confirmed reservations, they know exactly who is posting. Not saying they would go after the casual poster either renting out points or reservations, because we have the contractual right to do that, but they could if they wanted to (again, at least with regard to confirmed reservations, which are very easily identified).

 

[accm]

It wouldn't surprise me if they reach out to the commercial sites that act as intermediaries and let them know that they can and will cancel any reservations they feel are a violation of DVC membership agreement. DVC would only have to cancel a few to have a massive impact on the commercial sites business model. Word would spread quickly that people traveled to WDW to find out they had no reservation. Sure, they will get reimbursed (may be get one of those coveted vouchers) but those points may now be useless to the owner with it being too late to bank or go into holding.

Yes, especially if the reservation was booked using a CC, and the renter disputes the charge. At that point, the owner would have already been paid, so the broker would be the one loosing the money.

 

[Sandisw]

It wouldn't surprise me if they reach out to the commercial sites that act as intermediaries and let them know that they can and will cancel any reservations they feel are a violation of DVC membership agreement. DVC would only have to cancel a few to have a massive impact on the commercial sites business model. Word would spread quickly that people traveled to WDW to find out they had no reservation. Sure, they will get reimbursed (may be get one of those coveted vouchers) but those points may now be useless to the owner with it being too late to bank or go into holding.

I don’t see that. I see them them reaching out to owners of the memberships in question…with businesses and LLCs being at the top of that list.

Have you thought about following up with what level of advertising would be allowed under personal use?

That is what I would want to know. I mean I’d directly ask if I wanted to rent some points and secured it via the internet, and it was just one rentals how would that demonstrate a pattern?

 

[Sandisw]

If it's a confirmed reservation, they sure could. If I go online and post that I have a Deluxe Studio at VGF, available from 10/31-11/02, 2024, it takes them zero time to find all of the reservations that match that criteria. Dump them all in a database, and at some point you'll see the membership numbers that pop up repeatedly (a "pattern"), versus the one-time data points.

Just posting points for rent would certainly be a more difficult process to monitor.

I was referring to points for here because we don’t allow those and that it would be pretty hard to identify them.

And I still do not think they are going spend a lot of man hours searching all these memberships in hopes of identifying the casual owner who isn’t doing it against the rules.

But that is just my opinion.

 

[Bearval]

I don’t see that. I see them them reaching out to owners of the memberships in question…with businesses and LLCs being at the top of that list.

Have you thought about following up with what level of advertising would be allowed under personal use?

That is what I would want to know. I mean I’d directly ask if I wanted to rent some points and secured it via the internet, and it was just one rentals how would that demonstrate a pattern?

No I did not but that is a great suggestion.

 

[Bearval]

I don’t see that. I see them them reaching out to owners of the memberships in question…with businesses and LLCs being at the top of that list.

Have you thought about following up with what level of advertising would be allowed under personal use?

That is what I would want to know. I mean I’d directly ask if I wanted to rent some points and secured it via the internet, and it was just one rentals how would that demonstrate a pattern?

The reason I would not be surprised if they notify the commercial sites that act as intermediaries is because they only have a few to contact while you could be talking about hundreds if not more DVC members.

 

[Sandisw]

The reason I would not be surprised if they notify the commercial sites that act as intermediaries is because they only have a few to contact while you could be talking about hundreds if not more DVC members.

But they don’t have a contract with the companies…unless that company owns…and I don’t agree with the position that DVC is going to go after another business like that.

To me, if they want to begin stricter enforcement it starts with them going after the actual memberships in question.

If they do that, there is no need to take it that extra step.

 

[kilik64]

But they don’t have a contract with the companies…unless that company owns…and I don’t agree with the position that DVC is going to go after another business like that.

To me, if they want to begin stricter enforcement it starts with them going after the actual memberships in question.

If they do that, there is no need to take it that extra step.

All it takes is a few members renting being gone after and people showing up to no reservation for there to big a big change and drop off in people renting points.

Hey im looking to rent points is this a good idea? Nope, my cousin's friend's neighbor booked one and it was cancelled on them and they showed up to no room! Better to just book a normal hotel room, savings are NOT worth it! (hypothetical the facebook conversation)

Edit to clarify I meant members vs companies

 

[Sandisw]

All it takes is a few being gone after and people showing up to no reservation for there to big a big change and drop off in people renting points.

Hey im looking to rent points is this a good idea? Nope, my cousin's friend's neighbor booked one and it was cancelled on them and they showed up to no room! Better to just book a normal hotel room, savings are NOT worth it! (hypothetical the facebook conversation)

They can achieve that by going after the owners of the memberships. Easier, cleaneee, and potentially same effect.

They do not need to send letters to the businesses who facilitate it because as of right now, no every owner securing a rental this way is in violation.

Plus, if all those brokers are also in violation then they just need to send them letters about those memberships without even going after anyone else right away.

 

[kilik64]

They can achieve that by going after the owners of the memberships. Easier, cleaneee, and potentially same effect.

They do not need to send letters to the businesses who facilitate it because as of right now, no every owner securing a rental this way is in violation.

Plus, if all those brokers are also in violation then they just need to send them letters about those memberships without even going after anyone else right away.

Yea i meant hitting a few members with that. Would drive down rental demand real quick.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I was referring to points for here because we don’t allow those and that it would be pretty hard to identify them.

And I still do not think they are going spend a lot of man hours searching all these memberships in hopes of identifying the casual owner who isn’t doing it against the rules.

But that is just my opinion.

Again, as I said, it doesn't apply to people renting points or even members renting the odd casual confirmed reservation. I was simply pointing out that the blanket statement: "Take the DIS boards, they have no idea who is posting" wouldn't apply to a member renting a reservation on here, which most certainly does happen (in fact, there is one on the first page of the rental board as we speak) as those CAN be traced. I do agree that simply renting points cannot be traced.