Riviera Resale

[Sandisw]

Im doing a 1 bedroom next year as well. Though for just a few more points, I could do a 2 br standard....

Anyway, 2 studios vs 1 br... depends on the family. If you have tween-age kids, for example... then studios that aren’t near each other, might not be so great. But if traveling with your 19-year-old kids, separate studios might make everyone happier.
If you really need the kitchen... points for 1 br. If you really don’t use the kitchen anyway, 2 bathrooms might bring you more value.
So totally depends on the family. I just can imagine many families preferring the option of 2 studios. Especially if it’s bigger than a family of 4. (Yes, you CAN sleep 5... but that involves sharing a Murphy bed. With 2 studios, you can have 5 kids, each with their own bed).

If someone was going to go with 2 studios then for a few more points, like you said it’s a 2 bedroom., which would seem a better choice.

if someone is comfortable not being in the same room as their kids at night, it is certainly an option.

Bur the extra points for 1 bedroom s have always been a hard choice since in most cases it doesn’t give you more sleeping spaces.

Maybe RIV resale will come down in a few years enough that people buy so those 1 bedrooms stay popular!!

 

[havoc315]

If someone was going to go with 2 studios then for a few more points, like you said it’s a 2 bedroom.

Other than Poly, not seen much of that strategy but if someone is comfortable not being in the same room as their kids at night, it is certainly an option.

If the kids are 18-30 years old.... I'm guessing the parents would be comfortable with them having their own room. With a 50-year-contract, your kids aren't going to be minors forever.

But absolutely, as you said.... if someone was going with 2 studios, a few more points they could get a 2 bedroom. That's kind of the squeeze on one bedrooms.

Just using the low season at Riviera, options for a family of 4-5 people, weekly:
1 studio: 104
2 standard view studios: 208 -- 2x greater than a single studio -- sleeps up to 10 with 6 beds, 2 kitchenettes, 2 bathrooms
1 bedroom: 220 -- 2.11x greater than a single studio -- sleeps up to 5 with 3 beds, 1 full kitchen, 1 bathroom and W/D
2 bedroom: 291 -- 2.79x greater than a single studio - sleep up to 9, with 5 beds, 1 full kitchen, 2 bathrooms, and W/D

From a perspective of point per bed, point per occupancy and point per bathroom, the 1 bedroom is a total rip-off. Even from a price per square footage, 2 studios is a slightly better deal than a 1 bedroom. 2 BR and 2 studios are both better objective "values." Of course, the extra value of a 1 bedroom over 2 studios is a full kitchen and a W/D.

For next summer, I'm currently booked in a 1 bedroom preferred view. By my own breakdown, I'm tempted to just step up to a 2 bedroom standard view, for almost the same points. (only 14 more points to go from 1 BR preferred to 2 BR standard)

It's interesting that for cash rooms... the pricing is a bit different than by points:
I just priced out a week in September 2021:
Deluxe studio, average nightly (minus tax) -- $585
1 BR standard -- $843
1 BR preferred -- $925
2 BR standard -- $1344

So for simplicity, to take that cash rate, and convert it to weekday points, Sep 2021:
Deluxe studio: Getting $41 of value per point
1 BR standard: $28 per point
1 BR preferred: $25 per point
2 BR standard: $34 per point

So even using Disney's rack rate cash values, the 1 bedrooms are the worst value for points. Now, Disney is likely to eventually discount the rack rates..... So if they give a fairly typical 25% off rack rate, the 1 BR preferred at Riviera is giving a value of just $20 per point. Looking at many other times per year, there are times when a 1 BR preferred will only get you about $15 per point in value, compared to expected cash room prices.

 

[JETSDAD]

Dvc will not stop building new resorts. They have discovered a cash cow. Also dvc does not really care about the resale market in my opinion. They do not buy back to keep resale high but they buy back to offer the contracts to buyers at full price. I am still trying to see if they will allow RIV to trade into new resorts if not then any resale there, even 50 points may not be worth it for me. Still on the fence for 50 points direct but again if we want to sell the resale market scares me. I do not want to buy without staying there first.

The guide I spoke with made it sound like RIV resale owners would be able to stay at the new resorts with resale points.

Riviera resale will only be able to stay at Riviera, not any new resorts. From the Public Offering:

"Club Members who purchase an Ownership Interest at Riviera Resort from a third party other than directly from DVD or other seller approved by DVD, are not permitted to convert their Riviera Resort Home Resort Vacation Points related to that Ownership Interest to DVC Vacation Points for the purpose of reserving Vacation Homes at any other DVC Resort, including any future DVC Resorts, through the DVC Reservation Component. Purchasers should refer to the DVC Resort Agreement for details."

 

[Sandisw]

Riviera resale will only be able to stay at Riviera, not any new resorts. From the Public Offering:

"Club Members who purchase an Ownership Interest at Riviera Resort from a third party other than directly from DVD or other seller approved by DVD, are not permitted to convert their Riviera Resort Home Resort Vacation Points related to that Ownership Interest to DVC Vacation Points for the purpose of reserving Vacation Homes at any other DVC Resort, including any future DVC Resorts, through the DVC Reservation Component. Purchasers should refer to the DVC Resort Agreement for details."

However, they also have a document that all owners sign that allows them to amend this statement so it can change.

I’m waiting to hear from my guide to see if it’s been changed but until I see it, I agree, that line says it all!

ETA: Turns out it is indeed not true, RIV resale is still only good at RIV.

 

[Bing Showei]

Bing Showei: So I heard something about resale at Riviera only staying at Riviera?

Guide: Oh, right. The dreaded "resale restrictions."

BS: Why the air quotes? Anyway, yeah. I hear Riviera is that only resort where if I buy it resale I can stay only at Riviera.

G: Yes, that is true...

The guide looks around as if checking to see if anyone is listening.

G: ... for now.

Then leans in and near whispers...

G: But in the future, it'll be all future resorts as well.

Guide's eyes widen and there's a broad smile.

BS: Wait, what? I can stay at-

G: In the future, Riviera will not be the only home resort where resale owners will have to stay. It'll be all future resorts as well.

BS: Just to clarify, when you say "it" you're saying-

Guide reaches across the table and pushes his finger to BS's lips.

Guide: Hush. Let's not ruin the moment. Just let the magic wash over you.

 

[TinkB278]

Bing Showei: So I heard something about resale at Riviera only staying at Riviera?

Guide: Oh, right. The dreaded "resale restrictions."

BS: Why the air quotes? Anyway, yeah. I hear Riviera is that only resort where if I buy it resale I can stay only at Riviera.

G: Yes, that is true...

The guide looks around as if checking to see if anyone is listening.

G: ... for now.

Then leans in and near whispers...

G: But in the future, it'll be all future resorts as well.

Guide's eyes widen and there's a broad smile.

BS: Wait, what? I can stay at-

G: In the future, Riviera will not be the only home resort where resale owners will have to stay. It'll be all future resorts as well.

BS: Just to clarify, when you say "it" you're saying-

Guide reaches across the table and pushes his finger to BS's lips.

Guide: Hush. Let's not ruin the moment. Just let the magic wash over you.

Is this true??

 

[Turn the Page]

If the kids are 18-30 years old.... I'm guessing the parents would be comfortable with them having their own room. With a 50-year-contract, your kids aren't going to be minors forever.

But absolutely, as you said.... if someone was going with 2 studios, a few more points they could get a 2 bedroom. That's kind of the squeeze on one bedrooms.

Just using the low season at Riviera, options for a family of 4-5 people, weekly:
1 studio: 104
2 standard view studios: 208 -- 2x greater than a single studio -- sleeps up to 10 with 6 beds, 2 kitchenettes, 2 bathrooms
1 bedroom: 220 -- 2.11x greater than a single studio -- sleeps up to 5 with 3 beds, 1 full kitchen, 1 bathroom and W/D
2 bedroom: 291 -- 2.79x greater than a single studio - sleep up to 9, with 5 beds, 1 full kitchen, 2 bathrooms, and W/D

From a perspective of point per bed, point per occupancy and point per bathroom, the 1 bedroom is a total rip-off. Even from a price per square footage, 2 studios is a slightly better deal than a 1 bedroom. 2 BR and 2 studios are both better objective "values." Of course, the extra value of a 1 bedroom over 2 studios is a full kitchen and a W/D.

For next summer, I'm currently booked in a 1 bedroom preferred view. By my own breakdown, I'm tempted to just step up to a 2 bedroom standard view, for almost the same points. (only 14 more points to go from 1 BR preferred to 2 BR standard)

It's interesting that for cash rooms... the pricing is a bit different than by points:
I just priced out a week in September 2021:
Deluxe studio, average nightly (minus tax) -- $585
1 BR standard -- $843
1 BR preferred -- $925
2 BR standard -- $1344

So for simplicity, to take that cash rate, and convert it to weekday points, Sep 2021:
Deluxe studio: Getting $41 of value per point
1 BR standard: $28 per point
1 BR preferred: $25 per point
2 BR standard: $34 per point

So even using Disney's rack rate cash values, the 1 bedrooms are the worst value for points. Now, Disney is likely to eventually discount the rack rates..... So if they give a fairly typical 25% off rack rate, the 1 BR preferred at Riviera is giving a value of just $20 per point. Looking at many other times per year, there are times when a 1 BR preferred will only get you about $15 per point in value, compared to expected cash room prices.

Eh, I don't know. The 1 bedroom is a lot of points but I'm not sure I agree with your assessment. The full kitchen in the 1 bedroom offers the potential to save a ton of money in food costs. True, not everyone chooses to go that route but i'm not real sure what the purpose of comparing the cost of 2 studios to a 1 bedroom is.

 

[Lorana]

Eh, I don't know. The 1 bedroom is a lot of points but I'm not sure I agree with your assessment. The full kitchen in the 1 bedroom offers the potential to save a ton of money in food costs. True, not everyone chooses to go that route but i'm not real sure what the purpose of comparing the cost of 2 studios to a 1 bedroom is.

Honestly, when we book 1 BRs this is part of our reason for doing so -- (1) separate room for us as parents, with the kids in the pull-outs in the living room, and (2) kitchen to save on food costs - which, with 2 teenage boys, can be significant.

That said, we are often tempted to up-sell ourselves to the 2BR because in many resorts, the difference in points is not really all that much!

 

[Turn the Page]

Honestly, when we book 1 BRs this is part of our reason for doing so -- (1) separate room for us as parents, with the kids in the pull-outs in the living room, and (2) kitchen to save on food costs - which, with 2 teenage boys, can be significant.

That said, we are often tempted to up-sell ourselves to the 2BR because in many resorts, the difference in points is not really all that much!

US too. We have most of our meals in the villa. It's cheaper, faster, and we make meals I know my kids will eat. Not everyone likes to do this of course but it works best for us.

 

[Bing Showei]

Is this true??

In the scenario above, what the guide says is factually true. But one's likely interpretation of what's being said may not be accurate.

The first Disney timeshare guide I ever had was like a used car salesman. She never lied about anything, but spoke in such a way that without asking the right questions, or knowing what to ask, it could be easy to misconstrue what's actually being said.

I brought up the ongoing costs beyond buy-in, and how it behaves over time? Basically, "we're paying $30,000 today, but what other costs are we looking at moving forward?"

She deployed a used-car-salesman move of telling me the following...

"Your costs each year would only be... [writes "$7.26/pt/year" on a piece of paper and slides it across the table].... your annual dues"; a subtle suggestion that on a 150 point contract would cost only a little over $1,000/year for 50 years.

What she stated was factually true, what she was subtly suggesting, was not.

Don't get me wrong, I believe whole heartedly that sometimes buyers without enough information/knowledge will misunderstand what they say, and that ultimately the onus should be on the buyer to know what they're buying.

But that doesn't mean all guides are as forthright as the good ones.

I've never had a guide lie, but some are remarkably adept at telling you just enough information for you to fill in the gaps and come to the wrong conclusion.

 

[TinkB278]

In the scenario above, what the guide says is factually true. But one's likely interpretation of what's being said may not be accurate.

The first Disney timeshare guide I ever had was like a used car salesman. She never lied about anything, but spoke in such a way that without asking the right questions, or knowing what to ask, it could be easy to misconstrue what's actually being said.

I brought up the ongoing costs beyond buy-in, and how it behaves over time? Basically, "we're paying $30,000 today, but what other costs are we looking at moving forward?"

She deployed a used-car-salesman move of telling me the following...

"Your costs each year would only be... [writes "$7.26/pt/year" on a piece of paper and slides it across the table].... your annual dues"; a subtle suggestion that on a 150 point contract would cost only a little over $1,000/year for 50 years.

What she stated was factually true, what she was subtly suggesting, was not.

Don't get me wrong, I believe whole heartedly that sometimes buyers without enough information/knowledge will misunderstand what they say, and that ultimately the onus should be on the buyer to know what they're buying.

But that doesn't mean all guides are as forthright as the good ones.

I've never had a guide lie, but some are remarkably adept at telling you just enough information for you to fill in the gaps and come to the wrong conclusion.

Okay, so this wasn’t an actual conversation you had with a guide?

 

[Bing Showei]

Okay, so this wasn’t an actual conversation you had with a guide?

[pushes finger to @TinkB278's lips]

Shhh. Let's not spoil the magic.

 

[havoc315]

Eh, I don't know. The 1 bedroom is a lot of points but I'm not sure I agree with your assessment. The full kitchen in the 1 bedroom offers the potential to save a ton of money in food costs. True, not everyone chooses to go that route but i'm not real sure what the purpose of comparing the cost of 2 studios to a 1 bedroom is.

Yes, a full kitchen (and W/D) are the big advantages of a 1 BR over a studio, or over 2 studios. But a kitchenette is plenty for lots of people (part of the reason studios are so popular).
Purely in terms of maximizing space for the fewest points, 2 studios are better than a 1 bedroom. Pro and cons of each.

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

US too. We have most of our meals in the villa. It's cheaper, faster, and we make meals I know my kids will eat. Not everyone likes to do this of course but it works best for us.

It does depend on the person/family and even on the specific trip. DH and I love the food scene at WDW in general and usually would not need or want to cook if we can try more restaurants or new dishes at the restaurants we like.

 

[havoc315]

It does depend on the person/family and even on the specific trip. DH and I love the food scene at WDW in general and usually would not need or want to cook if we can try more restaurants or new dishes at the restaurants we like.

Personally, eating out is part of vacation for me. Cooking, cleaning and doing dishes... not so much.
Like the kitchen for breakfasts, snacks, an occasional lunch or light dinner. And most critically, just to have a fridge full of cold beverages.

 

[The Jackal]

The guide I spoke with made it sound like RIV resale owners would be able to stay at the new resorts with resale points.

I don’t believe it is worded that way. Guides sometime are not on top of some things. But if you heard this from a bus driver, then it has to be true.

 

[Sandisw]

Eh, I don't know. The 1 bedroom is a lot of points but I'm not sure I agree with your assessment. The full kitchen in the 1 bedroom offers the potential to save a ton of money in food costs. True, not everyone chooses to go that route but i'm not real sure what the purpose of comparing the cost of 2 studios to a 1 bedroom is.

For the additional 1 or 2 points a night...in some cases like summer it’s not less...it costs for a family to be in a 1 bedroom vs 2 studios I simply can not see a family of 4 or 5, even with older children, doing this,

Now, I know plenty of people who will squeeze into a studio vs, spending the points for a 1 bedroom, but heck. I won’t stay in a studio with more than 2 now, and book a 1 bedroom!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Okay, so this wasn’t an actual conversation you had with a guide?

Just in case you're still wondering - not, that was not an actual conversation.

 

[i<3riviera]

͏

 

[CastAStone]

one more RVA resale deed was added last week ...

recording date	#	points	USD per point	notes
7 Aug 2019​	1a​	175​	100​	bought by flipper​
30 Oct 2019​	1b​	175​	140​	sold by flipper​
18 Mar 2020​	2​	110​	139.1​	​
8 May 2020​	3​	412​	109.2​	​
2 Jun 2020​	4​	100​	135​	​
3 Jun 2020​	5​	125​	144​	​
11 Aug 2020​	6​	130​	135.4​	​
27 Aug 2020​	7​	175​	133.1​	​
1 Sep 2020​	8​	190​	130​	​
17 Sep 2020​	9​	195​	120​	​
25 Sep 2020​	10​	110​	150​	​

the coefficient of determination (R²) hasn't improved significantly because this data point was above the best-fit line; with the additional data points, the outlier sale to the timeshare flipper has less of an effect (the two best-fit lines are converging) ...

View attachment 529374

I continue to think that once there’s 20 contracts on the market at once the price will drop considerably. To what, it’s hard to say. We should start to see that, what, maybe early 2021?