What is going on with Disney parks?

[Mome Rath]

I don't see how Josh posting a verifiable fact is wrong but stating that you can just do 5 or so refreshes and expect to pull multiple erides is acceptable...

And again, the main point is there is no reason that HS should close at 8, especially when they saw all the FP's were gone.....

Everything he said is accurate; he points out the drop time and you don't even have to refresh if you catch a drop. Remy said, "We have been to AK a ton in the past few months and not once have we failed to get an FoP at 101 with minimal effort." That's a drop time.

Remy said, "Last Friday for a friend I pulled multiple eride attractions at Studios ( SDD, TSM, SMuggler(2), ToT(2), RNRC (2), Star Tours)with no more than 5 or so refreshes ( understanding when drops happen helps)." The SDD, Smugger and sometimes TSM are drops. ToT, Star Tours, and R'n'R are relatively easy to get, yes, within 5 refreshes.

The point is, not all the FP's stay gone. All you have to do is refresh to see that, that's why I say that is extremely misleading. You can pull up the FP selection later in the evening and it can look like all FP's are gone for that day in every park. You refresh, and the FP's populate as you refresh. That's what I'm saying; if you are a newbie, you don't know that even when it says there are no more FP's, that is wrong the majority of the time; it is only saying there are no FP's right at that second for the person who just loaded it.

Disney, esp. with the Asian park closures, are not going to extend hours at this time. It's not in their business best interest. What I, and others are saying about the FPs, is if you spend the time learning the in's and out's, the open park hours are enough to do what you want to do in a day. I get that some people are night owls, and that does stink that they can't have open hours when they want them, but we operate within the confines of those park hours for when we plan a trip.

 

[Remy is Up]

So you are saying that his tweet is accurate for 90% of WDW travelers?

No. Lack of knowledge about the system on the 90% of guests part doesnt make a tweet that is absolutely false become true. Just because they dont know about refresh and drops has no bearing on the inaccuracy of his tweet. Had he qualified his tweet with there are no more pre book fps he would've been accurate

 

[Artax]

I see some posting about drop times, but other than a few posts here nobody seems to post actual times. I read here almost daily and all I see are vague posts about the subject of drop times and the FP+ FAQ sticky pretty much says they dont hold back fastpasses. So I am here to ask where on this board do people talk about drop times for rides in each park. I understand the refresh concept and know how to navigate to do it but some of us dont go to the parks enough to actually know if/when new fastpasses are added to he system. So is this just a hidden secret for those that go enough to see a pattern, or is this talked about somewhere in a 400 page post?

 

[Remy is Up]

See below:




I don't see how Josh posting a verifiable fact is wrong but stating that you can just do 5 or so refreshes and expect to pull multiple erides is acceptable...

And again, the main point is there is no reason that HS should close at 8, especially when they saw all the FP's were gone.....

ETA: What do you think happens to the refresh method as knowledge spreads? (It already is terrible for me can't imagine adding another 10% of the WDW population to it)

It's not going to spread. You are operating under the assumption that the info about refresh is going to be published by disney to the masses. It isnt. Only people on boards like this have a clue. Heck others facebook annual passholder page most of them dont have a clue. We have not seen a change in refresh success in 2 years in fact as crowds get bigger it gets easier because it's more people in the park who dont get it and dont care. They are there for fun. Are good with their 3 free fps and then stand by.
Park hours arent changing to make it easier on the guests. Work within the confines of the hours. Be knowledgeable. Have a plan. And it isnt difficult.

 

[Remy is Up]

Google

I see some posting about drop times, but other than a few posts here nobody seems to post actual times. I read here almost daily and all I see are vague posts about the subject of drop times and the FP+ FAQ sticky pretty much says they dont hold back fastpasses. So I am here to ask where on this board do people talk about drop times for rides in each park. I understand the refresh concept and know how to navigate to do it but some of us dont go to the parks enough to actually know if/when new fastpasses are added to he system. So is this just a hidden secret for those that go enough to see a pattern, or is this talked about somewhere in a 400 page post?

Google wdw same day fast pass drops. You'll find it. None at mk. Only at tiered parks. And even those who know about refresh. Maybe 25% or less know drop times
We go so much we figured most of them out by trial and error. But they absolutely exist and can work to your advantage. Just have to make sure you have burned your initial 3 to be ready to grab new ones on drop times.

 

[dlavender]

Everything he said is accurate; he points out the drop time and you don't even have to refresh if you catch a drop. Remy said, "We have been to AK a ton in the past few months and not once have we failed to get an FoP at 101 with minimal effort." That's a drop time.

Remy said, "Last Friday for a friend I pulled multiple eride attractions at Studios ( SDD, TSM, SMuggler(2), ToT(2), RNRC (2), Star Tours)with no more than 5 or so refreshes ( understanding when drops happen helps)." The SDD, Smugger and sometimes TSM are drops. ToT, Star Tours, and R'n'R are relatively easy to get, yes, within 5 refreshes.

The point is, not all the FP's stay gone. All you have to do is refresh to see that, that's why I say that is extremely misleading. You can pull up the FP selection later in the evening and it can look like all FP's are gone for that day in every park. You refresh, and the FP's populate as you refresh. That's what I'm saying; if you are a newbie, you don't know that even when it says there are no more FP's, that is wrong the majority of the time; it is only saying there are no FP's right at that second for the person who just loaded it.

Disney, esp. with the Asian park closures, are not going to extend hours at this time. It's not in their business best interest. What I, and others are saying about the FPs, is if you spend the time learning the in's and out's, the open park hours are enough to do what you want to do in a day. I get that some people are night owls, and that does stink that they can't have open hours when they want them, but we operate within the confines of those park hours for when we plan a trip.

Oh good, you did see that post....

 

[Itsnotmykitchen]

So we are defending here by looking at the competitors?

I wish that worked with hotel rates....

I have no problem comparing park to park. Disney hotel rates are crazy and I’ve posted that on this board. My picture is from Cabana Bay, I branch out from Disney hotels a lot because I don’t think most are worth the price but that’s been the case for many years. There are a lot of valid criticisms of Disney on this board but there’s also a lot of piling on and complaints about things that are a given for the industry or any industry which detracts from actual problems.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Another garbage day of DHS availability for me, for what it’s worth. 5 ish minutes of refresh at just after 1 PM Disney time resulted in TSMM at 615, and AS2 at 6 something. Nothing else noteworthy. Party of 2. The crowds there are very heavy today.

Josh’s “nothing available”, DHS needs longer hours, post rings more true for the majority than advising that all you need is the willingness to refresh to ride multiple headliners all the time. DHS is a different animal. It does not handle the new crowds well. Anybody who downplays that is giving terrible touring advice, IMO. Anybody going needs to be prepared that without FP you are looking at 90+ mins for the actual attractions, save for Star Tours. Characters are very long as well. You *might* get lucky with same day FP, it is no where near a sure thing at this point (maybe MMRR helps slightly).

This has sparked its own discussion at this point, but I think the initial point was absolutely true. Too many people in DHS for the amount of hours it’s open and the attractions it has. Fingers crossed MMRR makes it better not worse.

 

[amylevan]

Park hours arent changing to make it easier on the guests. Work within the confines of the hours. Be knowledgeable. Have a plan. And it isnt difficult.

But that is what the thread is about. WDW used to increase their hours. Heck, there were days in the past that they would increase their hours on the day of!!!!!

They’ve increased their prices, all while shortening their hours, to the point that a park with brand spanking new stuff that is supposed to draw huge crowds is not even open past 8 pm.

 

[dlavender]

But that is what the thread is about. WDW used to increase their hours. Heck, there were days in the past that they would increase their hours on the day of!!!!!

They’ve increased their prices, all while shortening their hours, to the point that a park with brand spanking new stuff that is supposed to draw huge crowds is not even open past 8 pm.

+10000

 

[Leigh L]

Another garbage day of DHS availability for me, for what it’s worth. 5 ish minutes of refresh at just after 1 PM Disney time resulted in TSMM at 615, and AS2 at 6 something. Nothing else noteworthy. Party of 2. The crowds there are very heavy today.

Josh’s “nothing available”, DHS needs longer hours, post rings more true for the majority than advising that all you need is the willingness to refresh to ride multiple headliners all the time. DHS is a different animal. It does not handle the new crowds well. Anybody who downplays that is giving terrible touring advice, IMO. Anybody going needs to be prepared that without FP you are looking at 90+ mins for the actual attractions, save for Star Tours. Characters are very long as well. You *might* get lucky with same day FP, it is no where near a sure thing at this point (maybe MMRR helps slightly).

This has sparked its own discussion at this point, but I think the initial point was absolutely true. Too many people in DHS for the amount of hours it’s open and the attractions it has. Fingers crossed MMRR makes it better not worse.

I've been mostly lurking this thread, but wanted to jump in and share our recent end of January experience.

We are pretty experienced refreshers and I've taught my family members. DD13 in particular has gotten really good at it. When in DHS on 1/26, it was slim pickings for extra FPs. We started with SDD (for 2), TSMM (for other 2), Star Tours (4) and then a VoTLM that we ended up dumping and, if memory serves, we picked up a FP at MK instead and hopped over there for a few hours. We came back to DHS around 5 pm(ish) to see TSL and GE at night and to stay for EMH. Whether at DHS earlier in the day or when we came back, it was difficult to pick up much of anything, and that's not from a lack of trying. Not like we've been able to do in the past with less effort.

A couple of times in the 5 and 6 p.m. hour I got the "no more FP being issued for today" message. I knew refreshing would change that, and it did, but still...slim pickings. During the week we also observed a noticeable change in refreshing availability from our January and August 2019 trips at the other 3 parks in FP availability. (While I know about timed drops, we did not actively pursue these).

Honestly, we had better luck refreshing on Christmas Eve at MK this past year for a one-day visit when passing through Orlando for the holidays than we did during our 5 days in January at all 4 parks. I do believe park hours with current crowd levels are having an impact - have never been at WDW during Christmas week so was expecting it to be crazy, and it was, but it also had a 12 a.m closing and 7 a.m. opening.

When we were at WDW President's week 2018, MK jumped from 8 and 9 p.m. closures to 11 and midnight closures around the time we arrived. It seems you just don't see that anymore. And even with that in 2018, the parks were insanely busy that year of that week.

 

[dlavender]

Another garbage day of DHS availability for me, for what it’s worth. 5 ish minutes of refresh at just after 1 PM Disney time resulted in TSMM at 615, and AS2 at 6 something. Nothing else noteworthy. Party of 2. The crowds there are very heavy today.

Josh’s “nothing available”, DHS needs longer hours, post rings more true for the majority than advising that all you need is the willingness to refresh to ride multiple headliners all the time. DHS is a different animal. It does not handle the new crowds well. Anybody who downplays that is giving terrible touring advice, IMO. Anybody going needs to be prepared that without FP you are looking at 90+ mins for the actual attractions, save for Star Tours. Characters are very long as well. You *might* get lucky with same day FP, it is no where near a sure thing at this point (maybe MMRR helps slightly).

This has sparked its own discussion at this point, but I think the initial point was absolutely true. Too many people in DHS for the amount of hours it’s open and the attractions it has. Fingers crossed MMRR makes it better not worse.

It’s easy. All you have to do is refresh *

* know drop times (if they haven’t changed)
* break up larger parties to find overlapping times
* keep refreshing

You’ll be riding SDD in no time...

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I've been mostly lurking this thread, but wanted to jump in and share our recent end of January experience.

We are pretty experienced refreshers and I've taught my family members. DD13 in particular has gotten really good at it. When in DHS on 1/26, it was slim pickings for extra FPs. We started with SDD (for 2), TSMM (for other 2), Star Tours (4) and then a VoTLM that we ended up dumping and, if memory serves, we picked up a FP at MK instead and hopped over there for a few hours. We came back to DHS around 5 pm(ish) to see TSL and GE at night and to stay for EMH. Whether at DHS earlier in the day or when we came back, it was difficult to pick up much of anything, and that's not from a lack of trying. Not like we've been able to do in the past with less effort.

A couple of times in the 5 and 6 p.m. hour I got the "no more FP being issued for today" message. I knew refreshing would change that, and it did, but still...slim pickings. During the week we also observed a noticeable change in refreshing availability from our January and August 2019 trips at the other 3 parks in FP availability. (While I know about timed drops, we did not actively pursue these).

Honestly, we had better luck refreshing on Christmas Eve at MK this past year for a one-day visit when passing through Orlando for the holidays than we did during our 5 days in January at all 4 parks. I do believe park hours with current crowd levels are having an impact - have never been at WDW during Christmas week so was expecting it to be crazy, and it was, but it also had a 12 a.m closing and 7 a.m. opening.

When we were at WDW President's week 2018, MK jumped from 8 and 9 p.m. closures to 11 and midnight closures around the time we arrived. It seems you just don't see that anymore. And even with that in 2018, the parks were insanely busy that year of that week.

Yup.

Extended hours help crowds so much, which was the takeaway from the twitter post. It’s way too crowded to be so stingy with when they open and close the parks.

I am so frustrated that even with the state of DHS, they are extending hours a measly 2 weeks at a time by small amounts. I am not an insider, I am not high up in the Disney company, but it sure gives me the impression that they are extending as little as they possibly can.

 

[dlavender]

I have no problem comparing park to park. Disney hotel rates are crazy and I’ve posted that on this board. My picture is from Cabana Bay, I branch out from Disney hotels a lot because I don’t think most are worth the price but that’s been the case for many years. There are a lot of valid criticisms of Disney on this board but there’s also a lot of piling on and complaints about things that are a given for the industry or any industry which detracts from actual problems.

To me, cutting entertainment and hours while turning the screws on pricing is an actual problem.

I get that we have these workarounds (which seem very fruitful to some despite my personal experience) and that when armed with information you can make it work. But I caution the refreshers from thinking that it will always be that way. Genie is coming. Hopefully not for your refreshes....

 

[Itsnotmykitchen]

But that is what the thread is about. WDW used to increase their hours. Heck, there were days in the past that they would increase their hours on the day of!!!!!

They’ve increased their prices, all while shortening their hours, to the point that a park with brand spanking new stuff that is supposed to draw huge crowds is not even open past 8 pm.

Disney parks were open for more hours over this Presidents Week than they were over the one in 2016.

https://www.wdwinfo.com/wdwinfo/hours/feb16.cfm
https://www.wdwinfo.com/wdwinfo/hours/february2020.cfm
I would definitely prefer shorter hours at Animal Kingdom and longer ones at Magic Kindgom like it was back in 2016 but I don't think its fair to say Disney has drastically shortened hours in any sense. They've cut back at MK and added to AK and HS where the new rides are.

 

[clarker99]

But that is what the thread is about. WDW used to increase their hours. Heck, there were days in the past that they would increase their hours on the day of!!!!!

They’ve increased their prices, all while shortening their hours, to the point that a park with brand spanking new stuff that is supposed to draw huge crowds is not even open past 8 pm.

A lot of moving parts for any decisions made by Disney. Having Shanghei and Hong Kong parks closed def is bringing some austerity to WDW in the short term. Also, think the increased capital expenditures are forcing Dis to squeeze their costs. Rumours that both DLR and DHS Galaxy's Edge projects went way over budget. Len Testa & Jim Hill mentioned that it may have been close to a $1billon per park. Add that to all the other work being done that will likely go over budget.

Plus, I am sure Disney has looked hard at the data and had to make these decisions to maintain margins.

All the money stuff aside, DHS just plain needs more ride/attraction capacity to swallow the crowds. Then again, prior to RoTR opening, many were calling it a half day park so things change fast.

Yup.

Extended hours help crowds so much, which was the takeaway from the twitter post. It’s way too crowded to be so stingy with when they open and close the parks.

I am so frustrated that even with the state of DHS, they are extending hours a measly 2 weeks at a time by small amounts. I am not an insider, I am not high up in the Disney company, but it sure gives me the impression that they are extending as little as they possibly can.

If BG’s didnt exist the park wouldn’t be anywhere near as busy at RD. Knowing you had to wake up a 4am would be a deterrent to a lot of people. You would see the park swell around 10am as you do at the other 3 parks.

The BG’s give people a legit and mostly fair chance to ride RotR, where a long standy by line offers a deterrent to some park goers.

Let’s be honest. Disney loves that DHS is packed for 12 hours.

 

[Brianstl]

A lot of moving parts for any decisions made by Disney. Having Shanghei and Hong Kong parks closed def is bringing some austerity to WDW in the short term. Also, think the increased capital expenditures are forcing Dis to squeeze their costs. Rumours that both DLR and DHS Galaxy's Edge projects went way over budget. Len Testa & Jim Hill mentioned that it may have been close to a $1billon per park. Add that to all the other work being done that will likely go over budget.

Plus, I am sure Disney has looked hard at the data and had to make these decisions to maintain margins.

All the money stuff aside, DHS just plain needs more ride/attraction capacity to swallow the crowds. Then again, prior to RoTR opening, many were calling it a half day park so things change fast.

They can talk about capital expenditures all they want. but it doesn't change the fact that over the past five years Disney operating income from domestic parks and resorts has doubled. There isn't a desperate need to squeeze costs when you have doubled your operating income despite cost overruns.

 

[Remy is Up]

MMRR should alleviate some of the issues because now there will be 3 Tier 1 to spread out everything rather than just the current 2. It is obvious this was the plan all along. Just as once Remy opens at Epcot, I see Soaring dropping to tier 2 and when GotG opens, FEA drops because TT is too sensitive to weather and has less capacity.
Of course they want the parks packed but traditionally Studios hasnt been a late evening park anyway. Epcot has always been 9 or 930, 10 during F&W and holidays. Studios has been an 8 or 9 PM almost all the time. Ak and MK vary greatly. But regardless of hours, add 2 hours to Studios and you wont minimize the crowds or shorten the lines. All youll do is stack the masses for another 2 hours. And it wont help FP distribution.

And FWIW during the 2nd and 3rd drops at Studios today Smuggler, SDD, TSM, ToT, and RNRC all appeared. And all were within 2 hours of the drop time. I then checked sporadically and have seen Smuggler come up a few times, TSM , ToT, RNRC all in that order of frequency. Only saw SDD during the drop but that is normal and will likely be a bit easier once MMRR opens.

Is that park the most difficult one at the moment? Yep until MMRR opens. Is it impossible and are there no during the day fast passes available. Nope. No worries as far as Im concerned. We go enough that the reality for us is, no ride is impossible to get a FP on with the information at hand and it hasnt gotten more difficult over the past 2 years. We understand these are the park hours, let Disney run their business, enjoy the parks by maximizing our knowledge and use of the system, and not worry about the small stuff because no matter what I disagree with, my opinion isnt changing a thing Disney does. SO work within what they do and enjoy. If it caused me as much grief and the reaction others have to things, Id be miserable going and have to spend more time on the beach instead.

 

[clarker99]

They can talk about capital expenditures all they want. but it doesn't change the fact that over the past five years Disney operating income from domestic parks and resorts has doubled. There isn't a desperate need to squeeze costs when you have doubled your operating income despite cost overruns.

I am gonna have to look through some DIS financials but if Dis spent an extra $2b on SWGE then they will def have to try and make that up. That is a lot lightsabers to sell.

 

[Brianstl]

I am gonna have to look through some DIS financials but if Dis spent an extra $2b on SWGE then they will def have to try and make that up. That is a lot lightsabers to sell.

Their operating income numbers suggest they have made that money up and then some.