OK, I'll say it... we are too sensitive

[luvsJack]

I don’t think I’m understanding what you’re saying here. Are you suggesting modern societies shouldn’t be turned off by people’s past actions simply because those actions were acceptable at the time they were alive?


I was thinking about the morality of those examples, not the legality. And the point was that famous people fall from grace all the time once society learns more about the individual or changes its views on certain subjects.


I couldn’t remember which was the song in question so I listed them both. My bad.


So baseball, once a segregated sport, should always remain a segregated sport? Of course not, it needs to evolve and change alongside society. This is exactly my point. The Yankees have decided this singer’s body of work no longer fits with the image they want for their organization in the context of today’s social mores and values. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Her whole body of work or a couple of songs sang 50 years ago?

Does the baseball museum or hall of fames not include memorabilia from their racist path?

 

[wvjules]

I, as a white person, don't get a say in what any minority person feels about a particular subject. If they are offended it is not my place to say that they shouldn't be. Why does anyone else think they get to make that decision about how anyone else feels?

Also, now that her history is well known, how would you feel if you were a black baseball player hearing someone that sang such trash sing a song as a "tradition" during the sport you love and play?

I hate that being PC gets thrown around as being a bad thing. Why is being aware of how someone else feels and making changes a bad thing?

 

[wvjules]

And now American Idol is racist because 2 black singers were voted off by the public. Not by the judges.

Says who? I voted for both of them because I love their personalities. But they weren't the best singers so I think America got it right. I vote with my heart.

 

[nkereina]

You can not equate "tempting men/the 'Me Too' movement" with racism.

Why not? Racism is just as heinous as predatory sexual acts. Those guilty of either should have consequences.

I’m not understanding how a woman’s sexual agency is at odds with the Me Too movement which is about taking a stand against harassment and assault. I think maybe you picked a poor example to make your point?

Some would say Christina Aguilera's overtly sexual nature from the early 2000's and songs like "Dirty" promote a rape culture and work against feminism and empowerment, which the "Me Too" movement is working towards. I don't necessarily agree, and I'm sure there are better examples, but that's what I was getting at with the comparison. Perhaps a better example might be with rap music - many are full of lyrics about gangs, drugs, murder. All of these things are heinous like racism is, but we don't hear of them getting pulled or banned from mainstream things. I would just like to see these standards more universally applied - all or nothing. If you're going to pull this lady's rendition for something she did 80 years ago that wasn't perceived as bad at that time, then the bigger picture should be looked at too.

 

[DeniseJH]

I, as a white person, don't get a say in what any minority person feels about a particular subject. If they are offended it is not my place to say that they shouldn't be. Why does anyone else think they get to make that decision about how anyone else feels?

Also, now that her history is well known, how would you feel if you were a black baseball player hearing someone that sang such trash sing a song as a "tradition" during the sport you love and play?

I hate that being PC gets thrown around as being a bad thing. Why is being aware of how someone else feels and making changes a bad thing?

Very well put. I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[iivye]

I find it interesting how quickly the statue was removed yet the Washington Redskins refuse to change the name of the football team which is an outright racial slur. It seems only certain offenses are deemed worthy for correction in today's society.

 

[luvsJack]

Racial prejudice is has always been alive and well - that doesn't mean it was, or ever will be acceptable.

The poster didn't say it was or should be acceptable, the poster said it was alive and well. But here is what you are failing to get, sadly it WAS accepted then. Like it or not, it was. You can't change it by denying the truth.

 

[DopeyDame]

I'm speaking towards covering up the statue and then removing it in the case of the OP. We do that too in other things. People destroying things. Things may have better places to be at totally agree there but it doesn't mean we erase that they exist. I'm sorry you can't think of instances where people tried to erase traces of stuff but I can. Your second statement is part of what I'm talking about. Things exist in our past. We can strive to educate ourselves and view things in contexual ways while also bringing to the forefront how we view things today (for at least some things) or we can opt to put it under the rug or removed entirely.

I grew up near Philadelphia in the 80s, so I definitely knew of Kate Smith through the Flyers connection. Until today I didn't know there was a statue of her anywhere.
I guess I must be doing it wrong - when walking past a statue, I usually don't even take the time to notice the name, and I certainly don't use statues to educate myself and contextualize the person. I usually rely on books/videos/classes/etc for that. I'll have to take more time next time I come across a statue, for fear of erasing something from my history.

 

[DopeyDame]

I find it interesting how quickly the statue was removed yet the Washington Redskins refuse to change the name of the football team which is an outright racial slur. It seems only certain offenses are deemed worthy for correction in today's society.

It really is pretty apalling that the Red Skins (and Chief Wahoo, while we're at it!) still use their name. My husband thinks they should just change their mascot to a potato, and then they could keep their name. (Get it... red skin potatoes...)

 

[DopeyDame]

I, as a white person, don't get a say in what any minority person feels about a particular subject. If they are offended it is not my place to say that they shouldn't be. Why does anyone else think they get to make that decision about how anyone else feels?

Also, now that her history is well known, how would you feel if you were a black baseball player hearing someone that sang such trash sing a song as a "tradition" during the sport you love and play?

I hate that being PC gets thrown around as being a bad thing. Why is being aware of how someone else feels and making changes a bad thing?

Amen! What some people call PC others call being kind and polite.

 

[gina2000]

Racial prejudice is has always been alive and well - that doesn't mean it was, or ever will be acceptable.

No foolin'. To pretend that it wasn't a mainstay of the past is disingenuous. But you can't look at it and decide that because it was wrong, it should be erased. Accept it. We, the American people, are fatally flawed in the way we treated the African American community post Civil War. And for many that includes today. But singing a socially accepted song in the 1930s that was a hit doesn't brand a person for life. It makes them human just as it makes all the people who listened to that song and made it a hit, human. Just like it makes Paul Robeson, an African American activist who also sang that song, human. Do we discard all the good he did after he sang that song? Do we erase him? No, we accept that he is flawed, just as we all are.

 

[dadtoagirl03]

I, as a white person, don't get a say in what any minority person feels about a particular subject. If they are offended it is not my place to say that they shouldn't be. Why does anyone else think they get to make that decision about how anyone else feels?

Also, now that her history is well known, how would you feel if you were a black baseball player hearing someone that sang such trash sing a song as a "tradition" during the sport you love and play?

I hate that being PC gets thrown around as being a bad thing. Why is being aware of how someone else feels and making changes a bad thing?

The issue lies in I'm a white man. In today's PC society everyone gets a say in what I should feel, what I can or can't say, what I can or can't do. If I disagree I'm a racist, bigot, etc... In this way the PC culture is out of control.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I grew up near Philadelphia in the 80s, so I definitely knew of Kate Smith through the Flyers connection. Until today I didn't know there was a statue of her anywhere.
I guess I must be doing it wrong - when walking past a statue, I usually don't even take the time to notice the name, and I certainly don't use statues to educate myself and contextualize the person. I usually rely on books/videos/classes/etc for that. I'll have to take more time next time I come across a statue, for fear of erasing something from my history.

Again I'm not just talking about this situation.

You may not use statues or memorials or other objects but others for sure do. Glad you rely on books videos and classes but when I visit places I'm not just learning their history by reading a book (and I love reading). I'm assuming when you travel you don't just read about things from a book and call it good; though perhaps you do and that's totally fine.

On your last statement perhaps you'll learn something not found in a book, video or class

 

[Hikergirl]

At what point do we draw a line?
Do we have to research every single person from 50+ years ago to make sure they didn't do something we deem unacceptable by today's standards?

 

[Scifidiner]

The issue lies in I'm a white man. In today's PC society everyone gets a say in what I should feel, what I can or can't say, what I can or can't do. If I disagree I'm a racist, bigot, etc... In this way the PC culture is out of control.

I'm offended you self identify as a white man. lol

 

[longboard55]

without getting political, both sides have their hot button issues. PC works both ways

 

[wvjules]

The issue lies in I'm a white man. In today's PC society everyone gets a say in what I should feel, what I can or can't say, what I can or can't do. If I disagree I'm a racist, bigot, etc... In this way the PC culture is out of control.

Sorry but if you (the general you) feel certain ways then you are a racist, bigot, etc. It has nothing with being PC. It just is.

I love when a disenfranchised white man posts on threads like these.

At what point do we draw a line?
Do we have to research every single person from 50+ years ago to make sure they didn't do something we deem unacceptable by today's standards?

Not necessarily. But when the past does come to light it is ok to make changes based on new information. People do that every day.

 

[DeniseJH]

The poster didn't say it was or should be acceptable, the poster said it was alive and well. But here is what you are failing to get, sadly it WAS accepted then. Like it or not, it was. You can't change it by denying the truth.[/QU

It was accepted by some back then, but many knew better.

 

[RedAngie]

I admit that it is annoying, it is annoying to see an organization cower to people that can't handle the fact that there are entire generations out there who lived a different way than we do now, and *gasp* during their time it was acceptable.
I'd rather see that organization grow a pair and tell those people to go find a safe space and some coloring books.

As far as I can tell, the Yankees didn't cower to anybody. There was no PC outrage demanding they stop playing her version of God Bless America. 99% of people were unaware of those other old songs until recently. The Yankees, then the Flyers, chose to drop God Bless America of their own accord after learning of the other songs. It's the teams' prerogative to do so for whatever reasons they choose.

If, after a backlash, the Yankees and Flyers reinstate the song, you'll know who they're cowering to. Maybe they should tell the people who are outraged over the song being dropped to grow a pair.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Her whole body of work or a couple of songs sang 50 years ago?

Does the baseball museum or hall of fames not include memorabilia from their racist path?

Fifty songs, one song, her private diary entries, a racial slur she once carved in a tree, Kathy Griffin’s controversial political stunt, Lori Laughlin’s college cheating... it doesn’t matter what it is. Once an organization feels a person’s image is no longer good for their brand, they’re free to cut ties.

I don’t have the slightest interest in baseball nor do I know anything about their museum, but seeing that it’s a museum and museums are places for historical preservation — the good, bad, and ugly aspects of history — then I would say that racist memorabilia is right where it belongs.