Marathon Weekend 2021

[Novatrix]

We're veering a bit off topic here, but @rteetz I would argue the window dressing changed as a result of 9/11, not the content.

Ultimately, plane travel decreased for a bit and then resumed. People still used planes to travel.

Virologists have been saying for years that we've been overdue for a global pandemic, yet no one began reinstating pandemic policies when we had the SARS and Ebola scares. As soon as government regulations lift, life will start returning to what people remember. People who had in person business meetings in the past will still have in person business meetings as soon as travel restrictions are lifted. Snow days are not needed for the children's education, they're needed for working parents who won't be able to foist remote learning off on daycare. Businesses may continue to provide sanitizer, but people will stop using it as frequently as soon as they feel the danger has passed.

To @Krandor's point, businesses will take this as an opportunity to reduce services they already wanted to do away with and will return them depending on what it takes to recapture the market. Changes that will stay wil be cost reducing measures that they were planning to do anyway (like mobile ordering, or Disney streaming new movies for a premium on their own platform)

What I meant by returning to the old normal was Disney holding in person races to get people to come with their families to the parks during slow seasons. There will be as many numbers as they can reasonably accommodate on the course, and they will be maskless. There will be some photo ops for people to share pics/video/vr on whatever the in vogue social media app of the time will be. If Disney can reduce the number of aid stops in interest of cost reduction, they will, but there will at least be some due to public outcry. I do think the Wine and Dine afterparty will be gone permanently, but we'll see what the next decade brings.

 

[rteetz]

We're veering a bit off topic here, but @rteetz I would argue the window dressing changed as a result of 9/11, not the content.

Ultimately, plane travel decreased for a bit and then resumed. People still used planes to travel.

Virologists have been saying for years that we've been overdue for a global pandemic, yet no one began reinstating pandemic policies when we had the SARS and Ebola scares. As soon as government regulations lift, life will start returning to what people remember. People who had in person business meetings in the past will still have in person business meetings as soon as travel restrictions are lifted. Snow days are not needed for the children's education, they're needed for working parents who won't be able to foist remote learning off on daycare. Businesses may continue to provide sanitizer, but people will stop using it as frequently as soon as they feel the danger has passed.

To @Krandor's point, businesses will take this as an opportunity to reduce services they already wanted to do away with and will return them depending on what it takes to recapture the market. Changes that will stay wil be cost reducing measures that they were planning to do anyway (like mobile ordering, or Disney streaming new movies for a premium on their own platform)

What I meant by returning to the old normal was Disney holding in person races to get people to come with their families to the parks during slow seasons. There will be as many numbers as they can reasonably accommodate on the course, and they will be maskless. There will be some photo ops for people to share pics/video/vr on whatever the in vogue social media app of the time will be. If Disney can reduce the number of aid stops in interest of cost reduction, they will, but there will at least be some due to public outcry. I do think the Wine and Dine afterparty will be gone permanently, but we'll see what the next decade brings.

Ok then...

My point remains things remain changed to this day. Whether "window dressing" or not. Things did change. Thats a fact.

As for snow days and your rebuttal for that. Plenty of families are dealing with that very issue right now and plenty of daycares are figuring out how to have students virtually learn. Not all schools are back right now. I am fairly certain people can figure it out for one day to virtually learn.

I don't deny most things will return to the prior normal. However like @Krandor there will be things that change for the good too.

If we are being honest, runDisney prior to COVID wasn't needed anymore to bring people to the parks. The parks were busy enough on their own.

Bringing this back to Disney this pandemic will create changes that aren't related to pandemics and viruses. For example Fastpass+ is likely to never return in the form it was previously. We may see park passes long term. We may see big changes to annual passes. They will promote mobile ordering, contactless payments, etc long term now. Those things are here to stay. Josh D'Amaro head of parks and resorts said that himself.

Not everything has to be directly tied to this pandemic. There are plenty of indirect things that will come from this.

 

[Krandor]

Ok then...

My point remains things remain changed to this day. Whether "window dressing" or not. Things did change. Thats a fact.

As for snow days and your rebuttal for that. Plenty of families are dealing with that very issue right now and plenty of daycares are figuring out how to have students virtually learn. Not all schools are back right now. I am fairly certain people can figure it out for one day to virtually learn.

I don't deny most things will return to the prior normal. However like @Krandor there will be things that change for the good too.

If we are being honest, runDisney prior to COVID wasn't needed anymore to bring people to the parks. The parks were busy enough on their own.

Bringing this back to Disney this pandemic will create changes that aren't related to pandemics and viruses. For example Fastpass+ is likely to never return in the form it was previously. We may see park passes long term. We may see big changes to annual passes. They will promote mobile ordering, contactless payments, etc long term now. Those things are here to stay. Josh D'Amaro head of parks and resorts said that himself.

Not everything has to be directly tied to this pandemic. There are plenty of indirect things that will come from this.

and to tie this back to running. The trend we are seeing of giving people a specific start time vs everybody having to be there when wave A goes off and wait for your turn to start I'd love to see stay around in some form. Of course that doess often lead to a longer period of time start line has to be open, roads closed, etc so may not be practical but I hope it's something that can be looked at in some form. If I'm in wave e and can just show up at start line at 6:25 for my start vs needing to get into a corral at 5:30 and wait an hour I'm all for that. Is it possible? I don'tt know but with many races doing that right now I'm sure it is a questtion to be asked whenever can can move back to a "normal" start - "yes we can but should we?" That is going to be a common question over the next year or two. "yeah we changed this for covid. Now we can go back - should we keep this or go back?"

Whatever methods are implemeneted to avoid a logjam at the water station are another I'd love to stay around. Those places can get chaotic (I'm normally one to mypass the mass crowd at first few tables and find an empty one a little furthur down)

 

[*DisneyDreamer]

and to tie this back to running. The trend we are seeing of giving people a specific start time vs everybody having to be there when wave A goes off and wait for your turn to start I'd love to see stay around in some form. Of course that doess often lead to a longer period of time start line has to be open, roads closed, etc so may not be practical but I hope it's something that can be looked at in some form. If I'm in wave e and can just show up at start line at 6:25 for my start vs needing to get into a corral at 5:30 and wait an hour I'm all for that. Is it possible? I don'tt know but with many races doing that right now I'm sure it is a questtion to be asked whenever can can move back to a "normal" start - "yes we can but should we?" That is going to be a common question over the next year or two. "yeah we changed this for covid. Now we can go back - should we keep this or go back?"

Whatever methods are implemeneted to avoid a logjam at the water station are another I'd love to stay around. Those places can get chaotic (I'm normally one to mypass the mass crowd at first few tables and find an empty one a little furthur down)

With Disney races though, I don’t know how allowing people to get to the start closer to their time could work. How can they navigate road closures and getting the buses there on time? It would be awesome if it was possible, but I don’t see it.

Which is why I’m not optimistic about 2021 races. I want them back so bad, but nobody wants to be first to try, especially Disney. Even if they cut the capacity, it’s still a lot of people.

 

[Krandor]

With Disney races though, I don’t know how allowing people to get to the start closer to their time could work. How can they navigate road closures and getting the buses there on time? It would be awesome if it was possible, but I don’t see it.

Which is why I’m not optimistic about 2021 races. I want them back so bad, but nobody wants to be first to try, especially Disney. Even if they cut the capacity, it’s still a lot of people.

For disney it is tricky especially with their hard timetables on getting out of parks and the like. They don't have an much flexibility as a local race who may try to convince a city to let them keep roads closed an extra hour or so. Disney isn't going to delay opening MK by 1 or 2 hours for the race.

So you are right - for disney it's a problem with races as they are. Now if they went back to having some races at night....

 

[Jason Bryer]

Here's a crazy thought. With the parks closing much earlier now, what if the races started around 7pm? I personally would love that.

 

[Krandor]

Here's a crazy thought. With the parks closing much earlier now, what if the races started around 7pm? I personally would love that.

You could probably do the 5k, 10k, and half like that.... the full though would run way too late/early.

 

[Jason Bryer]

You could probably do the 5k, 10k, and half like that.... the full though would run way too late/early.

Wasn't the Wine and Dine at night and they had a party in Epcot until early in the morning or am I misremembering. Given the current 16 min/mile pace requirement, a 7pm start would have the marathon done at 2am. I know the chances of this happening are likely zero, but I'd prefer ending a race at 2am then getting up at 2am to start at 5am. Especially if I could get a couple of drinks in Epcot after.

 

[rteetz]

Wasn't the Wine and Dine at night and they had a party in Epcot until early in the morning or am I misremembering. Given the current 16 min/mile pace requirement, a 7pm start would have the marathon done at 2am. I know the chances of this happening are likely zero, but I'd prefer ending a race at 2am then getting up at 2am to start at 5am. Especially if I could get a couple of drinks in Epcot after.

Yes it was at night with an after party at Epcot post race. That was before they added the 10K tho and the 5K was the same day as the half but in the morning.

 

[Krandor]

Wasn't the Wine and Dine at night and they had a party in Epcot until early in the morning or am I misremembering. Given the current 16 min/mile pace requirement, a 7pm start would have the marathon done at 2am. I know the chances of this happening are likely zero, but I'd prefer ending a race at 2am then getting up at 2am to start at 5am. Especially if I could get a couple of drinks in Epcot after.

2am is only for wave A. The point of moving it would be to space people out timewise. Space them out 1 hour (which is normal) you end at 3am.. do 2 hours (likely needed for covid) you are at 4am. The point of moving it is to be able to spread start times out - as start times spread out finish times do too. And that is still just the runners finishing. You'd have some volunteers and staff not getting until 5 or 6am. I don't see that as feasible. Don't forget they often clean the parks and things at night too. They are not just sitting there empty

I think you could possibly push midnight for people to finish but I don't think much after that is going to work.

And yes there was a night W&D and a night ToT race with an afterparty at DHS but those also didn't finish at 2am-4am. I do so miss ToT.

 

[GuinnessRunner]

I'm sure it's been covered in earlier posts (admit I'm being lazy and not checking), but with Epcot not opening until 11:00 right now, at least for the 5-K and 10-K it gives them a lot more time to play with especially given what we think the field sizes will be. Obviously with the HM and full, it gets a lot trickier since the opening times on the other parks aren't as late. I wonder if they might play around with the courses to take advantage of the late Epcot opening times too? Obviously doesn't solve issues regarding required road closures, etc.

 

[Krandor]

I'm sure it's been covered in earlier posts (admit I'm being lazy and not checking), but with Epcot not opening until 11:00 right now, at least for the 5-K and 10-K it gives them a lot more time to play with especially given what we think the field sizes will be. Obviously with the HM and full, it gets a lot trickier since the opening times on the other parks aren't as late. I wonder if they might play around with the courses to take advantage of the late Epcot opening times too? Obviously doesn't solve issues regarding required road closures, etc.

I think the 11 opening time works well for half too and does give room to work with. Those 3 can definitely be worked around for epcot. For the half (and full), MK is the place that limits how late runners can start. That is the end is the challenge for disney - right now to do races you need to spread start times out more then normal but MK presents a big bottleneck is how much they can be spread out (and full has other issues).

If disney really is comfortable being probably the largest race in the US to run since march, this is how I'd do it. First, kill the full. Too many logistical issues for 2021 in disney. Run 5k and 10k with staggered start times over around a 2-3 hour period - each person gets a designated start time and a time when they can enter the corrals. With 11am open for epcot that is doable. Now for the half since you have 2 days split the already reduced field in half and run half on Sat and half on Sun giving more time to spread people out and spread them out as much as possible to still hit that MK deadline (again assigned start times).

 

[roxymama]

I still wonder what the "expo" will look like when a race weekend gets the green light. As someone who usually loves a good race expo; I'm also someone who tends to fly in the day before my disney races and has to cram arrival, rental or DME, hotel, expo, park, going to bed early etc all in one day while my family is "put out" by me cramming all this stuff in to their day one. I've skipped race merch so many times to not inconvenience my family further while I race here and there in minnie vans or cabs. I've been dying to be able to have packets mailed or waiting at the hotel even if it meant spending more money. (I realize why in non-pandemic times they'd rather people all go to the expo; I totally get it. I'd even spend hours there if weren't for the above reasons...like if it were just a local race. I'm just hoping that packet mailing is a nice side effect for the first few races that we can skip the expo stress. Maybe with emergency bib pickup somewhere for mail issues.)

I say this when it is ironic that MW will be a solo trip so technically I can take all the time in the world on day one to look at merch without feeling guilty about it, but I'd still prefer to skip it. But also I only have a few precious park passes and there are shorter park hours....so yeah I've talked myself back into wanting a mailing.

 

[PrincessV]

If we are being honest, runDisney prior to COVID wasn't needed anymore to bring people to the parks. The parks were busy enough on their own.

THIS ^ And now the ironic twist that WDW could really use rD to get heads in beds, but can't hold races due to the very pandemic reducing tourism. So when tourism picks back up because we find a way around this pandemic thing... does WDW still want or need rD?? On my most cynical days, I suspect rD exists now only to bring in short-term, no-interest "loans" to keep things afloat, courtesy of race registrations rD knows will be refunded to us down the road. On my most optimistic days, I like to think rD has shown it can support itself AND turn a profit with greatly reduced race caps and the show will go on! Most of my days fall somewhere in the middle.

 

[GuinnessRunner]

THIS ^ And now the ironic twist that WDW could really use rD to get head sin beds, but can't hold races due to the very pandemic reducing tourism. So when tourism picks back up because we find a way around this pandemic thing... does WDW still want or need rD?? On my most cynical days, I suspect rD exists now only to bring in short-term, no-interest "loans" to keep things afloat, courtesy of race registrations rD knows will be refunded to us down the road. On my most optimistic days, I like to think rD has shown it can support itself AND turn a profit with greatly reduced race caps and the show will go on! Most of my days fall somewhere in the middle.

I'm as cynical as they come as well, and have no doubt that every $ counts, but to an organization the size of Disney, I would guess they don't need the no interest loan, unless it's somehow only connected with rD. For most larger companies, while they certainly track profit/loss for each group, all funds are swept into the same account and when you consider Disney is reportedly losing $1 billion a month right now, it gives you a sense of how little the race registrations mean to them overall. I also think that, once things start to open back up, it will still take a few years until the occupancy levels return to what they were at WDW, so they could use the races to help. I would suspect that using a race would be cheaper for them then offering discounts, etc. to get people to come.

<edited to correct that loss estimate is $1 billion per month from the parks division>

 

[Krandor]

I still wonder what the "expo" will look like when a race weekend gets the green light. As someone who usually loves a good race expo; I'm also someone who tends to fly in the day before my disney races and has to cram arrival, rental or DME, hotel, expo, park, going to bed early etc all in one day while my family is "put out" by me cramming all this stuff in to their day one. I've skipped race merch so many times to not inconvenience my family further while I race here and there in minnie vans or cabs. I've been dying to be able to have packets mailed or waiting at the hotel even if it meant spending more money. (I realize why in non-pandemic times they'd rather people all go to the expo; I totally get it. I'd even spend hours there if weren't for the above reasons...like if it were just a local race. I'm just hoping that packet mailing is a nice side effect for the first few races that we can skip the expo stress. Maybe with emergency bib pickup somewhere for mail issues.)

I say this when it is ironic that MW will be a solo trip so technically I can take all the time in the world on day one to look at merch without feeling guilty about it, but I'd still prefer to skip it. But also I only have a few precious park passes and there are shorter park hours....so yeah I've talked myself back into wanting a mailing.

IMO no expo this year in the traditional sense. It will be packet pickup only.. get in, get stuff and leave. We may even see like space coast where they include medals at packet pickup so there is no touch point at finish.

 

[Steveg2112]

What is the possibility of them coming up with a new course (particularly the full) that starts at the MK parking lot to get us through MK sooner and makes more use of the smaller roads and avoids the need to close World Drive? Would it be feasible to get a new course mapped in the available time, even it meant not being certified and usable as a Boston qualifier?

 

[Krandor]

What is the possibility of them coming up with a new course (particularly the full) that starts at the MK parking lot to get us through MK sooner and makes more use of the smaller roads and avoids the need to close World Drive? Would it be feasible to get a new course mapped in the available time, even it meant not being certified and usable as a Boston qualifier?

Anything is possible but typically the full starts and ends at epcot. if you start at magic kingdom you'd have to finish at MK (which isn't feasible) or if you finish at epcot you'd have to find somewhere to add about 5-6 miles.

but yeah a non-certified course could be done but the biggest issue would be the number of people at disney that have to approve things like that. I remember reading an article from the ccompany that used to do them on the west coast and they talked about how long and how many meeetings it took to get course approval. So I think the red tape to go through.

 

[huskies90]

Lots of good stuff being discussed. Here are my thoughts:

I think that once things are considered “safe” whatever that means, things will quickly go back to normal. I don’t think it will take long for people to come back to the parks. I think it will be more like flood gates opening. I do hope some of the things they are doing to clean, provide hand sanitizer and even social distancing stay indefinitely. If I never hear “move forward and use all available space” again, I will not be disappointed.

As for the future of runDisney, this will be a good opportunity for them to cut back. I can see them doing more of the more profitable virtual races as all they need to do is create a cool medal and people will eat it up.

As for MW 2021, they have had months to plan so I know it could be done - especially with the reduced field. I don’t think they want to take on the burden and the easier path is to make the races virtual, hand out some cool medals and make more money.

If by some miracle, the races happen, I agree, the 5K and 10K should work with EPCOT opening later. For all the races, there is a tremendous amount of space in the EPCOT parking lot and they could use it to coral very small groups as soon as they arrive - kinda like a huge spread out waiting area with social distancing. And then slowly march each small group to the starting area after the race starts. This also solves the transportation problem. It just means people will need to be there early, get to their mini coral and wait.

The only way the half and full work is to start the races earlier - say 4AM? And then maybe reduce the pace limit to 14 or 15 min/mile which would probably affect people less if there are limited or no character stops. Then, they do everything other races are doing, masks when not running, mail bibs/shirts and possibly medals to resort, no expo, water in small plastic bottles on course, etc.

 

[nekonekoneko]

If rD offers race packet delivery to on-site resorts, even for like $20, I'll take it! That could be a way for them to reduce crowds at the expo. Also, think about all the partially filled buses to and from WWOS.