2020 points charts...

[bobbiwoz]

Until your renter gets themselves and your family kicked out of the resort for doing something dumb.

Could happen.

 

[Grumpy6264]

here is an option....

As 2Brs are subsidized over all other offerings?
SUBLET - book a 2BR, offer a bedroom for rent. A WHOLE new class of DVC rentals . DVC , with this chart, has created a HUGE problem for WDW... Rentals will increase.

I am not sure how these changes have created a huge problem. How will rentals increase? Not arguing with you, just trying to follow your logic.

 

[Dean]

The biggest surprise to me is that December 1-14 is still Adventure Season. I thought for sure they'd make that Dream or Magic and drop 2 weeks elsewhere to balance that out. That's a super-popular time nowadays. (Didn't used to be back when the dates were originally allocated.)

There is no requirement to have the same number of days in any given season or even to retain the season. They could have just taken the 2 weeks away or likely better from a system standpoint, just rolled Choice and Adventure all together and possible change early Dec to Dream.

If you look at the chart I posted, you will see that only the 2BR went down during the Dream and Magic Seasons. And the Studios and 1BRs more than offset that decrease through their own raised points for the same season. As I look at it further, there is no way this represents a balance in total points.

I don't think anyone is getting hosed...I just think that Disney screwed up the 2020 point charts in some instances and will have to modify them. If they never change them, then the hosing begins.

Others said it Tom but this posts makes me think you didn't hear what they were saying. For lockoff's they are ONLY counted as if they are not locked off. The smaller components of a lockoff don't come into play in the calculations. For any resort with dedicated smaller units there is a back door protection because those smaller units are counted separately but only the dedicated units. Let's say you have a DVC resort with only ten 2 BR lockoff's. They could leave the chart exactly the same except they increase ALL studios and 1 BR for the entire year as long as it's no more than a 20% change in a given year.

When were the charts last adjusted? This is the first I am aware of it and we've owned since 03. Since we don't take the same trip every year or even every other year, I haven't knowingly been affected by it.

IIRC the last big change was for the 2010/2011 charts and it took 2 years because some changes would have violated the 20% change limitation. Which proved a point I'd made along, that yearly change limitations offered essentially no protections.

 

[Granny]

Others said it Tom but this posts makes me think you didn't hear what they were saying. For lockoff's they are ONLY counted as if they are not locked off. The smaller components of a lockoff don't come into play in the calculations. For any resort with dedicated smaller units there is a back door protection because those smaller units are counted separately but only the dedicated units. Let's say you have a DVC resort with only ten 2 BR lockoff's. They could leave the chart exactly the same except they increase ALL studios and 1 BR for the entire year as long as it's no more than a 20% change in a given year.

Dean..thanks for the clarification. I now understand that Disney can do with the lock-off smaller units (l/o studio and l/o 1BR) whatever they want (within 20%) since they are not counted. I'm surprised by this, but now understand it. I'm surprised because apparently Disney doesn't have to take into account how the units are booked (primarily breaking up the 2BR lock off). If that is taken into account, I'm pretty sure the total point requirements have gone up quite a bit.

It has been an interesting education. Even had I memorized my contract, I doubt that I would have known this fact. But thanks to you and others, I think I have a handle on it now. I appreciate the time you gave to respond to this.

 

[Dean]

Dean..thanks for the clarification. I now understand that Disney can do with the lock-off smaller units (l/o studio and l/o 1BR) whatever they want (within 20%) since they are not counted. I'm surprised by this, but now understand it. I'm surprised because apparently Disney doesn't have to take into account how the units are booked (primarily breaking up the 2BR lock off). If that is taken into account, I'm pretty sure the total point requirements have gone up quite a bit.

It has been an interesting education. Even had I memorized my contract, I doubt that I would have known this fact. But thanks to you and others, I think I have a handle on it now. I appreciate the time you gave to respond to this.

Sure, my guess is the total points used will be roughly neutral as some will move to 2 BR that might have booked smaller otherwise. And I suspect that's largely the goal. If so, there are other things they can do also in this regard including a minimum stay of some type or another even if just for bookings made at 11 months out. I wouldn't be surprised if it meant they were going to enforced the occupancy limits, esp in the 1 BR sleep 4 ones and the 2 BR associated options.

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

OKW full year points required
2019 vs 2020
Studio 5026 5316
1 BR 10385 10616
2 BR 13956 13948
GV 22199 22733
all went up EXCEPT 2BR went down 8 points for the entire year.
I also did not include Feb 29 in the 2020 numbers.
Somehow DVC came up with an increase of 1,047 points from 2019 to 2020????

becuase there's what - 25* GVs on the whole property? If you happen to have the points and if you can get 1/25. (*no worries, someone will quickly correct that number) but the fact is there are only a handful vs all of the other rooms.

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

Sure, my guess is the total points used will be roughly neutral as some will move to 2 BR that might have booked smaller otherwise. And I suspect that's largely the goal. If so, there are other things they can do also in this regard including a minimum stay of some type or another even if just for bookings made at 11 months out. I wouldn't be surprised if it meant they were going to enforced the occupancy limits, esp in the 1 BR sleep 4 ones and the 2 BR associated options.

I would absolutely love to see the rules enforced. New ones, too, - for throw away rooms and offsite guests using buses.

 

[Dean]

I would absolutely love to see the rules enforced. New ones, too, - for throw away rooms and offsite guests using buses.

Sure, no comfort animals, pool crashing, room stuffing, etc. And also no flexibility in points usage, banking, etc other than in a formal prescribed format like they do for Hurricanes. The problem now is that it's far too inconsistent. I'm not naive enough to think it'd be 100% effective but an effort would make a big difference though Disney is nothing if not inconsistent.

 

[PetePanMan]

may have missed but I am surprised there is not more of an outrage on the boards re: the massive increase in annual dues for 2019. I just saw them today and was quite taken back. Not happy

 

[mom2missmous]

We had been considering adding on more points but not after this mess!

 

[WB1971]

may have missed but I am surprised there is not more of an outrage on the boards re: the massive increase in annual dues for 2019. I just saw them today and was quite taken back. Not happy

I think there is quite a bit of outrage. Many have been placated about the dues because supposedly it is paying for raises for employees. I for one will tell a coworker who was interested in buying in that he way want to reconsider given last two months developments. (Dues and reallocation). The cost of customer (owner/member) dissatisfaction is going to bite Disney on this I think.

 

[zavandor]

may have missed but I am surprised there is not more of an outrage on the boards re: the massive increase in annual dues for 2019. I just saw them today and was quite taken back. Not happy

Looking at the detailed budget for almost all resorts, every expense has gone up in a similar way as the previous years, except Mousekeeping, which went up a lot.
CM are getting a pay raise. It will go from $10 to $13 during 2019, then up again to $14 in 2020 and $15 in 2021. So the biggest spike in our dues will be this year, then further smaller increase are expected the following two years.
No one like to pay more, but most of us understand it and many have expressed that they prefer that CM are paid a reasonable pay so they are ok with the change.
The difference with the point reallocation is that reading the POS, ie the rules that DVC have given themselves and that we have signed, the current reallocation is clearly illegal.

 

[DougEMG]

We had been considering adding on more points but not after this mess!

I ended up closing on a contract just before all this mess went down. With the seller taking so long to get their documents in I was kind of hoping that they would go past the 60 days closing window and I could walk away. No luck though as they got it in with a few days to spare. Definitely though I wouldn't be buying a contract now till I see how this all shakes out. My trust in Disney has been shaken.

 

[Dean]

I ended up closing on a contract just before all this mess went down. With the seller taking so long to get their documents in I was kind of hoping that they would go past the 60 days closing window and I could walk away. No luck though as they got it in with a few days to spare. Definitely though I wouldn't be buying a contract now till I see how this all shakes out. My trust in Disney has been shaken.

Maybe it'll make prices pull back and buying in will make more sense, not less.

 

[jarestel]

may have missed but I am surprised there is not more of an outrage on the boards re: the massive increase in annual dues for 2019.

That was last week's outrage, This week it's the points reallocation.

 

[Madame]

That was last week's outrage, This week it's the points reallocation.

To be fair, there wasn’t that much outrage. People must have a lot more money than me, or a lot less points (those two things are probably linked). Most shoulder shrugged & moved on.

 

[PetePanMan]

To be fair, there wasn’t that much outrage. People must have a lot more money than me, or a lot less points (those two things are probably linked). Most shoulder shrugged & moved on.

I am with you...our resort has a 9.5% annual due increase which in my world is pretty shocking (although I get that a big chuck at least relates to wage increases). I am assuming that massive ticket price increases are also coming given wage increases.

 

[DougEMG]

To be fair, there wasn’t that much outrage. People must have a lot more money than me, or a lot less points (those two things are probably linked). Most shoulder shrugged & moved on.

The difference is that the MF increase was easily explained and accepted as valid by the wage increase. Having 1 bedrooms go up in cost when they are the last to book, makes no sense and is not so easy to accept.

 

[Madame]

The difference is that the MF increase was easily explained and accepted as valid by the wage increase. Having 1 bedrooms go up in cost when they are the last to book, makes no sense and is not so easy to accept.

Agreed. It’s simply that we’re being referred to as drama queens on FB & other boards in order to discount our concerns. I find low drama, more reasoning here.

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

may have missed but I am surprised there is not more of an outrage on the boards re: the massive increase in annual dues for 2019. I just saw them today and was quite taken back. Not happy

~400 % in 25 yrs.