Screaming children

[justhat]

Originally posted by Deb & Bill
My take on this one is that the parent knows how long their child can continue until they are tired. So if the parent has made a late dinner seating because it was the only one they could get, they probably knew in advance that their kiddo was going to be tired and hungry long before they were served their dinner. I see far too many kids being pushed around the parks in strollers who are whining and crying only because Mom and Dad wanted to stay in the park longer to do more/see more. I was amazed to see so many small children at the Halloween party at 11PM. They probably should have been in bed hours before that.

Just because you are at WDW, a nice dining facility, etc., doesn't mean that you should upset your child's normal schedule. It's bound to cause the poor kid a problem. Only Mom and Dad know now long their kiddo will last before they can't take any more. Don't ignore that knowledge that only you have.

That can be true, however it's not always the case. Kids can be very unpredictable and so the kid who can normally last till 10pm or later (like my 3yo niece), may just get so overwhelmed after a day at the MK that at 8pm they're screaming. Other kids simply have no schedule, like my daughter, so each day is different and presents its own challenges. Of course, my daughter is very happy as long as I'm holding her, so no matter what time it is or where we are, I can be sure she won't cry cause if she fussed I'd hold her and she'd stop. Now, once she's a bit bigger this probably won't work (and unfortunately it doesn't work during the night when I want to sleep!) and I'll have to find new strategies, but as of now I'm okay. But if you have a kid like this, who is normally fine, you might not realize that being in WDW would cause new problems.

If kids are at a late dinner, it could have been the only one the family could get. Though I know that's hard for any of us to imagine, but it is true since many people have no idea that there are so many restaurants in WDW. When we went to WDW in May, it was with extended family and friends, most of which who had never been there before. One night we were invited to dinner at the CG with one couple on the trip, and the others were left to fend for themselves. Despite my info given to them pre-trip, they didn't know you should make a PS or what time restaurants opened or closed. So my SILs and my then 2 yo niece ended up having to eat at the snack bar at the hotel at 10pm because every place they tried in Epcot was booked and they didn't realize the park closed at 9pm. Now, my niece stays up late to begin with, so not a problem for her, but for some kids this would have been a problem, but not something her mom or aunt could have anticipated. This would not have happened to me as I planned before I went, but having never been there, my SIL didn't understand my need to plan, and still would not know how many possible places she could have eaten in. Lots of parents don't want their kids to eat cheeseburgers for every meal so they try to pick a sit down dinner, and when they get a PS time of 8:50, they may not know there are other restaurants, and therefore earlier dining times.

And Scrappymags, you're very right about every parent thinking they're perfect and so are their kids. I learned that working in day camp when I was 14. Of course, I hope not to be like that, but I'm sure I'll fall into that trap from time to time.

 

[pixiedust23]

My personal opinion (you don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with it) is...

If a child is having a meltdown in a ride (aka crying and screaming, and not just being a regular kid who's gonna talk and ask ?'s) you should leave the attraction. It's common courtesy to those around you. Otherwise you are entitled to stay and enjoy it with your child who is prolly enjoying the attraction as well, but is just more inquisitive than grown ups.

If a child is having a meltdown at a restaurant, it's time to go. You can always take your food to go and they clearly are too tired to be where they are.

If they are crying and having a tantrum b/c you won't buy them something, don't give in to them to shut them up. I've seen many parents do this, and it just teaches the child that if they cry they'll get what they want. So maybe it would be best to take them out of the store and I agree that it was ok to get on the bus with a crying child. You need to get them back to "home" wherever that might be at the time, and I have a lot more respect for parents who understand that then trying to make them "stick it out" (so i forget who's son was having a tantrum at DTD, but good job. I commend you.)

I guess that's my take on kids and I'm only 22. I dont' have any yet, but most of my income for the last couple years came from babysitting (4 mo-11yo) so i've seen it all.

 

[KathAnn]

I've posted before and while I understand meltdowns from tired, fractious children who're being hauled around a theme park when they need a nap, downtime, or just plain feeding, what I don't understand is the few parents who allow a complete hairy fit and DO NOTHING. That's what this thread is about. People who do nothing, but sit in the restaurant finishing their desserts or wine, while their offspring run round the place causing a riot.

Many people have written about how they cope (or in my case, don't cope well) with badly behaved children, and it's been an eye-opener. I've had excellent advice (especially from T&B), and the occasional "off" comment from others, but my big beef, and I think most of the other Singles and Solos who've posted, is these so called parents who think it's ok to sit back and let Tornado Tot blow him/herself out.

I'm off to WDW this Thursday and I can hardly wait! Two weeks of sun, fun and shopping!

 

[disneyjunkie]

Originally posted by KathAnn
I've posted before and while I understand meltdowns from tired, fractious children who're being hauled around a theme park when they need a nap, downtime, or just plain feeding, what I don't understand is the few parents who allow a complete hairy fit and DO NOTHING. That's what this thread is about. People who do nothing, but sit in the restaurant finishing their desserts or wine, while their offspring run round the place causing a riot.

Many people have written about how they cope (or in my case, don't cope well) with badly behaved children, and it's been an eye-opener. I've had excellent advice (especially from T&B), and the occasional "off" comment from others, but my big beef, and I think most of the other Singles and Solos who've posted, is these so called parents who think it's ok to sit back and let Tornado Tot blow him/herself out.

I'm off to WDW this Thursday and I can hardly wait! Two weeks of sun, fun and shopping!

Don't think that singles and solos are the only ones that feel this way. I'm a parent and I agee with you 100%.

 

[justhat]

I agree about kids who run around screaming in a restaurant, though I've never personally seen this happen in WDW or anywhere else so I can't say anything about the parents/kids involved. On the rare occasions when this occurs (I say rare since I've been eating out since I was a child, and as far as I can remember, I'd say the past 20 years or so, I have never encountered this), I still wouldn't judge the parents as I don't know what their situation is. I don't think they should let a child run around eating bread from someone else's table, but again, I don't know their situation so I will not say they're bad parents.

I do have a question though, about giving in to kids and appropriate behavior. If the child is throwing a fit in a restaurant because they want to leave, whether it's to get to a ride, back to the room, whatever, should you leave the restaurant with them or not? The reason I ask because wouldn't this be showing the child that if they scream and cry they get what they want? Would it be better to take them out and give in, or let them have their fit, and realize that despite their screams they whave to stay with their family until the meal is over? I really don't know what the 'correct' answer is, if there is one, so that's why I'm asking. Obviously if the kid is screaming to go on Dumbo, then you wouldn't take them out to go on the ride, but if they just want to leave the restaurant in general, do you leave?

 

[Tigger&Belle]

KathAnn, I love that--Tornado Tot!

How has your neice been doing lately?

Sometimes a toddler or preschooler does need to just have a blow out, but that should never be done in a restaurant, show, or attraction. Outside on a bench, in the car, etc is different, but not where it ruins a good experience for everyone else.

I thought about this thread yesterday. I was going into a public restroom at the mall. As I was approaching the door (but not real close) someone came out and the door banged behind her a few times. I thought that was kind of strange. When I opened the door it hit a young child who was on the floor kicking the door (from the inside). When I went into the stall the child continued to kick the door, which was annoying to listen to and she was in a dangerous spot. One of those "what is the mother thinking letting her child do that" moments. I give my kids plenty of leeway in their behavior, but that was a little much for me. The family left before I did or I probably would have shown my concern that they child was probably going to get hurt hanging out where the door would hit her. DUH!

Again, the child was being a kid, but the mother sure wasn't being an adult!

Justhat, my children have never screamed because they want to leave a restaurant, but if I was in that situation I would remove the child until they calm down and then return and do it as many times as needed until we got through the meal. That kind of thing has really only happened when my child was coming down with something, though.

With my son it's not that he has a lot of tantrums at almost 5yo, but that he is just plain loud, so he gets lectured and removed afair amount of time (and sent to his room at home). Things are improving at least and one day he'll be grown and I won't have to deal with this (thank goodness and boohoo).

T&B

 

[Tigger&Belle]

KathAnn, looks like I'll jsut miss you--we leave for WDW 1 month from Monday. Too bad, you could have met my son. Uh, maybe it's better this way. He is very often such a charmer to strangers, though--not shy, will chat and ask questions, etc. I get a lot of positive comments about him since he is engaging and a comedian. Of course they don't have to listen to him 24/7. LOL

T&B

 

[Deb & Bill]

Originally posted by justhat
...I do have a question though, about giving in to kids and appropriate behavior. If the child is throwing a fit in a restaurant because they want to leave, whether it's to get to a ride, back to the room, whatever, should you leave the restaurant with them or not? The reason I ask because wouldn't this be showing the child that if they scream and cry they get what they want? Would it be better to take them out and give in, or let them have their fit, and realize that despite their screams they whave to stay with their family until the meal is over? I really don't know what the 'correct' answer is, if there is one, so that's why I'm asking. Obviously if the kid is screaming to go on Dumbo, then you wouldn't take them out to go on the ride, but if they just want to leave the restaurant in general, do you leave?

I think what I would do in this situation is to remove the child from the dining room. Take them to a quieter place away from the diners (maybe the lobby, maybe just outside the door) until they get quiet, then rejoin the party inside the restaurant. But I sure wouldn't let the child make the decision where we were going to be. If one parent is still inside dining with the rest of the family, I would sure hope that he or she would come out and swap places with me so I could eat my dinner in peace. If the child got quiet, we both could rejoin the party in the restaurant. But we would stay near the restaurant. We just shouldn't cause the other diners to winch in pain from the noise. Take the kid out!

I see this all the time at church, when a small child will get restless and start to cry. One parent takes the child outside. A little while later, the other parent will go out and the first parent returns to the church service.

I still stick with my original thought, that only the parent has a clue when the child may approach meltdown time. And that they shouldn't wait until it becomes a full blown disruption before they do anything about it. Nip it in the bud. Nip it. (what movie was that from anyway???? )

 

[lunabkat]

Delilah i think you did just fine with the tamtrum. Let's face it, if people don't want to deal with kids throwing fits, they don't go to Disney (lol). It's not so much the kids having a fit that the parent is trying to do something about that most people have a problem with. I think the resentment stems from the parents who don't do ANYTHING but let junior run the show.

Have fun on your trip.

 

[bavaria]

The other day I was in a hotel lobby and saw a little girl about 4 yo climb on a bell cart, over the luggage, and perch ON THE TOP OF THE CART, laying across where the top ball is.

I went over and said 'honey, I don't think that's safe, and you should get down' and helped her down. Her parents were sitting nearby and just GLARED at me.

I felt sad for their DD - she was very cute but I was really concerned that she would get hurt, and it was apparent that her parents were not worried.

I hesitate to say this, but when I was in WDW in September with a group of 10 including 3 kids, one of the mums brought her nanny, and the other mentioned several times that she missed hers, who was at home. Some parents are simply not experienced at being parents. As I mentioned before, it was Auntie Bavaria who entertained the kids - very willingly of course! But part of me was sad that the kids didn't get to experience so much with their parents.....

 

[pixiedust23]

"I don't think they should let a child run around eating bread from someone else's table, but again, I don't know their situation so I will not say they're bad parents. "

Ok I dont know how to post quotes so that's the best I can do. I would just like you to reread what you wrote. If a small child was running around a restaurant, came up to your table, took food off of it, and then left, while the parents were sitting in view enjoying their own meal and not appearing at all apologetic you wouldnt think they were bad parents? So if a child was stealing from the gift shop, and the parents were looking and not saying anything would you still feel they werent bad parents b/c you didnt "know their situation"? I'm sorry but there is really just no reason for a child to be acting in this manner! I completely agree kids will be kids, but parents also need to be parents..aka showing their kids right from wrong. I'm! really sorry but what you said just made me extremely angry!!!

 

[justhat]

No, I cannot say they are bad parents. They should have acted in that situation, but that instance alone does not make one a bad parent. They could be great parents and simply werent' paying attention and didn't notice their child was doing that. Yes, they should be watching at all times, but it they make one mistake then i can't say they're bad parents. If that were the case, we'd all be bad parents. When my daughter was a few days old, I was making her a bottle of pumped breastmilk, as I had an infection and nursing her was too painful. Well it was about 2am, I was exhausted, in pain, plus on medications making me somewhat out of it. I filled her bottle with old milk. It had been sitting out hours (after having been refrigerated) and I had it by the sink with the intention of cleaning it in the morning. I accidentally used it, but didn't realize it till after she had consumed it, when I brought the bottle to the kitchen sink. It was a mistake, one I was very sorry for, but it was just that, a mistake. I don't think it made me a bad parent, but perhaps if you had seen me do only that you would have thought so. For me, this is the same for parents of kids runnig around at a restaurant. Maybe they just made a mistake, maybe they're not usually like that, I can't judge them because I don't know them or their situation. If they were watching their child run around and saw the kid take food from another table and didn't care, well then I might think differently. But my guess is that if this happened, the parents probably didn't notice. Maybe the child had been walking around their own table and then wandered off without the parents realizing it. Maybe the kid wanted to see something, like a dessert tray, away from the table and the parents had said it was okay, but then the child started acting up. I don't know how it happened, so I can't judge on it.

 

[pixiedust23]

Just that- I think we are having a miscommunication. Of course everyone makes mistake, like in your case. And I'm not saying when children wander off that that in that case you are a bad parent. Children wander by nature. They are inquisitive to this big new world around them. I was referring to children who are running around, screaming, making a huge disruption to the entire restaurant. The parents turn around see the child and either laugh or just raise a hand in the air with a face as if what am I to do. Maybe this is something you haven't seen...but I have, and it's not pretty. We have all seen that cute little curious child walking off from his/her parents at a restaurant or in church, etc. That's not what I'm referring to at all, I'm talking about parents who have a blatant disregard for wanting to disicpline their child.

 

[NIK]

I SOOO agree with you Pixie. I've just got back from Disneyland Paris and most of the kids there were well behaved. However I stood in a queue for ages waiting for the steamer to come, whilst behind me a mum was allowing her three kids to swing merrily on the barrier, clonking people in the legs, left right and centre. Everyone was glaring and complaining about this but she did nothing, just continued her conversation.

The wretched children then proceeded to push through the queue of people, closely followed by Mamma who clearly saw an opportunity to queue jump. What was this teaching those children? That it's okay to be a menace to all around and then not have the grace and patience to wait your turn?

Momentary distraction is one thing, but allowing your kids to run riot and upset all and sundry whilst being well aware that this is what they are doing is disgraceful. I'm not talking of the child that has 'difficulties' but about those families who simply make no effort to moderate the behaviour of their children.

Isn't that what parenting is about? I kind of wonder what kind of bullying, horrible grown ups some of these little so-and-sos are going to make.

 

[delilah]

Originally posted by Deb & Bill
My take on this one is that the parent knows how long their child can continue until they are tired. So if the parent has made a late dinner seating because it was the only one they could get, they probably knew in advance that their kiddo was going to be tired and hungry long before they were served their dinner. I see far too many kids being pushed around the parks in strollers who are whining and crying only because Mom and Dad wanted to stay in the park longer to do more/see more. I was amazed to see so many small children at the Halloween party at 11PM. They probably should have been in bed hours before that.

Just because you are at WDW, a nice dining facility, etc., doesn't mean that you should upset your child's normal schedule. It's bound to cause the poor kid a problem. Only Mom and Dad know now long their kiddo will last before they can't take any more. Don't ignore that knowledge that only you have.

This is so interesting. My son has had meltdowns similar to the one at DTD three times in the entire 6yrs and 8mos of his life. The first was when he was 11mos old. We had just been downtown at INS getting his citizenship (he is from Korea) and Social Security (to get the important social security number). This took all morning, and we stopped at a favorite restaurant to celebrate. He had fallen asleep in the car, but, unfortunate woke up when we went inside. He had a horrible tantrum. I ate two bites of my meal, and we got up to leave. The second, he was at daycare. He was less than 2 years old. He had been awakened from a nap, and started into a tantrum. It was so scary to the daycare staff, and had been going on so long, that they called me at work, and I had to go pick him up. He was still mid-tantrum when we got back to my office, 20 minutes later. Finally, I actually got him to go back to sleep. Then, there was the day at DTD, two years or more later, and about 2pm. All we had done that day was go to DTD. He was usually nap resistant, so, I don't think he was tired. Now, I certainly know it is not ok to wake him up from a deep sleep. He will be upset even now, but not really a major meltdown. But, after a 20 minute bus ride, and 1-2 hours walking around DTD? Hmmm.....

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Originally posted by NIK


Isn't that what parenting is about? I kind of wonder what kind of bullying, horrible grown ups some of these little so-and-sos are going to make.

You know darn well what kind of adults this kids will turn into...like the man who didn't want to wait in traffic yesterday who cut out of the line (saw him in my rear view mirror), cut into the left turn lane until he saw an opening and cut back in. Or the man who was behind me at line to get into Costco one day who tried (notice I use the word *tried) ) to weasel his way in front of the crowd even though he'd just gotten there. The ones who pretend they don't see a line so they can cut in it. I'm sure we all have plenty of stories to tell (hopefully none of us are those rude adults!).

I really (here I go again) think that we all basically agree. When children are disruptive they should be taken out of a restaurant, movie, show, etc. I don't mean a little squirmy, but yelling, running around, etc. And it all depends on the actual place as to what is acceptable. If it's a noisy restaurant that's very different than a quiet show.

We should all ne understanding of special circumstances that a particular family might be facing. Some kids are nice and quiet, others by nature aren't (still doesn't mean they should be allowed to disrupt, but sympathy and understanding from strangers is wonderful). And, of course, there are special situations/handicaps that can be fairly insivible to other people.

And Bavaria, if you run into us at WDW, I hope my son is in a "charm strangers" mood! LOL

T&B

 

[spiceycat]

no offense - but I have no kids - but you have got to realize that for many, many people going to wfw is a once in a life time thing.

many of us go every year.

lot of people can only afford to go once.

when their kids start yelling they are going to ignore them - because they can't afford to leave.

Now if WDW offered these parents tickets to come back at other time - then yes I think more parents would leave - but WDW does not.....

if you saved, saved and saved for 5 years (or more) then when you get there your kid acts up - what would you do?

yes if would be wonderful if these people could leave - but in many situations - this will probably be their only trip to WDW. they can't afford to kept coming back - as many of these boards do.

If these kids bother you so much - then while don't you leave? You can come back. Or just go to another park or restuarant - tell the manager why you are leaving - and perhaps they could move you - or not charge you.

before you start judging their parenting skills take a good look at them.

also eating off others plates - I think this is a culture thing - in some countries this is a compliment. Now in this one it is not - but kept in mind that WDW is an international place - not just a US one.

alot of the complaints are over (in my opinion) a difference in culture not rudeness - but that is my opinion.

before you judge someone walk a mile in their shoes.

the parents I get mad at - are the ones who aren't anywhere near the kids - little kids - 10 and 12 (or around those ages) playing in the pool - jumping in a non-jumping zone - scaring little ones - that sort of thing - and where were the parents - who knows they send the bigger sister to tell them to come in and eat.....

never leave your child alone at the pool!!! you never know when a emergency is going to happen!!!

as far as breaking in lines - that is rude - however - the one time I did it - I waited behind these people - they were in separate lines and they were talking...talking...talking...talking - for several minutes - there was NO ONE in front of them - they weren't going forward because they were TALKING.... in those cases - hey I am definitely breaking in line.....So were the many people behind and beside me.....

they are reasons for breaking in line - if you are being very, very, very rude to the people behind you by refusing to move forward because you are talking to your friend - hey GET OUT OF THE LINE - the line is no time to be socializing - many people behind you need to go somewhere else and they can't because you are talking....

 

[justhat]

Pixiedust23, I posted a reply yesterday, but I don't see it, so I'll try again.

I was referring to children who are running around, screaming, making a huge disruption to the entire restaurant. The parents turn around see the child and either laugh or just raise a hand in the air with a face as if what am I to do.

This is totally different than the scenario I posted about. I didn't say that if kids were running around screaming, throwing plates in the air, whatever, and their parents smile and laugh at them then they are good parents. I said that if a small child takes bread off of my table then I would not assume his parents are bad parents. They may not have seen the child do it. The child who is running around wildly, yelling and knocking things down would be a totally different story, and not the one I mentioned that you said made you angry. In the situation I posted, I still believe that I cannot say they are bad parents, since it's a fleeting moment that I would be judging on, and I don't know how they would normally act with their child. Again, I have never seen anything like this in any restaurant, even outside of WDW.

Really though, even if they are bad parents, we've all got to expect to see our share of 'bad parents' in WDW, or anyplace kids are allowed, especially when there are tons of kids at any gven moment in any location, like at WDW. We may not like it, but even 'bad parents' want to take their kids to WDW.

 

[justhat]

Spiceycat, ITA. Many people can only go once. Not only do the parents keep moving with their plans despite a complaining child, but the parents themselves get tired/stressed/etc. Then the kids are more likely to 'act up', causing the parents more stress, and well, it just keeps circling. So I'm sure that explains some of the problem cases.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Speaking of cutting in line, I have a funny off-topic story. Years ago (BC--before children) my DH and I were in Washington DC. We walked up to the Washington Monument and walked right on the elevator going to the top. We had a good time looking around and when we returned back down and walked out we realized that we'd just bypassed a very long line, probably an hour long, that was wound around the monument. When we walked up we did it with such purpose that we appeared to be with the group that was going up the elevator at that time.

We got a very good laugh out of that and I have since tried to give people the benefit of the doubt when they may not mean to be cutting in line. Of course most people know what they are doing.

We couldn't have cut in line any better if we'd been trying to. Every time we're in Wash DC now and pass by the Wash Mon we laugh about that incident. One of those "making memories" times!

T&B