Spanking

[luvsJack]

....Really? Wow......well, I can assure you, NOT in the state of New Jersey....kinda scary when you think about it.

It's still legal here. You can sign something saying you do not want your child to be paddled. And you can specify who can and can't do it. I signed one for a few years that stated only the principal could paddle my kids as I did not want to allow a certain teacher to have that right. They never received one anyway so it wasn't necessary.

 

[robinb]

Anyone else find it interesting that @Domo throws this grenade of an OP and hasn't been back to clarify what he saw? And before you say he's been too busy, a quick search of his posting history shows he's taken time out for other posts.

He’s on vacation at WDW now and probably hasn’t had time to check back.

 

[kimmar067]

It's still legal here. You can sign something saying you do not want your child to be paddled. And you can specify who can and can't do it. I signed one for a few years that stated only the principal could paddle my kids as I did not want to allow a certain teacher to have that right. They never received one anyway so it wasn't necessary.

WHAT??? Paddles? I can't wrap my head around having to get 'permission' to paddle one's child!

 

[luvsJack]

Lots. Over 25 years of teaching young children and working with parents, you see and know way too much.

But don't you see, someone else with 25 years of working with children can say that from their experience, the children who are not spanked are the ones out of control?

There are a LOT of kids who are not taught manners, how to behave in public, to respect the belongings or property of others, to respect authority, etc. Chances are some are spanked and some are not. There is WAY more to it than that.

There has been a lot of discussion of behavior modification here or training. And it can work. But it's just another word for discipline. Discipline is just teaching behavior. Punishment is withholding the reward, time out, grounding, spanking. Not all reasons for discipline needs to include punishment.

Whichever form of discipline a parent uses they just have to be consistent. Punishment should fit the crime and not go overboard.

And most of all there is all the rest of parenting that needs to go with it. Attention, love, caring, good nutrition, etc.

 

[kimmar067]

There are a LOT of kids who are not taught manners, how to behave in public, to respect the belongings or property of others, to respect authority, etc. Chances are some are spanked and some are not. There is WAY more to it than that....

ITA.

 

[luvsJack]

WHAT??? Paddles? I can't wrap my head around having to get 'permission' to paddle one's child!

What did you think they did? Lol It's called "paddling" because they use a paddle.

They aren't just wailing away on them. It's normally 3 or 4 very controlled swats with a paddle.

The state law allows it so the signed permission or denial of permission has to be given to parents as part of the law.

Not saying I agree or disagree with it, just stating the facts.

 

[kimmar067]

What did you think they did? It's called "paddling" because they use a paddle....

....I guess that this concept is so foreign to me because teachers, administrators, or otherwise haven't been able to "paddle" or "swat" [or whatever] a child in more than 50 years here....

 

[sam_gordon]

He’s on vacation at WDW now and probably hasn’t had time to check back.

Read my entire post.

 

[luvsJack]

....I guess that this concept is so foreign to me because teachers, administrators, or otherwise haven't been able to "paddle" or "swat" [or whatever] a child in more than 50 years here....

Ahhh. That makes sense. I am not sure it ever will go away here. Most administrators don't use it often.

There is a discipline ladder and it's on there somewhere but a lot skip that step. Problem is when calling home or sending home does nothing and they run out of options. And then some parents will tell them to paddle their child when they call home.

 

[LSUmiss]

I had a lot typed out, but I'll just leave it like this:

I look at it this way... If I don't even hit my animals, why would I hit my kids? Can you imagine hitting your dog with a belt? Or making excuses for someone who did?

That’s a great point! This is just one of those subjects that I just can’t understand how ppl rationalize things. I feel like I’ve tried to understand the other side, but I just can’t.

 

[LSUmiss]

And anyone thinking a three year old understands reasoning the way and adult does tells me all I need to know. Plenty who start out trying to reason, give that up pretty quickly. Do you think I only spanked? Hardly. My kids got time outs when that was appropriate. I do think your "superiority" attitude will come back to bite you. Almost everyone I know (my age and quite a few younger, even many in their 20's) was spanked at least once as a child and none of them have any problems because of it. No one in jail, abusing drugs, abusing spouses, etc. You need to understand there is a HUGE difference between beating someone and swatting them on the butt once or twice.

Calling it lazy parenting is absurd just because you don't agree with how a lot of us parent. No one said your parenting was "lazy" or anything else, but you were quick to pull that one out.

The issue I don’t think anyone is really arguing that a swat on the butt is a big deal. But there are ppl condoning “whippings” with a belt or othe item. That’s what many of of us can’t on board with.

 

[LSUmiss]

See, here's the mistake some make. We, who were spanked and who did spank (at least those I knew) were taught appropriate behavior. We never (or were never) spanked and didn't have a lesson with it. You make it sound like people just spank their kids and walk away. Hardly. We were taught (and taught) appropriate behavior. What do you mean by "better"? I guess you mean your definition of parenting. BTW, are you a parent? I find most people who are appalled by spanking as one tool in discipline have no children and are very idealistic.

I am a parent & do not spank & don’t think anyone should. I’m not concerned about the swat on the butt. But a “whipping” is abusive imo.

 

[robinb]

Read my entire post.

He's had 4 whole posts with 9 sentences total since this one. This is a 9-page thread. It takes a lot more effort to come back here and catch up before he posts here again.

 

[LSUmiss]

I don't think anyone who is "pro-spanking" says every child needs spanked in order to learn lessons. Many people have said different things work for different kids. Some kids need a stern look, others need spanked. Just because you didn't have to spank your kids doesn't mean what you do would work for every child.

So if there's so many things that contribute to out-of-control kids, you can't point to spanking as inciting violence or making those kids terrible people.

What kind of argument is that? How much better would I be if I wasn't spanked? How do you measure that? I have a beautiful wife of 24 years (never divorced), three wonderful kids, a decent sized house in a good area, and a good job. So if I wasn't spanked my life could be better how? Would I have more money? A bigger house? Do kids who weren't spanked win the lottery more? Go into more high paying jobs?

My belief... an occasional spanking (swat on the behind) does not leave lasting damage. If you spank for every transgression, no matter the severity, then yes, it can lead to problems. Again, no one is saying every child needs to be spanked.

No I never said that I can point to spanking as making ppl bad or violent. There are so many things that could contribute to that too...selfish/lazy parents still high on that list too. My point was directed at all the ppl who claim the kids of the world today are so bad b/c they’re not spanked.

 

[luvsJack]

The issue I don’t think anyone is really arguing that a swat on the butt is a big deal. But there are ppl condoning “whippings” with a belt or othe item. That’s what many of of us can’t on board with.

To be clear, I am not exactly condoning it. I would never say to my sons "it's ok to use a belt. My friend did it and they turned out great".

I am just saying that it was one form of punishment that she used and she is/was an effective parent who did a great job raising her kids. So who am I to judge her methods?

Some here were spanked with a belt when they were kids. And they don't feel as they were abused. So who is someone else to say they were?

I think the word "whipping" makes for some awful pictures in one's mind. I am not talking about beating with a belt all over the kid's back, butt and legs. No wailing away at the kid. Just a spanking with a belt instead of a hand. Which is why I switched back to using the word spanking.

Besides, you and others keep failing to recognize that physical abuse can happen with "just a hand".

 

[sk!mom]

See, here's the mistake some make. We, who were spanked and who did spank (at least those I knew) were taught appropriate behavior. We never (or were never) spanked and didn't have a lesson with it. You make it sound like people just spank their kids and walk away. Hardly. We were taught (and taught) appropriate behavior. What do you mean by "better"? I guess you mean your definition of parenting. BTW, are you a parent? I find most people who are appalled by spanking as one tool in discipline have no children and are very idealistic.

Reread my post. I was saying those spanked could be better had they not been spanked. DH and I were spanked and we agreed early on that we would have been better off had we not been.

So what science are you talking about, a few studies?
Maybe you could cite all this scientific research, I'd love to see who is doing it and where the funding comes from

How about the American Psychological Association?
http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx

Or Scientific American https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-science-says-and-doesn-t-about-spanking/

http://goodparent.org/corporal-puni...ce-favoring-the-use-of-disciplinary-spanking/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/07/170731164027.htm

I could go on and on but if you need more just ask Google. The evidence is clear and it lined up with what DH and I felt about our own upbringings.

 

[LSUmiss]

So what science are you talking about, a few studies?
Maybe you could cite all this scientific research, I'd love to see who is doing it and where the funding comes from

Nope. Other forms other of discipline & not spanking (not swats on the butt) are the WIDELY accepted methods by the entire mental health & child development community of professionals based on empirical data. And it’s best practice for assisting families who seek services for help in getting control of their kids. Most who come in have tried spanking. It’s not that spanking is so harmful, it’s that it’s ineffective for the most part or not necessary.

 

[LSUmiss]

Honestly... how do you know who's spanked and who's not? 99% of the "out of control" kids I have seen in my life are total strangers. Even the remaining 1% I have no idea whether they've been spanked or not. Yet according to you MANY of those out of control have been spanked? How do you know? How many out of control kids have you seen?

I saw hundreds in a professional setting & the parents told me. I’m not saying that this is necessarily related b/c I didn’t officially do research on it. But the harsher the corporal punishment the more out-of-control they usually were. It just didn’t work.

 

[Jdbsfw]

A quick pat on the butt seems fine to me but I never understood the “execution” style whippings were the dad would come home from work and pull out the belt or paddle and “discipline” the child for something they did hours earlier....I guess it “worked” for some but, I’m not a fan and always found it creepy

 

[Disneylover99]

But don't you see, someone else with 25 years of working with children can say that from their experience, the children who are not spanked are the ones out of control?

There are a LOT of kids who are not taught manners, how to behave in public, to respect the belongings or property of others, to respect authority, etc. Chances are some are spanked and some are not. There is WAY more to it than that.

There has been a lot of discussion of behavior modification here or training. And it can work. But it's just another word for discipline. Discipline is just teaching behavior. Punishment is withholding the reward, time out, grounding, spanking. Not all reasons for discipline needs to include punishment.

Whichever form of discipline a parent uses they just have to be consistent. Punishment should fit the crime and not go overboard.

And most of all there is all the rest of parenting that needs to go with it. Attention, love, caring, good nutrition, etc.

That's fine. Someone else can come along here and state that. My experiences indicate the opposite.

And I've already mentioned there are lots of reasons for out of control children in my response to @EveDallas who seemed to suggest out of control children are a result of not being spanked.