To Infinity and Beyond - Becoming a Better DopeyBadger (Comments Welcome)

:P



Thanks! A lot of variety and different types of goals. Some accomplishable in less than two weeks and others may take a lifetime.



Funny story. When the medals for marathon weekend came out, I showed G the Kid's medal. She says to me,

G - "Daddy, I'm going to win."
Me - "Oh really?"
G - "Are you running too?"
Me - "I sure am!"
G - "I'm going to beat you too"
Me - "You think you're faster than me."
G - "Yes, watch me."

And then G proceeded to sprint down the hallway. :love:

She asked me if she could run with me this past Sunday at the marathon. I told her not this time, but maybe another time. She said she wants to come running with me outside some time.
Awesomeness, fingers crossed!!
 
WHY?

I sit here now roughly 48 hours after completing the 2017 Milwaukee Lakefront Marathon and wonder "why?" Why did everything seemingly go so well in training and then on race day things just didn't feel right? What was the disconnect between the two and is there something I can learn to use going forward? After every race it's important to be reflective on the experience of the training and the race to glean new information that might be useful going forward. So, why?

Was the training an issue?

At first blush, no. I had one of my highest interval completion rates at 89%. I hit 8/14 marathon tempo workouts perfectly and 12/14 with 80% or greater success. The average pace was a 7:02 min/mile and the last 8 were a 6:59 min/mile average. The long runs were good. The hybrids were good. The faster speed runs were good. I did run the easier runs quite a bit easier than scheduled. But I was aiming to keep my HR at less than 67% HRR per Daniels recommendation (and that's what felt right in training).

If the training were the problem, then the expected result should have been a massive fade at the end of the run. Not sufficient training means I could hold the pace in the beginning but not towards the end. But in reality, I couldn't even hold pace at the beginning. In addition, previous training cycles defined as worse (65% hit rate and 1/7 weeks above 70% hit) generated better results.

There was an indicator though. The last Marathon Tempo workout:

View attachment 274417

I had originally brushed this off as just a single bad run. This tends to happen for me during the taper. So no big deal. I said it had something to do with the sudden rise in T+D over the last couple of weeks. Prior to this run the last T+D over 120 was 8/17/17. But this may have been a warning sign something was wrong.

Was the weather an issue?

At first blush, no. The T+D was 95 in Grafton, minimal wind, and minimal cloud cover. By the end of the race, there was a stiffer wind (13-25 mph) and a T+D of 113. The sun was mostly out at the end as well. But a T+D of 95-113 is certainly reasonable for a marathon. At most, maybe a 0.5% pace adjustment. The wind might add a little extra adjustment as well.

But it's important to look beyond just the raw weather data. If the course is always the same from year to year, then the relative results should be similar as well. I finished in the top 4.6% overall (106/2292). Which means if I look at previous year's 4.6% finisher we can glean an insight whether the weather was indeed worse this year than average. This is based on the idea that the population that runs the Lakefront Marathon is always the same. So a 4.6% finisher one year should be relatively equal to a 4.6% finisher another year. If there is a difference, then one year was probably different than the other by definition of "difficulty".

View attachment 274418

I was 4.6% finisher in 2017. So, as you can see the 4.6% finisher is usually around 3:09-3:12. The two outliers are the last two years (2016 and 2017). 2016 was raining (but I still hit near training pace). 2015 was near perfect conditions (cloudy, tailwind, T+D of 80-90).

So while at first blush the weather seemed fine, it is indeed possible it added a little level of difficulty that went undetected. So, it's possible this would account for about a 3-4 minute (2.2%) difference in time. So not everything, but surprisingly a bit more than expected.

If we are to assume it was a 2.2% increase from "normal" conditions, then my projected time at Mile 17 (3:07:07) would have really been a projection of 3:03:05. I chose Mile 17 because this was before I removed the blind and still was giving Marathon Tempo effort. Given the likely slow down yet to occur after Mile 17, this moves from "at first blush, no" to "probable". A 3:03:05 would have been a likely finishing time.

The question is - would the weather explain the immediate inability to hit pace either unblinded or blinded? Or would it be expected to see a general slow down trend?

Was it something new I tried this training cycle (Beet-It or RunGum)?

Unlikely as both were not being consumed during the last M Tempo run.

I felt as if the Beet-It didn't provide any extra benefits at the end of the day. It sure didn't make me feel any different. I didn't have any noticeable decrease in effort, HR, or relationship between them.

However, I did feel the RunGum was helpful. The caffeine was noticeable and I think it will be something I add to race day going forward. I will likely chew some prior to the race and then again towards the end.

Was it my nutritional diet?

In March 2017, I made another change to my diet. I tried to get away from the sugar and added in a spinach/quinoa salad at lunch instead. During the Lakefront training, I also added in a snack of almonds and 1/2 PB sandwich. But was I eating enough to support the training?

View attachment 274441

3156 total calories: 421g carbs (52%), 101g fat (29%) and 168g protein (21%).

-On days with 90+ min run I'd take an E-Gel (150 calories) and runs at 120-150 min I'd take two (300 calories).
-For weekend, long runs I'd usually have a bagel, PB, honey and banana. But I usually didn't eat the "snack". Which would be a net change of +70 calories, +52g carbs, -15g fat, +1g protein.

View attachment 274440

So, what was my normal caloric burn like?

Well MyFitnessPal estimates my BMR to be 1,722 and my Garmin estimates 2,102. So a bit of a difference.

What about normal active daily life?

View attachment 274451

So "meals consumed" is calories in. Active burn is the exercise and life calories. And either MyFitness Pal or Garmin 235 provides the BMR calculation.

The truth of the matter is this: My weight prior to Lakefront 2016 was 156. My weight leading into the last few weeks of Lakefront 2017 training was 167. When I saw this on the scale, I started to panic a bit. I "felt" a little heavier, but I certainly didn't feel that much larger. So my goal was to get back down to 163-164 pounds by race day. I did this subconsciously and consciously by becoming really busy at work and not being able to eat the snack like I had consistently for the weeks prior (thus 3156 calories became 2683 calories during the taper). In the matter of 10-12 days my weight dropped back down into the 164 range. The question is - when did I make this change? I can't say for sure. I'd venture to guess by at least 9/21 it started, but it very well could have been right before that as well. Dependent on whether you believe the MyFitnessPal BMR or Garmin BMR dictates whether I was running a calorie deficit. And possibly that calorie deficit led to a feeling of no energy and thus flat on race day. Tough to say one way or the other.

Maybe the possible calorie deficit could also explain why it felt it took so much longer to recover from certain workouts. Might explain why I felt the need to go so much slower on easy days. Might explain why I actually gained weight (160 to 167) during this training cycle because I wasn't eating enough. But why would all of these things just suddenly crest to be an issue about 10 days out from the race?

So it begs the question - why?

When I first sat down to write this and before I had researched anything, I thought the answer was going to be clearly the nutrition was the only player. I sabotaged my own race experience at the last moment because of a slight weight gain and a desire to lose some extra pounds before the race. I tried to remind myself that the number on the scale matters less (if high) then does my final race time to me. I want to feel happy and fast. Possibly, my unhealthy relationship with food from my heavier days allowed the pendulum to swing too harshly in the opposite direction to eat too little.

But the weather and comparison of previous finishers in the same area leads me to believe that it might have in fact played a role as well. I certainly felt thirsty quite quickly in this race (having a noticeable deficit in water as soon as mile 4) and my salted face might have been another sign of inappropriate balance in my body. So, a matter of a 2.2% difference in finishing time may have been because of the weather even though it seemed like reasonable conditions.

Regardless, of why... this race will stick with me for a while. It's not that I didn't do well because I certainly did (finishing in the top 4.6% with a very respectable 3:14). But it's just that everything went so well leading right up until the race. As I tell others, no single race defines you. You remember it. You learn from it. You move on from it. This is me moving on from it realizing some factors may have been within my control and others may not have been. But at the end of the day, I put together a very solid race even without my best stuff. So, the next question is - what's next?
I am not an expert on nutrition nor weight, but I'd assume an extra 5-10 pounds would greatly affect marathon performance and VO2Max. Personally this led me to drop weight my self. Additionally, if you are like me, when I'm under fed I just can't generate power and I feel sluggish and labored. I also find that Garmin is not using HR data to determine your BMR, so it's likely off. That said, I do like their calculation of active calories because it is based on HR. If you start using MFP again, I'd recommend finding your BMR and then let your Garmin update you calorie totals. This gives me the most control over my weight, and I no longer lose or gain more than 2 pounds overnight!
 
Honestly? Those races sound awful. Do Chicago.

LOL! Yea, seems like slim pickings for a cold Spring marathon. I wouldn't do just these OR Chicago, but yea I'm in agreement that these just aren't great options.


::yes::

I am not an expert on nutrition nor weight, but I'd assume an extra 5-10 pounds would greatly affect marathon performance and VO2Max. Personally this led me to drop weight my self. Additionally, if you are like me, when I'm under fed I just can't generate power and I feel sluggish and labored. I also find that Garmin is not using HR data to determine your BMR, so it's likely off. That said, I do like their calculation of active calories because it is based on HR. If you start using MFP again, I'd recommend finding your BMR and then let your Garmin update you calorie totals. This gives me the most control over my weight, and I no longer lose or gain more than 2 pounds overnight!

I'd agree that 5-10 pounds would effect performance. The thing is though I'd venture to guess I was around 160-163 for the spring Daniels training so if I had still had the speed to do a 19:30 5k, then it certainly should have been there for the marathon at that weight. I think it was a matter of learning that while 5-10 pounds could effect performance for a marathon, it's not the time to think about that when you're in the taper and trying to keep the energy stores up.

You lost me at 1 mile loop.

:lmao:
 
Who would have thought finding a marathon that meets these criteria would be difficult?

-Boston Qualifier
-Road course
-Temp below 55 consistently year to year
-In March through April
-Driveable Distance from Madison, WI

http://findmymarathon.com/state.php

Leaves me with three choices:

Jailbreak Marathon
Bloop Marathon
Spring Chance BQ.2 Marathon

-Jailbreak is in rural WI and had 209 runners with fastest at 3:00:00. It's a standard course with some rolling hills.
-Bloop is in Milwaukee run at a park. It had 18 runners last year in the marathon (66 HM finishers). It is a one mile loop 26 times. Means I could see my family quite a bit. Winner ran 3:15. Access to self serve aid station.
-Spring Chance BQ.2 is in Geneva, IL. It had 300 qualifiers and I meet the standards to run in 2018 by running within 10 minutes of my BQ time (under 3:15). It is a 3.12 mile loop course.

I kind of like the idea of the Bloop. It certainly wouldn't bother me to run loops over and over (I do that daily). Although that would be a lot of turns.

I just don't know. Do I want to run one of these races in the Spring, or just focus on a HM and wait till the Fall? If I wait till the Fall, then Boston 2019 is certainly out and it becomes Boston 2020.

But, Chicago Marathon 2018 (October) is looking more likely. Steph thought it would be fun to take G to Chicago and make a week of it after the race. Since I've got an auto-qualifier (sub 3:15 male) that certainly makes registration easier.

If you need a person to send suggestions on fun things for a family of three with a young daughter to do in Chicago in the Fall, just holler at me next year. I for sure have a kiddo who would 100% be a tour guide around Maggie Daley park for G.

plus I'm probably going to accidentally enter the lottery for 2018 with @michigandergirl and then say oops if they pick me sooooooooo
 
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If you need a person to send suggestions on fun things for a family of three with a young daughter to do in Chicago in the Fall, just holler at me next year. I've for sure have a kiddo who would 100% be a tour guide around Maggie Daley park for G.

plus I'm probably going to accidentally enter the lottery for 2018 with @michigandergirl and then say oops if they pick me sooooooooo
fixed it for you :)
 
If you need a person to send suggestions on fun things for a family of three with a young daughter to do in Chicago in the Fall, just holler at me next year. I for sure have a kiddo who would 100% be a tour guide around Maggie Daley park for G.

That'd be fun!

fixed it for you :)

:D

Shhhhh...we have to be quiet so we don't wake up the part of my brain that talks me out of things.

Let's go back to talking Dopeybadger into things!!!

:P
 
I'd agree that 5-10 pounds would effect performance. The thing is though I'd venture to guess I was around 160-163 for the spring Daniels training so if I had still had the speed to do a 19:30 5k, then it certainly should have been there for the marathon at that weight. I think it was a matter of learning that while 5-10 pounds could effect performance for a marathon, it's not the time to think about that when you're in the taper and trying to keep the energy stores up.
I'm rather type A if you haven't noticed by now.. so I weigh my self daily pre and post run. I try to finish any weight loss at least 2 weeks prior to a race. I know that I'll gain weight as soon as I carb load, so I consider that with my planning. Also if your training while carrying water, you should feel ok on with the extra carb load weight early on race day. I obviously don't want to get as skinny as I can for vanity sake, but weighing less is a big factor in VO2Max right?
 
I try to finish any weight loss at least 2 weeks prior to a race. I know that I'll gain weight as soon as I carb load, so I consider that with my planning.

And that's where a potential fault was in my previous cycle. I noticed the weight gain a little late in the game and tried to pivot potentially unsuccessfully. Lesson learned.

Also if your training while carrying water, you should feel ok on with the extra carb load weight early on race day.

I didn't really carry any water this year in training. I just hit the "aid" station and moved on. But the 10oz of water isn't really close to the 3 pounds of weight gain from carb loading. But I get your point.

I obviously don't want to get as skinny as I can for vanity sake, but weighing less is a big factor in VO2Max right?

It is certainly part of the equation, but a balancing act between enough and too much.
 
I really like the name Bloop...could that be a fun name for a dessert? :scratchin
But, 26 of the same loop...no thanks!


Seeing as "run a race in Chicago," made it onto my goal list, I just looked up when the lottery opens, just to see...

Hmm... seems as if we might have another Fall 2018 DIS meet brewing at the moment. Wouldn't you say @roxymama @michigandergirl @sourire @CheapRunnerMike and for good measure let's throw our local resident @opusone into the mix as well... Not exclusionary of course as all are welcome to join this slowly growing thinking possibly community... maybe @GollyGadget too...
 
What does the #math say when considering the chances of getting into the race when one enters the lottery? I am sure I could google this, but I would bet that several of you already know!
 
What does the #math say when considering the chances of getting into the race when one enters the lottery? I am sure I could google this, but I would bet that several of you already know!

Haven't found the lottery numbers for the race happening this weekend. But an article about the two years prior says:
Among more than 54,800 entries, nearly 29,000 prospective runners are finding out today that they have won a spot in the Oct. 11 race. That gave entrants a 52 percent chance of winning a race bib compared with a 54 percent chance last year.
16,200 race bibs were awarded through one of several ways to guarantee entry. Last year's race included roughly 14,000 guaranteed runners.
More than 6,700 runners ensured their spot this year by running for a charity, while about 2,800 got a bib because they had run the Chicago marathon five or more times in the past 10 years.
About 3,800 runners got in through time qualification (men who had run a marathon in under 3 hours and 15 minutes and women in under 3 hours and 45 minutes
 
plus I'm probably going to accidentally enter the lottery for 2018 with @michigandergirl and then say oops if they pick me sooooooooo

YES!!! :D

Hmm... seems as if we might have another Fall 2018 DIS meet brewing at the moment. Wouldn't you say @roxymama @michigandergirl @sourire @CheapRunnerMike and for good measure let's throw our local resident @opusone into the mix as well... Not exclusionary of course as all are welcome to join this slowly growing thinking possibly community... maybe @GollyGadget too...

Woot! Party in Chi-town in 2018! :tiptoe:
 
26 1-mile loops??? Shoot me now!

Haven't found the lottery numbers for the race happening this weekend. But an article about the two years prior says:
Among more than 54,800 entries, nearly 29,000 prospective runners are finding out today that they have won a spot in the Oct. 11 race. That gave entrants a 52 percent chance of winning a race bib compared with a 54 percent chance last year.
16,200 race bibs were awarded through one of several ways to guarantee entry. Last year's race included roughly 14,000 guaranteed runners.
More than 6,700 runners ensured their spot this year by running for a charity, while about 2,800 got a bib because they had run the Chicago marathon five or more times in the past 10 years.
About 3,800 runners got in through time qualification (men who had run a marathon in under 3 hours and 15 minutes and women in under 3 hours and 45 minutes

Where are the decimal places for this? How am I expected to believe these numbers when they are clearly #fakestats?
 
What does the #math say when considering the chances of getting into the race when one enters the lottery? I am sure I could google this, but I would bet that several of you already know!
There isn’t much #math in this, but out of the several people that I know that entered the lottery for the race this year, I don’t know anyone who did not get in. So from where I’m sitting, it’s 100% likely that you get in. :)
 

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