Torn between economics and convenience

[bobbiwoz]

You have to be sure you book in the home resort time. I’ve been a member for a long time and I love the WL area. If I were starting out now, feeling the way I do, I would buy CCV. I would buy direct with the idea that I could use the points at Riviera.

Whatever you decide, best wishes!

 

[Carol_]

Hi! I have two grown offspring, so that separate bedding is really crucial to us, too, as we generally need a room that sleeps 5 (even though there are only 4 of us). How can a 1 bedroom be rated for 5 if it doesn't have separate sleeping surfaces for the kids? Can you explain? Thanks!

It is so frustrating to us that most of the 1 bedrooms only sleep 4! Our choices are cram into a studio that sleeps 5, book 2 studios, or splurge on a two bedroom! At this point we just lean toward 2 studios...

We create the WALL OF PILLOWS.

 

[dare2try]

Really buying direct is ultimately because you plan to book at Riviera and future builds & might be points cruiser. Can’t fault that. But buying direct just for blue card benefits you must look at how long it will take for all those savings to pay off with the thousands saved on resale. With as much SSR being grabbed back at ROFR lately, you won’t be waiting long.

Yeah, its also for the additional resorts, the AP is just part of the reason for us buying direct.

 

[sethschroeder]

There is no guarantee that the AP perk will be there for the next 50 years.

From all my research and no one has corrected me ever there has never been a time where a ticket offering was not available. Historically when there was no AP discount there was actually a 20% savings off the length of stay tickets which is still a good deal to get a 20% discount on tickets (might be better for some than AP).

Its very doubtful they don't have some sort of ticket benefit the next 50 years but there is always a chance they remove all benefits as well.

waitlist for SSR

You understand for SSR:
SSR Direct - $165 is $4.85 per point that you use
CCV Direct (300 point incentive) - $190 is $3.96 per point that you use
CCV Direct - $220 is $4.58 per point that you use

Your CCV points are actually "cheaper" every time you use a point because your contract is so much longer. SSR value will always be on the low end of resale and also expires long before CCV (2054 vs 2068 - 14 years) so CCV will retain value longer for whatever the resale market does in the future.

Think of where in life you will be in 2054 will you want to rebuy DVC with another upfront payment at that point? Or would paying a little extra now be a benefit later not to worry about it.

Oh and no one says you can't use your CCV points just like SSR and book other resorts. Its not a "terrible" deal or anything like that its just SSR is the cheapest resale so it gets talked about the most since most of these threads are on resale not direct.

 

[RoseGold]

I found this chart really helpful: https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/blog/best-economical-dvc-resort-to-purchase-spring-2020/

You can see that most of your cost per year in ownership is dues anyway. So, resale SSR is low risk in the sense that historically it holds value over a few years, and you'd just owe commisison to sell. You don't sound like a lifer, so resale is an obvious win.

But, DVC has many restrictions and isn't right for many people. The main one, convenience, isn't even in your OP. But, yea, it's much more convenient to book cash a few months out and be able to cancel. A lot of people found that out in the pandemic. Cost, stuck at Disney, I can go on with downsides.

We have no idea what your budget is, what kind of room you are trying to book, or when you travel, so not sure we can be more helpful with what you posted.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Not worth it!!

 

[RoseGold]

From all my research and no one has corrected me ever there has never been a time where a ticket offering was not available. Historically when there was no AP discount there was actually a 20% savings off the length of stay tickets which is still a good deal to get a 20% discount on tickets (might be better for some than AP).

You mean like now? For the last six months? I guess you kept your sweet merch discount...

 

[Deb & Bill]

My wife is exhausted from the conversation so I'm hoping some of you could help me (us). After years of my best friend suggesting DVC to me (resale) I finally decides I was in a good place in my life where I could buy in...Unfortunately that was just after they announced the new resort restrictions and direct pricing just scared us off.

When I saw the promotions that were available I convince my wife to give it another try and now we're torn between the economic choice of SSR or the convenience of CCV. Like many of you we created a very elaborate spreadsheet which has helped us to a certain degree but has also eventually added to our confusion.

Given that we have two young children is it worth paying the premium in order to get the 11-month booking window, or should we go with SSR and risk it since we would likely need the larger room anyway?

Make sure you can book at 11 months out (sometimes right at 8AM ET) or you can lose out on your villa. If you can't book until sometimes after seven months out, you don't want to buy DVC. It is getting harder to change your reservation at seven months out. With California resorts, Hawaii, Vero, HHI, many of those owners are also trying to book WDW at seven months out.

If you love the Wilderness Lodge, buy there. Over time the upfront savings of SSR will matter less than convenience and being able to stay where you love.

When we first joined DVC, we purchased at Boulder Ridge for the lower buy-in cost, doing a mix of direct and resale. We also preferred BRV because the studios sleep 5, meaning separate bedding for our two children. The 1BRs are also rated for occupancy of 5, but don’t presently have the extra bedding; we’re holding out hope that when they refurbish BRV they will add that third bedding (Murphy bed beneath the tv area or a sleeper chair).

We did pick up CCV under the current promotions, though, because we want to own at WL for the long term and BRV expires in 2042. The current incentive brought our cost down to $180/point, and we were able to get two fixed weeks in studios for weeks 47 & 48, as well as a small add-on at RIV at $155/point for F&W split-stay. That said, you can get CCV resale for $140-$150/point (and BRV Resale for $90-$100/point), so if the direct benefits don’t matter to you, you can save via resale.

The problem with BRV and BWV is that the door that connects the one bedroom to the studio is located in the living room. So that wall space is a lot shorter than BCV or SSR where the connecting door is closer to the entrance to the villa. Also not enough room for that twin sized sleeper chair in the living room, otherwise they would have added it back in 2015 when they did a lot of modification to BRV and BCV.

Hi! I have two grown offspring, so that separate bedding is really crucial to us, too, as we generally need a room that sleeps 5 (even though there are only 4 of us). How can a 1 bedroom be rated for 5 if it doesn't have separate sleeping surfaces for the kids? Can you explain? Thanks!

It is so frustrating to us that most of the 1 bedrooms only sleep 4! Our choices are cram into a studio that sleeps 5, book 2 studios, or splurge on a two bedroom! At this point we just lean toward 2 studios...

The original DVC villa slept four in a studio and four in a one bedroom. That was pretty much industry standard. But with Disney's greed to raise the price of DVC, they needed to make studios attractive to their buyers with not enough money to book the two bedroom villa. Adding that murphy bed to the existing resorts was really a mistake. And the issue with booking two studios, you have to have kids who are 18 or older in your group so that Mom and Dad can stay in one of the studios. You can't put kids in a studio without an adult (18 or older) on the guest register.

Disney allows you to book up to 5 people in a BRV 1 Bedroom, but while they’ll provide the linens, they don’t provide bedding, so you’d need to bring an air mattress or similar (though we’ve often used the couch cushions to make a bed). Because the occupancy limit is 5, we are holding out some hope that they may add the third bedding when they do the full refurb, which was originally scheduled for this year (but I’ve heard nothing since about it, even though our 2020 dues were supposed to pay for it).

Our boys are teenagers now and won’t share a bed, so that fifth spot is important to us. And while we all can spend a week together in a studio - after all, we survive Cruises in a single cabin! - we do prefer the extra space of 1 or 2 BRs.

DVC won't provide anything for the fifth guest or bedding for your bed on the floor.

1-Bedroom Villa

View Floor Plans- Modal
Launch Virtual Tour- Modal
Views of Pool, Woodlands, Courtyard, or Disney's Wilderness Lodge Resort Hotel
1 king-size bed, 1 queen-size sleeper sofa
5th guest can be accommodated, but please note that no additional bedding, linens or towels will be provided
Sleeps Up to 4

 

[sethschroeder]

You mean like now? For the last six months? I guess you kept your sweet merch discount...

Except its not actually gone Disney in general is not selling APs. They are allowing AP holders to renew they also have been putting notes on accounts about applying ticket credit to future AP purchases when they come back.

So no its nothing like now as AP purchasing has not been removed as a DVC perk, its still in the disclosure documents, and its also listed in all the marketing materials.

 

[Ruttangel]

That, and the ability to use the points at Riviera, the new Disneyland Tower, Reflections (if it comes back), and any new future resorts. They might not matter to you, but they are a Direct benefit worth considering.

Yes, but you could rent out your points and rent Into Rivieria.
It’s more of a hassle but we can all stay at RIV one way or another

 

[DVCanonymouse]

The original DVC villa slept four in a studio and four in a one bedroom. That was pretty much industry standard. But with Disney's greed to raise the price of DVC, they needed to make studios attractive to their buyers with not enough money to book the two bedroom villa. Adding that murphy bed to the existing resorts was really a mistake. And the issue with booking two studios, you have to have kids who are 18 or older in your group so that Mom and Dad can stay in one of the studios. You can't put kids in a studio without an adult (18 or older) on the guest register.

DVC won't provide anything for the fifth guest or bedding for your bed on the floor.

My kids are in their 20's so the 2 studio issue isn't a problem for us, but it must be for many families. It seems to me that 1 bedrooms should sleep more people than studios, yet at many DVC resorts, the opposite is true. So "upgrading" from a studio to a 1BR doesn't solve the sleep surface issue...very frustrating!

 

[Lorana]

The problem with BRV and BWV is that the door that connects the one bedroom to the studio is located in the living room. So that wall space is a lot shorter than BCV or SSR where the connecting door is closer to the entrance to the villa. Also not enough room for that twin sized sleeper chair in the living room, otherwise they would have added it back in 2015 when they did a lot of modification to BRV and BCV.

The original DVC villa slept four in a studio and four in a one bedroom. That was pretty much industry standard. But with Disney's greed to raise the price of DVC, they needed to make studios attractive to their buyers with not enough money to book the two bedroom villa. Adding that murphy bed to the existing resorts was really a mistake. And the issue with booking two studios, you have to have kids who are 18 or older in your group so that Mom and Dad can stay in one of the studios. You can't put kids in a studio without an adult (18 or older) on the guest register.

DVC won't provide anything for the fifth guest or bedding for your bed on the floor.

Disney has always given me linens when I've called housekeeping for it in the past; they've just never provided bedding (except in Aulani, where they did give us an air mattress in the studio!).

BRV 1 BRs do have that extra chair in the living room area; I'd love it if during the refurb they replace that with the sleeper chairs, if by chance there isn't enough space for the pull-down murphy beds.

Though one nice thing (at present, at least, as I have to imagine some day they will widen the gap) about BRV and CCV are that the 2BRs aren't a ton more than the 1BRs (usually only 8 to 11 points more in the times we usually travel, depending on weekday/weekend and season), so we can do 5 nights in 2BRs instead of 7 in 1BRs without needing to borrow and get the extra space.

 

[DVCanonymouse]

Disney has always given me linens when I've called housekeeping for it in the past; they've just never provided bedding (except in Aulani, where they did give us an air mattress in the studio!).

BRV 1 BRs do have that extra chair in the living room area; I'd love it if during the refurb they replace that with the sleeper chairs, if by chance there isn't enough space for the pull-down murphy beds.

Though one nice thing (at present, at least, as I have to imagine some day they will widen the gap) about BRV and CCV are that the 2BRs aren't a ton more than the 1BRs (usually only 8 to 11 points more in the times we usually travel, depending on weekday/weekend and season), so we can do 5 nights in 2BRs instead of 7 in 1BRs without needing to borrow and get the extra space.

Thank you for brining that up about the points for the 2BRs. It never really occurred to me to look closely at those across resorts.

 

[Sandisw]

Disney has always given me linens when I've called housekeeping for it in the past; they've just never provided bedding (except in Aulani, where they did give us an air mattress in the studio!).

BRV 1 BRs do have that extra chair in the living room area; I'd love it if during the refurb they replace that with the sleeper chairs, if by chance there isn't enough space for the pull-down murphy beds.

Though one nice thing (at present, at least, as I have to imagine some day they will widen the gap) about BRV and CCV are that the 2BRs aren't a ton more than the 1BRs (usually only 8 to 11 points more in the times we usually travel, depending on weekday/weekend and season), so we can do 5 nights in 2BRs instead of 7 in 1BRs without needing to borrow and get the extra space.

The sleeper chair used at BLT and AKV won’t fit...at least that is what they said was the reason why they never went in to BWV, BCV, and BRV when they added them to OKW.

But, maybe in some way the remodel at BRV will allow the sleep 5!

 

[Lorana]

Thank you for brining that up about the points for the 2BRs. It never really occurred to me to look closely at those across resorts.

You're welcome!

I'll admit I used to just look at the gap between studio and 1BRs, and most of the time I'd choke, because most of the time the 1BRs are *more than double* what the Studio is per night in point cost. Part of the reason we bought DVC was to stay in 1BRs more often, as we love the kitchen, separate room for us, and the extra space (and I love having a whirlpool tub to soak in at end of day), but paying out the point cost for 1BRs *hurts*. Then we booked our first 2BR as a splurge, and the total cost made me go "wait a minute..." and then I really started to look at the point difference.

Let's just look at the heart of Fall Frenzy, which is October to late-November:
BRV: 32/37 1BR vs 41/48 2BR (9/11 point difference per night)
CCV: 32/36 1BR vs 41/47 2BR (9/11 point difference per night)
AKL Sav: 33/35 1BR vs 43/50 2BR (10/15 point difference per night). Std has better spread, of 27/29 vs 34/39 (7/10 difference)
RIV Std: 34/45 1BR vs 47/55 2BR (13/10 point difference per night; interesting the greater spread is on the weeknights)
BLT LV: 35/42 1BR vs 46/54 2BR (11/12 point difference per night)
BCV: 32/36 1BR vs 41/48 2BR (9/12 point difference per night)
BWV Std: 24/30 1BR vs 32/41 2BR (8/11 point difference per night)
GFV Std: 39/47 1BR vs 54/62 2BR (15 point difference per night)
OKW: 26/29 1BR vs 35/39 2BR (9/10 point difference per night)
SSR Std: 27/32 1BR vs 34/39 2BR (7 point difference per night)

Note that December 1-23 (and Jan1-31 and Sep20-30) has an event better gap, just looking at BRV & CCV:
BRV: 30/34 1BR vs 38/44 2BR (8/10 point difference per night)
CCV: 30/34 1BR vs 38/44 2BR (8/10 point difference per night)

So in the "prime" fall period, 234pts gets 7 nights in a 1BR at BRV, but it's only 212pts for 5 nights in a 2BR (which is 22 points less. Or spend 19 more points and get 6 nights in a 2BR).

When we started looking at it that way, spending the points for larger accommodations felt a lot more palatable! Especially when you consider that 2 Studios for 7 nights at BRV during then is 228 points. And while 2 studios for 5 nights is only 162 points -- 60 points less than a 2BR -- the studios in BRV or CCV aren't connecting, and you also won't get the full kitchen/living room, washer/dryer, whirlpool tub with the Studios. The only resort with connecting Studios is Poly, and it'll cost 196 for Standard View for 5 nights, or 236 for Lake View for 5 nights.

 

[Where'sPiglet?]

You're welcome!

I'll admit I used to just look at the gap between studio and 1BRs, and most of the time I'd choke, because most of the time the 1BRs are *more than double* what the Studio is per night in point cost. Part of the reason we bought DVC was to stay in 1BRs more often, as we love the kitchen, separate room for us, and the extra space (and I love having a whirlpool tub to soak in at end of day), but paying out the point cost for 1BRs *hurts*. Then we booked our first 2BR as a splurge, and the total cost made me go "wait a minute..." and then I really started to look at the point difference.

So I went and looked at some points charts too. It IS crazy!

It goes roughly:
Studio -> 1 Bedroom = DOUBLE
1 Bed -> 2 Bedroom = +10
2 Bed -> 3 Bedroom = DOUBLE to near TRIPLE per night
Poly Studio -> next size up at same resort = FIVE to SEVEN TIMES more

 

[Lorana]

So I went and looked at some points charts too. It IS crazy!

It goes roughly:
Studio -> 1 Bedroom = DOUBLE
1 Bed -> 2 Bedroom = +10
2 Bed -> 3 Bedroom = DOUBLE to near TRIPLE per night
Poly Studio -> next size up at same resort = FIVE to SEVEN TIMES more

Yeah, that GV jump is also crazy (and we won’t get into the Bungalows and Cabins...).

We’re planning to take dear friends to Disney in 2023 - yes, planning way ahead, but this is to take our godson on his first trip right before he turns 3 - and we were thinking of a CCV Grand Villa to share a common space, but we’re looking at 1084 points (based on 2021 charts) for that! We could get a 2BR + Studio for 574. 2BR + 1BR for 732. 2 2BRs for 828! It’s crazy.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Disney has always given me linens when I've called housekeeping for it in the past; they've just never provided bedding (except in Aulani, where they did give us an air mattress in the studio!).

BRV 1 BRs do have that extra chair in the living room area; I'd love it if during the refurb they replace that with the sleeper chairs, if by chance there isn't enough space for the pull-down murphy beds.

Though one nice thing (at present, at least, as I have to imagine some day they will widen the gap) about BRV and CCV are that the 2BRs aren't a ton more than the 1BRs (usually only 8 to 11 points more in the times we usually travel, depending on weekday/weekend and season), so we can do 5 nights in 2BRs instead of 7 in 1BRs without needing to borrow and get the extra space.

That chair isn't a sleeper chair and it is in the space where the door connects to the studio. You can't put that big sleeper chair in that space. Plus with the door in that location, they have already downsized the size of the television cabinet to allow for the small counter alongside the back of the sink wall in the kitchen and the connecting door. Now they could remove the sleeper sofa and put in that huge murphy bed cabinet on the wall next to the master bedroom.

 

[sethschroeder]

Yeah, that GV jump is also crazy

What I wish DVC would do is actually have all rooms interconnected. So that you could in theory book a "4BR Lock Off" which encompasses 2x studios + 2x 1BR or you could book a "1BR Lock Off" which encompasses 2x studios + 1x 1BR.

Yes layout might be slightly more difficult but it could be done and software can be built to control the booking. They could even do a Poly style hybrid resort (maybe at CBR west next to RIV station) where you have 3 studios then 1 br repeated on the floor allowing for larger connected rooms with a single kitchen in the 1BR.

Oh well never will happen but fun to think about.

 

[Deb & Bill]

What I wish DVC would do is actually have all rooms interconnected. So that you could in theory book a "4BR Lock Off" which encompasses 2x studios + 2x 1BR or you could book a "1BR Lock Off" which encompasses 2x studios + 1x 1BR.

Yes layout might be slightly more difficult but it could be done and software can be built to control the booking. They could even do a Poly style hybrid resort (maybe at CBR west next to RIV station) where you have 3 studios then 1 br repeated on the floor allowing for larger connected rooms with a single kitchen in the 1BR.

Oh well never will happen but fun to think about.

You'd have to traipse through someone's bedroom to get through to the living room.