Breonna Taylor Grand Jury report

[rigs32]

And a search warrant is not something police just do on their own. The police gather information, take that information to a prosecutor who reviews it for sufficiency and drafts the affidavit. The affidavit is then presented to a judge who decides whether or not to issue a court order directing the police to conduct the search.

That's not always the case. In my jurisdiction, the police draft the warrant and affidavit on their own. A prosecutor only gets involved prior to asking a judge to sign if the warrant is part of an ongoing investigation where there is already a prosecutor assigned (wire taps, homicide).

 

[SaintsManiac]

I feel terrible for Taylor's family and for the officers who were placed in this position. But the system that allowed this to happen is the cause of every event from the shooting through however this ends. At some point you have to stand up or this broken justice system will never be fixed. And for those opposed to "riots", consider that our nation was formed by rioters who were willing to rise up against the British, burning as they went, for a whole lot less than blacks have endured in America through the centuries of abuse.

It is horrible, but our country needs to go through this, learn from it, improve and move forward.

Riots get the media attention, but they are not a majority of what's going on out there. However, I agree with your post and think it's very well said.

Regardless, society will reap what they sow. Slavery, Reconstruction, Jim Crow, police brutality = centuries of hate that will erupt. In fact it is erupting NOW.

Until we are willing to acknowledge that and work together to heal and move forward this will continue to happen.

When a black person is killed by police I always ask myself, "would this have happened if the person was white?" I think it's important to always ask that question. Only then can we understand what is really happening here.

FTR, I am not anti police. I value their role in society. I just wish that everyone valued black lives just as much.

 

[BrianL]

I would never willingly participate in a riot, but I have marched in various protests in my life. The process is important. And if some small percentage end in riots then who is at fault? Who is responsible for them being there in the first place?

Much like the officers in this case, rioters feel compelled to act. The officers were fired upon, so they defended themselves. The rioters have endured centuries of abuse, and are now looking to defend themselves. The officers are allowed to actually kill an innocent woman and not face charges because we understand how they were placed in such a terrible position. Rioters feel just as compelled to take action, but no one even wants to think about how they got there in the first place.

Blame the broken system that produces riots, not the individuals who feel compelled to rise up against that system.

Disclaimer - there are also bad actors involved who are doing things for selfish reasons. I do not excuse their behavior.

Well, I can't go so far as to condone violent actions, etc. in these cases. I also don't think that they help in the cause at all - all they do is turn people against you and therefore your message is lost. It's a balancing act. I do understand that people can be angry, but rising up also means being better than the base impulse to riot. You are absolutely right though that the system needs to be held accountable as well.

 

[rigs32]

I have been on both sides of the no-knock situation on numerous occasions, and I can tell you that no-knock warrants are an important safety enhancement for everyone involved. They are not some sinister monster.

All narcotics warrants here are issued as no-knock because if they weren't, all evidence would disappear before officers entered the location. I know that the officers in my jurisdiction start yelling "police search warrant" just before they bang the door and continue to yell it until they clear the location and secure all occupants.

 

[JimMIA]

I agree. The system needs to be changed now - not after the next one.

It’s the system that allows this! Until we can understand that the system needs overhauled these situations will happen over and over.

Okay, I'll ask both of you two questions.

1. Specifically, what do you think needs to be changed?
2. HOW, specifically, would you change things? In other words, what would the new system look like?

 

[SaintsManiac]

Well, I can't quite go so far as to condone violent actions, etc. in these cases. I also don't think that they help int eh cause at all - all they do is turn people against you and therefore your message is lost. It's a balancing act. I do understand that people can be angry, but rising up also means being better than the base impulse to riot. You are absolutely right though that the system needs to be held accountable as well.

There's a great video out there of a woman explaining the rioting and looting. It's emotional and raw and I can't post it here because of language, politics, etc. It opened my eyes and allowed me to see it from another side.

I am NOT saying it's right! I am NOT condoning it. I just think it was an interesting perspective.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Well, I can't go so far as to condone violent actions, etc. in these cases. I also don't think that they help int eh cause at all - all they do is turn people against you and therefore your message is lost. It's a balancing act. I do understand that people can be angry, but rising up also means being better than the base impulse to riot. You are absolutely right though that the system needs to be held accountable as well.

Thanks - not trying to change your mind as you have a valid opinion. Just trying to explain my point of view.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I think a lot of it is psychological. Cops are not afraid of white people the way they are “afraid” of minorities. IMO they are way more on edge with minorities which causes more deaths. The stereotypes float in their head which makes them act irrationally. And some do just hate people of color but that’s a very small percentage.

 

[BrianL]

Okay, I'll ask both of you two questions.

1. Specifically, what do you think needs to be changed?
2. HOW, specifically, would you change things? In other words, what would the new system look like?

Well, I don't have all the answers, but I do know that the officers executing that warrant as they did over something as minor as thinking this guy might be getting drugs delivered at his ex's apartment should be wholly improper. They should have had more surveilance and intel at the very least and should have been clearly identifiable as police officers as well (I'm thinking those vests that asy POLICE in white letters across the front). It just doesn't sit well with me the way things went down and clearly I'm not alone.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Okay, I'll ask both of you two questions.

1. Specifically, what do you think needs to be changed?
2. HOW, specifically, would you change things? In other words, what would the new system look like?

Here is a paper that is long but worth the read if you have time: Reducing Racial Disparity in the Criminal Justice System: A Manual for Practitioners and Policymakers

 

[JimMIA]

There's a great video out there of a woman explaining the rioting and looting. It's emotional and raw and I can't post it here because of language, politics, etc. It opened my eyes and allowed me to see it from another side.

I am NOT saying it's right! I am NOT condoning it. I just think it was an interesting perspective.

Riots hurt the overall cause.

What will people remember about the Breonna Taylor case?

• A woman was killed when her boyfriend shot a police sergeant serving a search warrant on her apartment.
• A Grand Jury found the shooting justified because of the boyfriend's shooting of the officer.
• Riots ensued, and two police officers were shot by rioters.

I don't think that puts "the movement" in a good light.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Riots hurt the overall cause.

What will people remember about the Breonna Taylor case?

• A woman was killed when her boyfriend shot a police sergeant serving a search warrant on her apartment.
• A Grand Jury found the shooting justified because of the boyfriend's shooting of the officer.
• Riots ensued, and two police officers were shot by rioters.

I don't think that puts "the movement" in a good light.

Depends on what people you ask. That is certainly not what me and mine will remember.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

It was that direct, personal involvement (including taking packages of drugs to her apartment) which provided the legal basis for the search warrant.

People who have looked into this have found no evidence to support it.

https://www.wdrb.com/in-depth/louis...cle_f25bbc06-96e4-11ea-9371-97b341bd2866.html

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (WDRB) – A U.S. postal inspector in Louisville said Metro police did not use his office to verify that a drug suspect was receiving packages at Breonna Taylor's apartment, one of the factors listed in officers' request for a "no-knock" warrant for her home.

But Tony Gooden said a different law enforcement agency asked his office in January to investigate whether Taylor's home was receiving any potentially suspicious mail. After looking into the request, he said, the local office concluded that it wasn't.

"There's no packages of interest going there," he said in an interview after WDRB News contacted him Friday.

Riots hurt the overall cause.

What will people remember about the Breonna Taylor case?

• A woman was killed when her boyfriend shot a police sergeant serving a search warrant on her apartment.
• A Grand Jury found the shooting justified because of the boyfriend's shooting of the officer.
• Riots ensued, and two police officers were shot by rioters.

I don't think that puts "the movement" in a good light.

Without the riots, I don't think any of us would have heard of Breonna Taylor. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Personally, my frustration with all of these shootings is the difference in treatment given to police. Even in the Breonna Taylor case, her boyfriend was arrested and charged for shooting at the officers while the officers got a lengthy investigation. We all need to be equal under the law.

 

[J'aime Paris]

I would never willingly participate in a riot, but I have marched in various protests in my life. The process is important. And if some small percentage end in riots then who is at fault? Who is responsible for them being there in the first place?

Much like the officers in this case, rioters feel compelled to act. The officers were fired upon, so they defended themselves. The rioters have endured centuries of abuse, and are now looking to defend themselves. The officers are allowed to actually kill an innocent woman and not face charges because we understand how they were placed in such a terrible position. Rioters feel just as compelled to take action, but no one even wants to think about how they got there in the first place.

Blame the broken system that produces riots, not the individuals who feel compelled to rise up against that system.

Disclaimer - there are also bad actors involved who are doing things for selfish reasons. I do not excuse their behavior.

Disagree! Two wrongs don't make a right...
Burning, looting, ransacking businesses....the rioters should be made to pay restitution to the honest people just trying to make a living

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Disagree! Two wrongs don't make a right...

There are not two wrongs here. There are countless millions of wrongs. But I respect your opinion.

 

[littlejimmy]

I think a lot of it is psychological. Cops are not afraid of white people the way they are “afraid” of minorities. IMO they are way more on edge with minorities which causes more deaths. The stereotypes float in their head which makes them act irrationally. And some do just hate people of color but that’s a very small percentage.

ok, I will bite. why are cops more afraid of minorities? and which stereotypes are floating around in their heads? in my mind, this is the discussion we need to have and be able to use facts and statistics when we discuss these answers. herre is a stat for you, did you know that in 2017, 940 men were killed by police, vs 45 women. 2018, 942 v 53. 2019, 961 vs 43. 2020 637 vs 24. so it seems that men are greatly killed more by police. why is that? and if you say because men commit more crimes/violent crimes, then that opens up that can of worms. and pointing out facts does not make a person racist.

 

[J'aime Paris]

There are not two wrongs here. There are countless millions of wrongs. But I respect your opinion.

I certainly agree that there are countless wrongs....sadly...
But I will only agree with peaceful protesting. Violence only casts a negative shadow on the message that needs to be heard!

 

[BuckeyeBama]

ok, I will bite. why are cops more afraid of minorities? and which stereotypes are floating around in their heads? in my mind, this is the discussion we need to have and be able to use facts and statistics when we discuss these answers. herre is a stat for you, did you know that in 2017, 940 men were killed by police, vs 45 women. 2018, 942 v 53. 2019, 961 vs 43. 2020 637 vs 24. so it seems that men are greatly killed more by police. why is that? and if you say because men commit more crimes/violent crimes, then that opens up that can of worms. and pointing out facts does not make a person racist.

First prove to me that the difference in behavior is driven by fear rather than race.

 

[kelpricer]

Okay, I'll ask both of you two questions.

1. Specifically, what do you think needs to be changed?
2. HOW, specifically, would you change things? In other words, what would the new system look like?

Specifics are hard. Most of these problems stem from race issues and because of it, the lack of trust in the police. One small first step may be issuing every officer that carries a gun a body camera that has to be on. That may be a first step in trusting what is happening. We need political leaders to start to listen and work with all sides of this issue. Race issues in this country have a lot of gray area which is why listing specifics is almost impossible. Obviously in this case there is a lot of controversy in the no knock warrant and how it should have been handled. But the breakdown of the system is bigger than just this case.

 

[JimMIA]

Well, I don't have all the answers

But you have to have answers! That's a big part of the problem with the whole BLM movement -- there is no single, coherent objective. You must know what you want, or you're never going to get it.

but I do know that the officers executing that warrant as they did over something as minor as thinking this guy might be getting drugs delivered at his ex's apartment should be wholly improper. They should have had more surveilance and intel at the very least

All I can tell you is that the officers were serving a search warrant issued by a judge. If the warrant was deficient, that's on the judge -- not on the officers serving the warrant.

and should have been clearly identifiable as police officers as well (I'm thinking those vests that asy POLICE in white letters across the front). It just doesn't sit well with me the way things went down and clearly I'm not alone.

I agree, but just saying "Change it!" doesn't help.

I'm not saying right or wrong here, but I'll explain how we do search warrants in my old department. Keep in mind that these procedures are not the product of law enforcement genius. They are the result of learning from screw-ups!

Here are the major differences between our procedures and what LMPD did:

• In every warrant, someone from the actual investigative team is present during the service of the warrant. They know the players, and in many cases even know the floorplans of the place being searched. They are absolutely critical to successful warrant service. (The officers who served the warrant on Breonna Taylor were extra manpower with no connection to the investigation, brought in to serve the warrant.)
• In every search warrant service, a Lieutenant from a unit completely separate from the investigative unit getting the warrant is present and ensures the legal sufficiency of the warrant, and that the warrant is being served at the correct address. So, if a narcotics warrant is being served, the Lt might be from a uniform district miles away with no connection to the investigators. The warrant is literally read aloud to the Lieutenant, and the Lt does a drive-by of the place being searched before the warrant is served.
• In every warrant, there is a regular uniform presence -- in normal duty uniform -- and marked police units are prominently used.
• ALL no-knock warrants are served by a SWAT team -- not because of their armament, but because of their training, experience, discipline, and restraint.