My MDE is overloaded; IT wants to create 2nd account and transfer only current items.

[Princess_Lisa]

Unless every individual MDE account has its own separate database (something unimaginable), this cannot be a database corruption issue. If it were, every entry in the database would be impacted, not just the individuals with more field entries. They have another problem associated with some sort of systems restriction, but this does not sound like a database corruption issue at all.

If they were to completely delete the old account you could reuse the existing email address. Are they asking for a separate email account so they can have the two open at once while they move stuff over? If so, when they are done, are they deleting the old account so you can reuse that email address in the future should this problem recur?

Maybe each user has an entry in a table with columns for pointers to entries in the MB, ADR, FP, Ticket, etc...tables. But, they sized it to only accept a specific number of pointers in each column and when there's too many, your MDE stops working correctly.

Something like this...but more complete and better designed obviously.

 

[Conno]

I asked that. They said they can't delete anything.

As someone who works with this kind of data, albeit in another industry, they won't delete it - because that provides them client intelligence and metrics. They can - but won't. It's far too valuable.

The technical reason there is a limit is database efficiency and synchronisation; the more redundant data on your account - the more they have to sift through each time you tap into a park, a fast pass, or ride a ride. It can bog the system down.

This data is technically just a couple of ID numbers in a relational database linked to the ID of your account - it takes up very little space - but sorting through millions of records in the database each time you use your magic band to activate something uses computer processing power (in terms of CPU/Network resources); the more data - the more power.

This is not an issue of 'memory is cheap, buy more memory'; the technical implication without being confusing is: it's all about database performance.

Just my 2c from working in a similar environment.

 

[Amanda999]

I'd pay the upsell for 'concierge' (expert) IT assistance on this, to be sure it was done correctly. Or a larger memory 'deluxe' MDE account.

 

[Conno]

I'd pay the upsell for 'concierge' (expert) IT assistance on this, to be sure it was done correctly. Or a larger memory 'deluxe' MDE account.

This isn't the type of problem you can throw money at - if anything it's a design flaw in the foundation of the system; and it's likely they never expected people to hit this limit. Keep in mind - with them not deleting old data; and creating a new account - that in no way saves memory; because the old stuff is still there. In anything, creating a new account uses up more memory (or hard drive space in reality).

I do agree that their current solution is not a good one, and provides very bad customer experience. There are technical ways they can do this behind the scenes that makes the new account transparent to the customer (they would know no different, or that a new account is being used) - but without knowing the details of how the system was developed - it's hard to say or suggest how they might do that.

 

[quandrea]

L

I'm one that had to have that done. It was the only way to fix it. I have a feeling more and more frequent travelers are going to have this issue.

Honestly, it is great. Fixed everything right up. I can even Change Reservations online again. No more issues with MDE anywhere. Even my old Ghost Tickets are gone. It was/is a PITA to have to have a new email account but I simply forwarded that email to my one I use all the time so on that end, it's all seamless. I only have to remember the new one when I call in to them on the phone. And since I used my full name for the email account, it's rather easy to remember it

I think this might be what is doing with my account. Having a really hard time with dining reservations. I however, don’t think it’s great that I’ll need a new email to access a new account. I have one email and have zero interest in creating a new one.

 

[Lilsia]

This is stupid, this is what they get when they outsource this type of work to a foreign country. My hubby is a programmer and he said this is ridiculous and is an easy fix. Says they have to build in an archive file for the old data. He says it is not even a big deal and he does that kind of stuff all the time at his job.

 

[SgtTibbs]

Wonder what Disney's plan is: I know memory is relatively cheap, but no way in 40 years - if they never purge any data - will they be able to manage it all. (I'm no techie, obviously, but KWIM?) Maybe frequent visitors are so few, it's not a problem (to Disney).

MDE data is all text.
Let's say a "visit" creates the equivalent of a full page of text (80 characters per-line, 40 lines)
That's 3.2kb of data that needs to be stored per visit.
A modern Hard Drive can hold can hold 8 Terabytes.
8 Terabytes is 8,000,000,000 Kilobytes.
On drive you can store:
2,500,000,000 Visits. That's two and a half billion visits.
On one drive I can pickup at Amazon for under $300.

Space is not the issue here.


And for any techies, yes I'm over simplifying, you would factor in multiple drives in a RAID array for redundancy but still it makes the point. You can store a boat ton of visit on even a modest storage system.

 

[Conno]

My hubby is a programmer and he said this is ridiculous and is an easy fix. Says they have to build in an archive file for the old data. He says it is not even a big deal and he does that kind of stuff all the time at his job.

No programmer would say that. That's what their non-programming managers say. Maybe that's just my experience.

He doesn't know how they use this data; whether for metrics or analytics and offloading it to cold storage (archiving) removes its value. It's easy to say 'its easy to fix' when you haven't fully contemplated the problem and potential use-case scenarios.

 

[Fangorn]

... and they make me feel like its all my fault !!!!

...Does anyone think they will fix the problem soon by being able to really delete unnecessary date

This is going to get a bit technical (and probably long) but bear with me, or ignore me and move on.

So I am a Computer Scientist. My early work was in database systems - which, 40 years ago when I started in this business, was a very new specialty. Trends and companies have come and gone, but the fact remains there are really only so many ways (like 3) that large databases can be implemented.
While I don't have any direct knowledge of how Disney has chosen to architect the MyMagic+ initiative, I have spoken with a number of Disney IT folks (well former Disney IT folks, since they had all been outsourced) and nearly went to work for one of Disney's original outsourcing partners to work on the Disney account. That, 40+ years of systems experience and my own experiences with Disney's systems, gives me at least a modicum of insight into some of the issues here.

Mostly, the issues appear to be of Disney's own making, or rather of their inaction (think "penny pinching"). The core of the specific issue reported here is the fact that Disney does not have one cohesive system, but rather a multitude of disparate systems that were created at various times for various purposes, using a number of different technologies and tools. If you've ever had the opportunity (I have) to peek around the front desk counter and look at the reservation system the CM is using to check you in at your hotel, you'll immediately have a flashback to the late 1970s/early 1980s. Nothing at all state of the art about those systems. I can only imagine what the backend database engine is.

Overall Systems Approach
Each of Disney's systems, hotel reservations, ADRs, FP ticketing, etc, are pretty obviously individual systems and have little similarity to one another. Likely they each use a different underlying technology (whatever was popular at the time it was built). This makes it very difficult to integrate them into one cohesive unit - which is exactly what Disney tried to do with MyMagic+. But instead of integrating them at the foundational level ($$$$$$$) they chose to try to mask the issues by putting up a nice, modern user interface for the consumer to see ($) and build bridges and interfaces between the various systems behind the scenes. In all of computing history, this strategy had never actually worked for longer than about 2-3 years before things start to fall apart. I've seen it tried and fail in some of the largest and most tech savvy companies (Disney doesn't fit in that later category). It always ends up costing far more in the long run - both in dollars and in customer satisfaction.

Database Issues
The problem here with corruption of data and the inability to just "delete old data", is one of the by-products of using "glueware" (software designed to transfer data back and forth between two disparate systems without changing either of them). The database concept of "referential integrity" comes into play big-time under these circumstances. For any database to be useful, the data stored must be as correct and current as possible. It just doesn't work well if some necessary piece of information suddenly goes missing.

Database management systems generally work by storing a data item only once and providing the necessary links (called pointers) to and from all the places that information is needed. Within a given database, it's pretty difficult for these pointers to become corrupted. The database management system is specifically designed to prevent that from happening. At this point, several decades of work has gone into the theory and application of database systems. Enterprise level data engines are very solid. But only within their own framework.

When a company decides to glue multiple systems (and their underlying databases) together, they quickly run into referential integrity problems. Pointers (links) to/from data in multiple databases using different database engines have to be maintained "by hand" - neither database engine can do the job alone. Which means, that if I have an MDE profile in db1, linked to a hotel reservation in db2, I can very easily screw things up if I delete the reservation, but don't remove the link to it from the MDE profile. It's that possibility of data corruption that leads companies that are using glueware to enforce referential integrity by absolutely forbidding data that is involved in these cross platform relationships from ever being deleted. It seems so simple, until the data volume become unwieldy and corruption starts to occur anyway.

The reservation system probably couldn't care less if a canceled reservation was deleted, other than from a historical/analytic perspective (how many reservations were canceled in 2017?) But if the reservation goes away and the MDE profile isn't updated properly, the whole system begins to spiral out of control and will eventually collapse into a pile of useless goo. Having more than two databases involved only increases the potential problems exponentially.

So there is technical issue at play here. But reality is Disney could solve the problem by either massively redoing ALL of the systems involved or by specifically creating a cleanup process and systems that would remove unnecessary data from MDE profiles. But it appears they've chosen, for the present at least, to opt for the simple (for them) option of making their guests suffer.

Because, it is, of course, all our fault.

Steve

 

[focusondisney]

Sheesh! Disney is pushing us frequent visitors away with both hands. Implementing unpopular fees, raising prices, decreasing on site benefits & then making us use an online system that will lock us out if we use it too much.

I also have only 1 email account. Have had it for more than 15 years & DH & I both use it for retail, bills etc. No problems with it ever. I have no intention of making a new email just for Disney. With 2 or 3 week long trips a year, (many of them split stays), 3 fastpasses a day each & anywhere from 10 - 14 ADRs a trip, it probably won't be long til I'm having issues too. Maybe I need to cut back on our trips so my account will last longer!

 

[otterpop]

I wonder what Mulder and Scully would say about all this...

...or Verizon, AT&T...
...or Apple, Microsoft..
...or my grocery store and gas station after I use my rewards card...

 

[vinotinto]

@Fangorn, that was such a great explanation. I'm always amazed at the knowledge in our Disboards community!

 

[quandrea]

Sheesh! Disney is pushing us frequent visitors away with both hands. Implementing unpopular fees, raising prices, decreasing on site benefits & then making us use an online system that will lock us out if we use it too much.

I also have only 1 email account. Have had it for more than 15 years & DH & I both use it for retail, bills etc. No problems with it ever. I have no intention of making a new email just for Disney. With 2 or 3 week long trips a year, (many of them split stays), 3 fastpasses a day each & anywhere from 10 - 14 ADRs a trip, it probably won't be long til I'm having issues too. Maybe I need to cut back on our trips so my account will last longer!

My opinion exactly. I have enough trouble keeping up with all the accounts and passwords I currently have. I will not be creating a new email account for Disney.

 

[Best Aunt]

I'd pay the upsell for 'concierge' (expert) IT assistance

Hush, they might hear you and that will be the next fee -- you pay extra to have your Disney IT issues expedited. Everybody else goes to the end of the list.

 

[AngiTN]

My opinion exactly. I have enough trouble keeping up with all the accounts and passwords I currently have. I will not be creating a new email account for Disney.

Everyone has their individual, proverbial, final straw. Some may be a new email account.
I was really annoyed when I had to do it and complained to them mightily when I did it
But, it was not enough to make me give up going and I thought, well, it would be a very silly reason if someone asked me, why did you suddenly stop going to Disney and I said, because they made me get a new email account. I'm sure someone would look at me like I had 2 heads. So I opened a new email account, which gmail makes super easy. Disney is the only one who has that email account (so if something ever happens with it, guess who I'll know sold or otherwise compromised it?). And gmail made it really easy to just forward all that mail right to my regular account. So, my daily email use has not changed one bit. And really, that's all that mattered to me in the end.
So despite my kicking and screaming fit about having to do it, I decided it was a silly final battle to take on. I'll live on to fight another day and my final straw is yet to come.

 

[Robo]

Oh, the many discussions we had on these boards way back when MDX/MB/MyMagic+/FP+ was announced and being "tested."

I.T. problems and guest confusion were predicted by so many, here, who have been trying to "explain" just the normal day-to-day of WDW before any of this "new way of vacationing" was
put in play.

It looks like the naysayers didn't even scratch the surface of the problems that
actually were lurking 'neath the murky waters of Disney I.T.

The day-after-day-after-day questions of nervous guests, "How do I put my tickets on a new MagicBand?" are simple compared to what may very well take down the efficacy of WDW's entire computer infrastructure.

Scary, kids!

 

[Airb330]

Oh, the many discussions we had on these boards way back when MDX/MB/MyMagic+/FP+ was announced and being "tested."

Our first trip with magicbands, it was our first DVC trip actually, in June 2013 was a disaster. The magic bands stopped working for our rooms every single day. The charging privileges *never* worked, not even once. However, since they were "testing" it at various locations, the CMs would insist us to "try" the magic band again, and again, and again. The worst was at TOTWL where they were basically told to use no cash or cards by their management. They scanned our bands at least 10x, called IT, etc. After 15-20 minutes, they finally let us use our chase card.

All in all, at least things did improve from that experience. The new point-of-sale scanners (like you see at Target, CVS etc) really blow away those 'rose' ones which were first generation. While I know I don't travel to WDW as often as AgntiTN (though our trips seem to overlap often!), I fear this will happen to us eventually too since we do travel usually 3 times a year.

 

[quandrea]

Everyone has their individual, proverbial, final straw. Some may be a new email account.
I was really annoyed when I had to do it and complained to them mightily when I did it
But, it was not enough to make me give up going and I thought, well, it would be a very silly reason if someone asked me, why did you suddenly stop going to Disney and I said, because they made me get a new email account. I'm sure someone would look at me like I had 2 heads. So I opened a new email account, which gmail makes super easy. Disney is the only one who has that email account (so if something ever happens with it, guess who I'll know sold or otherwise compromised it?). And gmail made it really easy to just forward all that mail right to my regular account. So, my daily email use has not changed one bit. And really, that's all that mattered to me in the end.
So despite my kicking and screaming fit about having to do it, I decided it was a silly final battle to take on. I'll live on to fight another day and my final straw is yet to come.

I hear you. My proverbial last straw probably is the email. We have two trips planned—April and August. My account is hobbling along right now, so hopefully, I’ll make it through. We just cancelled all travel to WDW in 2019 because our travel needs are changing. I’m crossing my fingers that they figure this out before I return sometime in 2020. If not, well, I’ll deal with that in 2020.

 

[Buzzsgramma]

OMG please say it isn't so....I have 13 or more people mostly family on my account i do all the planning...ugh..so many mb's,ressies and ADR's..I try to keep up with tech but it isn't easy.....

 

[MamaBear58]

This is so strange. I have 1 past trip, but lots of ADRs and FP+s. No record of any of it in MDE.