The Bachelor — Pilot Pete

[lisaviolet]

Last night's episode went pretty much how I expected

Yep.
And I thought he handled Madison's "This is how I need it to go but I am not telling you how to be" speech at dinner perfectly.

And don't forget that Pete's parents were positively giddy about the "4 times in a windmill" news at the Bachelorette season finale last year.

I did forget.

---------

But "Go get her" "Bring her home!" regardless. (EDIT: Being totally flippant here and having fun. Peter's parents seemed to enjoy Maddie at their ceremony. And wouldn't have an ounce of an issue to have her as their DIL.)

Oh Pete. Oh dear Pete.

 

[nkereina]

So, I can see why she may not be as bothered by the four times in a windmill as she would by his intimacy with VF and HA. He was intimate with them while courting her. During Hannah's season, she didn't know Peter and she even said she doesn't expect people to have made the same life choices as her, meaning she knows people will have sexual pasts. But I think she was struggling with trying to reconcile him proposing to her but having slept with 1-2 other women a week prior. I definitely get that and don't fault her for it. But she needs to stand her ground and come to terms with the fact that this may not be the right relationship for her. I said up-thread it will always be a bone of contention in their relationship if she's the chosen one in the end.

I tend to agree that its questionable why someone with her values would want to come on a show like this. Same can be said for Luke P. last season. I can only assume its to get their 15 minutes of fame and build that influencer "brand". Madi is very into missionary work, so perhaps being able to live the influencer lifestyle would give her a way to do more of that or create more exposure for the missions she works with. Who knows. I would think most people don't come on this show expecting to fully fall in love with the lead and make it to the end, so they all have ulterior motives. But I think people get caught up in the "Bachelor bubble" utopia and think they are in love, so perhaps Madi fell victim to that. Time will tell!

Of the remaining women, I don't really think any of them are great for Peter. I'd say Madi is the one most ready for marriage since she has a good sense of self and what she wants, but I don't think Peter is right for her.

 

[jennyq87]

So, I can see why she may not be as bothered by the four times in a windmill as she would by his intimacy with VF and HA. He was intimate with them while courting her. During Hannah's season, she didn't know Peter and she even said she doesn't expect people to have made the same life choices as her, meaning she knows people will have sexual pasts. But I think she was struggling with trying to reconcile him proposing to her but having slept with 1-2 other women a week prior.

Totally agree with this. I completely respect Madison and her decisions, and I think she has conveyed them eloquently and without shaming others. BUT, she needed to make these beliefs more clear to Peter (and much earlier on) if they were so important to her. I don't think he had the full context he needed in order to go into fantasy suite nights. Not saying that would have had an impact on his actions, but it might have.

But I don't agree with the "why did she go on the show" viewpoint. She doesn't seem to be holding anyone else to this same standard that she holds herself. She's simply saying, "I'm going to have a hard time believing you truly love me if you had sex with 1 or 2 other women 6 days prior to proposing to me." It's not that he had sex in the past, it's the proximity to the proposal. How can you honestly tell me that you want to spent the rest of your life with me when you slept with someone else not even a week ago? At least that's how I'm interpreting her words. It's not so much the sex, but the timeline. And I honestly don't think it's unreasonable to go on this show and think you can "win" without the lead banging other people. Nick only slept with Vanessa because he knew it was her. Colton ran after Cassie and ditched the other two. So it's not like it's unheard of for the winner to be obvious to the lead early on and they approach fantasy suites differently.

And by the time you get to the top 3, they all think they're the winner. So if I put myself in her shoes, I think she's saying, "I know it's going to be us in the end. So I think you need to know that I'll have a hard time accepting a proposal if you sleep with the other girls while already knowing it's me in the end." Because I do think there's a big difference if the top 3 are "tied" and you need to explore the sexual chemistry to sway your decision, but if he already knew it was Madison but slept with the others anyway because he could, I don't think that's cool.

Also. I can't deal with Hannah Ann. She's beautiful but I don't buy their chemistry for a second.

This women tell all is going to be a trainwreck!

 

[nkereina]

But I don't agree with the "why did she go on the show" viewpoint. She doesn't seem to be holding anyone else to this same standard that she holds herself. She's simply saying, "I'm going to have a hard time believing you truly love me if you had sex with 1 or 2 other women 6 days prior to proposing to me." It's not that he had sex in the past, it's the proximity to the proposal. How can you honestly tell me that you want to spent the rest of your life with me when you slept with someone else not even a week ago? At least that's how I'm interpreting her words. It's not so much the sex, but the timeline. And I honestly don't think it's unreasonable to go on this show and think you can "win" without the lead banging other people. Nick only slept with Vanessa because he knew it was her. Colton ran after Cassie and ditched the other two. So it's not like it's unheard of for the winner to be obvious to the lead early on and they approach fantasy suites differently.

And by the time you get to the top 3, they all think they're the winner. So if I put myself in her shoes, I think she's saying, "I know it's going to be us in the end. So I think you need to know that I'll have a hard time accepting a proposal if you sleep with the other girls while already knowing it's me in the end." Because I do think there's a big difference if the top 3 are "tied" and you need to explore the sexual chemistry to sway your decision, but if he already knew it was Madison but slept with the others anyway because he could, I don't think that's cool.

I was thinking about her motives for going on the show from a broader picture, like why she would even apply in the first place. Madi and her family have been vocal about her finding a spouse that leads the family in faith and upholds similar (evangelical) Christian values as her. There is nothing wrong that that, but the Bachelor isn't exactly known for casting those kinds of people. Its a reality TV show broadcast in mainstream media. Heck, there's an entire episode dedicated (indirectly) to premarital sex with the lead. She said in last night's episode she even had to fight to get past Peter kissing multiple people, which has always been a big part of the show. This is why I have to wonder if she wanted to use her role on the show as a platform for other things, but she fell down the "love" rabbit hole, just like lots of others do. Madi probably never thought it would come to this, and now she's fighting what she values in a relationship. She even said Peter was "worth" the fight.

 

[Lehuaann]

To be fair, the contestants do not know who they are competing for during casting and only find out right before filming.

After Colton, I’m sure the producers did everything in their power to secure another virgin on the show. There is no telling what they told Madison...probably said it was Tyler.

You can tell Madison was there for love and humbly (imo) believed she was the front runner. She kept a low profile and stayed sweet throughout the season. I was shocked when Peter took her to his parent’s vow renewal. That was huge, and his family seemed to really adore her. Once he told her he was in love with her, I’m sure that was the only reason she stayed on...hoping he would pull a Colton and dump the other girls, which could be why she gave her expectations going forward.

This guy was itching for a romp with the crazy girl who’s family he didn’t even meet; yet Madison was expected to accept an engagement. Nope. I bet Peter’s mom is pissed, lol

 

[nkereina]

To be fair, the contestants do not know who they are competing for during casting and only find out right before filming.

True, but my point is that the Bachelor has never been known for casting the type of man Madi has said she wants for herself. No one knows if they will get a Colton type or a Juan Pablo type. So why roll the dice if you're explicitly looking for someone of a certain caliber rooted in faith?

 

[jennyq87]

I was thinking about her motives for going on the show from a broader picture, like why she would even apply in the first place. Madi and her family have been vocal about her finding a spouse that leads the family in faith and upholds similar (evangelical) Christian values as her. There is nothing wrong that that, but the Bachelor isn't exactly known for casting those kinds of people. Its a reality TV show broadcast in mainstream media. Heck, there's an entire episode dedicated (indirectly) to premarital sex with the lead. She said in last night's episode she even had to fight to get past Peter kissing multiple people, which has always been a big part of the show. This is why I have to wonder if she wanted to use her role on the show as a platform for other things, but she fell down the "love" rabbit hole, just like lots of others do. Madi probably never thought it would come to this, and now she's fighting what she values in a relationship. She even said Peter was "worth" the fight.

Sorry, I wasn't attacking your point of view specifically. I don't totally disagree with your take. I've just seen a lot of the "why go on the show" and I don't think it's completely fair because we also have to remember that we don't know how she got on the show. Producers often actively seek people out. "Come on the show, travel, build your brand for the charities you work with, there are other Coltons coming, you'll be a fan favorite" -- who knows what they lure them in with. As you mentioned, and I agree with, I think a lot of these contestants sign up looking for a unique opportunity and happen to get caught up and actually fall in love.

And as far as the values difference -- I don't think that being religious/having faith is synonymous with abstinence. It might be for her, but she's not asking that of him in general, she's explaining how his actions would impact her in this particular scenario. I'm a person of faith, but I didn't wait for marriage. It doesn't mean I don't have Christian values or can't uphold faithful values in my family. And I feel similarly about Peter. Just because he has sex doesn't mean he doesn't have the ability to lead a religious household (in my opinion). She had the conversation with Peter about faith and how important it was to her. He made it seem like they were on the same page. And like I said, I don't think it's necessarily a sex/values conflict. I think it's a sex timeline conflict coupled with the fact that Madison believed (whether true or not) that she was the front-runner at the time. Just my take, of course!

 

[Lehuaann]

True, but my point is that the Bachelor has never been known for casting the type of man Madi has said she wants for herself. No one knows if they will get a Colton type or a Juan Pablo type. So why roll the dice if you're explicitly looking for someone of a certain caliber rooted in faith?

We posted at approx the exact same time, so I didn’t get to read your post...

I believe the producers wanted another virgin storyline. Not sure if Madison applied or maybe someone who knew someone got her there, like Kelley the attorney. I’m sure once Madison showed up for casting, the producers told her what she wanted to hear. Not necessarily competing for a virgin, but someone with honorable qualities (like Mike/Tyler, not a Juan Pablo). I’m with you in that she probably wasn’t expecting to fall down the hole

 

[robinb]

Totally agree with this. I completely respect Madison and her decisions, and I think she has conveyed them eloquently and without shaming others. BUT, she needed to make these beliefs more clear to Peter (and much earlier on) if they were so important to her. I don't think he had the full context he needed in order to go into fantasy suite nights. Not saying that would have had an impact on his actions, but it might have.

Exactly. She was too wishy-washy after the rose ceremony. She should have been much more direct that him having sex with someone else in the Nookie Suite would be a deal breaker for her. NOT after he had already had possibly problematic dates with the other two women. It’s like it was a semi-secret challenge for him. If he loved her, he would take her rose ceremony words to heart and voluntarily abstain even though she had not told him that she loved him. She was a doofus for not making things crystal clear.

He went ahead and had sex with at least one of the women and then turned all blubbery and pleading when he realized he messed up. If she was really that important to him he should have also been more direct after the rose ceremony and told her that he was falling in love. If she was his F1, then he was a doofus for satisfying his libido and hoping that it would be okay with Madison.

 

[robinb]

True, but my point is that the Bachelor has never been known for casting the type of man Madi has said she wants for herself. No one knows if they will get a Colton type or a Juan Pablo type. So why roll the dice if you're explicitly looking for someone of a certain caliber rooted in faith?

Sean Lowe was very religious. IIRC he did not have sex in the Nookie Suite with anyone.

 

[jennyq87]

Exactly. She was too wishy-washy after the rose ceremony. She should have been much more direct that him having sex with someone else in the Nookie Suite would be a deal breaker for her. NOT after he had already had possibly problematic dates with the other two women. It’s like it was a semi-secret challenge for him. If he loved her, he would take her rose ceremony words to heart and voluntarily abstain even though she had not told him that she loved him. She was a doofus for not making things crystal clear.

He went ahead and had sex with at least one of the women and then turned all blubbery and pleading when he realized he messed up. If she was really that important to him he should have also been more direct after the rose ceremony and told her that he was falling in love. If she was his F1, then he was a doofus for satisfying his libido and hoping that it would be okay with Madison.

100% Agree!

 

[Lehuaann]

Sean Lowe was very religious. IIRC he did not have sex in the Nookie Suite with anyone.

Yes, I kept thinking there was another besides Colton, which proves they have been known to cast these types

 

[nkereina]

Yes, I kept thinking there was another besides Colton, which proves they have been known to cast these types

That's two out of 22 seasons. I never said they DON'T cast that, just that its not their typical cast type. Regardless, its still strange to me that a strongly evangelical Christian girl would genuinely think she could find her husband through this medium. Two out of 22 seasons where the Bachelors were some type of religious are bad odds for the kind of husband Madi has said she wants.

To be clear, I'm not at all saying that Peter was right in his decisions - I agree that if Madi is his true final choice, he should have abstained. But by the same token, Madi could have been clearer, and perhaps this process isn't right for what she's looking for in her life. Hindsight is 20/20 for everyone involved.

 

[lisaviolet]

She's simply saying, "I'm going to have a hard time believing you truly love me if you had sex with 1 or 2 other women 6 days prior to proposing to me." I

Absolutely.

The timing as opposed to the sex

Valid for Maddie and weird on Peter's end.

I know it is a show but he keeps saying he is in love with three woman - WTH in my head - yet we hear he knew by week four. Don't get it.

I would hate to be his choice and keep hearing "I was in love with three women" in my head.

 

[lisaviolet]

So, I can see why she may not be as bothered by the four times in a windmill as she would by his intimacy with VF and HA.

I personally don't think the windmill has anything to do with her choices.

And I think you're right, that it is about where she thinks he is with her. Or should be.

Madi is very into missionary work, so perhaps being able to live the influencer lifestyle would give her a way to do more of that or create more exposure for the missions she works with.

Agree.

I absolutely think that she probably came on to promote herself. Just because it has a religious nature to it doesn't make it any different than others who see an opportunity.

Also. I can't deal with Hannah Ann. She's beautiful but I don't buy their chemistry

Me either.

You don't buy it because it doesn't exist.

She looks 15 which throws me off. And I feel like there is zero chemistry. I don't get his "I'm in love" with Hannah Ann at all. How can you be in love with someone when conversations seem so forced.

He went ahead and had sex with at least one of the women and then turned all blubbery and pleading when he realized he messed up. If she was really that important to him he should have also been more direct after the rose ceremony and told her that he was falling in love. If she was his F1, then he was a doofus for satisfying his libido and hoping that it would be okay with Madison.

Bang on.

His complaint was Madison never told him that she loved him. Is he not confident enough to see that it is there?

 

[robinb]

I know it is a show but he keeps saying he is in love with three woman yet we hear he knew by week three. Don't get it.

He's just saying that because the producers tell him to. Every one of them does it.

 

[lisaviolet]

ally agree with this. I completely respect Madison and her decisions, and I think she has conveyed them eloquently and without shaming others. BUT, she needed to make these beliefs more clear to Peter (and much earlier o

She did convey her stance eloquently by not shaming others. Shows her compassion for others' lives and feelings, hearing it all.

She just didn't do it early or clearly enough - perfectly put.

And as far as the values difference -- I don't think that being religious/having faith is synonymous with abstinence. It might be for her, but she's not asking that of him in general, she's explaining how his actions would impact her in this particular scenario. I'm a person of faith, but I didn't wait for marriage. It doesn't mean I don't have Christian values or can't uphold faithful values in my family. And I feel similarly about Peter. Just because he has sex doesn't mean he doesn't have the ability to lead a religious household (in my opinion). She had the conversation with Peter about faith and how important it was to her. He made it seem like they were on the same page. And like I said, I don't think it's necessarily a sex/values conflict. I think it's a sex timeline conflict coupled with the fact that Madison believed (whether true or not) that she was the front-runner at the time. Just my take, of course!

 

[lisaviolet]

He's just saying that because the producers tell him to. Every one of them does it.

I disagree Robin. I haven't heard anyone say they are in love with three people.

Falling for, can see a life etc.

But in love with all three overnight dates?

 

[jennyq87]

I know it is a show but he keeps saying he is in love with three woman - WTH in my head - yet we hear he knew by week four. Don't get it.

This! I felt like I had heard this somewhere, too, and I think it's why I'm feeling defensive of Madison? (Here I am assuming she's his final choice). But say it is her. And he did know by week 4. But was still intimate with the other two just because he could be.. how do you accept that? "I wanna be with you in the end, but let me hook up with these other two beautiful women just for fun first" - not cool. And I guess that's the perspective I projected onto her, lol. I would be more accepting of his decision/actions if I hadn't heard about him knowing by week 4 -- and that he needed to explore all of the relationships more because he was unsure -- but that context just makes it seem dirty.

 

[robinb]

I disagree Robin. I haven't heard anyone say they are in love with three people.

Falling for, can see a life etc.

But in love with all three overnight dates?

It's all the same to me. They always talk about how much they "love" the F2 or F3 and muse on how hard of a decision it will be.